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There seems to be a great deal of animosity towards the Yuuzhan Vong for a variety of reasons ( I wont argue with these various points now, its not the point.)

Any ways, say that instead of presuing the Vong plot, LFL approached you and told you that you could construct a ten to twenty book plot line that would pick up at the same point the real NJO did. They say you can have full freedom with the plot line, but there are a few guide lines:

-At some point in the course of the series, a major film character must die (more may die if you wish.)

-The threat posed must be of a Galactic Scale, and there has to be signifcant political and cultural upset to the SW galaxy (ie a war of a greater scale than the Clone Wars.)

-The Jedi must be faced with a threat that they have difficulty dealing with (force-null, other force users, droids, etc.)


What story would you presue? Who would you kill off? Just how much better are you than the dozen odd professional authors who wrote the real NJO?

This meant as a writing challenge or as a Q&A thing? I figure I'll treat it as both. It gives me more incentive to finish my current NJO replacement fic series.

Pure Sabacc wrote:Any ways, say that instead of presuing the Vong plot, LFL approached you and told you that you could construct a ten to twenty book plot line that would pick up at the same point the real NJO did.

I'm already trying to write a fanfic series along this line. I have been for the past year or two.

What story would you presue?

My favorite idea is an Imperial Resurgence, led by a Sith Lord (perhaps a PT Jedi who was driven to the Dark Side by the Purge?). As the Resurgency tries to resurrect the 'Glorious Empire', the Jedi, New Republic (and allies) and the Remnant fight back. Somehow, they even gain access to an old Clone War-era weapons cache with everything for small-arms to vehicles.

Who would you kill off?

I figure, for my fic, that I'll off Chewie as he tries to protect an unconscious Jacen. And when Jacen comes to, the loss opens him to the Dark Side. Maybe another Jedi to drive home his fall.

Just how much better are you than the dozen odd professional authors who wrote the real NJO?

I guess I'll have to wait till I finish my fic to actually find out.

This was meant more as a slightly more reasonable way for describing their grivences with the NJO; rather than "NJO suxxors" one would write "Well, if I could have wrote it..."

But if you wish it to be a fic prompt, sure, run with it.

As I said, I've already been writing this fic series for a long time so it's not really a prompt, per se. More like an incentive. If I can top the real NJO, then I know for a fact that I'm a passable writer, at worst.

Anyway, I've had no real complaint about the NJO but that doesn't mean that I don't think that I could a bit better.

It's easier to have one man write a series than a variety of writers. The series becomes one man's vision rather than several different people's views on the same thing. That is the NJO's one real flaw: it has too many people behind the scenes.

It's easier to have one man write a series than a variety of writers. The series becomes one man's vision rather than several different people's views on the same thing.

Very true. I can only imagine what LotR would be like if Tolkien only wrote Fellowship and then passed the rest off to different writers.

You can't really write the NJO without the Vong and still call it the NJO. IT would be something completely different. It would be like the Battle of Endor without the DSII or the Emperor.

That said, I think that the idea of Jacen becoming an Imperial leader and falling to the Darkside as a result of the tragic deaths of his parents during diplomatic negotiations has considerable appeal. Then have the NR collapse and a new organization form from the NR remnants, the CSA, hutt space, and the Ssi-Ruuk. Maybe have the Chiss join the EMpire. Start off with something like the Camaas document causeing great internal strife in the Republic and then the Empire reestablishing order and peace to the galaxy with the gelp of the Sith and a secret cloning project in the outer RIm. Then have the new organization fight for its life against the Empire and be relegated to a few systems in the Ssi-Ruuk star cluster, Wild Space, the deep Core, and the Tingel Arm. Don't bring in much Dark Jedi involvement besides Jacen, and maybe Jaina too. No mention of superweapons, although a cool traditional flagship (maybe 50 kilometers long) would be in order. The flagship is called the Executor, it leads Death Squadron, and it is commanded by Jacen personally. Make Jacen adopt the armor (minus helmet and life support gear) of Vader, have him fly a modified TIE Advanced X1, and have him used a Sith lightsaber similer to Vader's. Basically make Jacen someone who respects and honors Darth Vader's memory.

I didn't mind the general story arc of NJO. What got me, was that pretty much the middle half in not 2/3's of the books centered away from the war and put the characters in ridiculous situations where it would have been much easier and better to just depict them in the damn war you've created for the tension and the bad guys.

I didn't mind the Vong too much either, just the uber bio-tech started to go way to far. If they would have stuck with say; metalic yet organic shaped ship hulls and inside they've brought their home world along with em so interiors were 'organic' in that there were plants and 'wildlife' every where, I'd be more game about them.

But really, living underware and living staff's able to deflect lightsabers? Bah! With a little imagination, you could have had armor from uber-scant beast hide. Or a staff made from 'blackwood' or some such. Don't need to have it fucking alive.

But really, living underware and living staff's able to deflect lightsabers? Bah! With a little imagination, you could have had armor from uber-scant beast hide. Or a staff made from 'blackwood' or some such. Don't need to have it fucking alive.

So its better if it is already dead?! Thats even stupider. ANd Vondum Crab armor and Amphistaffs supposedly give off em fields that block lightsabers or something like that.

metalic yet organic shaped ship hulls and inside they've brought their home world along with em so interiors were 'organic' in that there were plants and 'wildlife' every where,

You mean like a cross between Mon Cals and Andalite Dome ships?

Trooper TK12746 wrote:You can't really write the NJO without the Vong and still call it the NJO. IT would be something completely different. It would be like the Battle of Endor without the DSII or the Emperor.

That said, I think that the idea of Jacen becoming an Imperial leader and falling to the Darkside as a result of the tragic deaths of his parents during diplomatic negotiations has considerable appeal. Then have the NR collapse and a new organization form from the NR remnants, the CSA, hutt space, and the Ssi-Ruuk. Maybe have the Chiss join the EMpire. Start off with something like the Camaas document causeing great internal strife in the Republic and then the Empire reestablishing order and peace to the galaxy with the gelp of the Sith and a secret cloning project in the outer RIm. Then have the new organization fight for its life against the Empire and be relegated to a few systems in the Ssi-Ruuk star cluster, Wild Space, the deep Core, and the Tingel Arm. Don't bring in much Dark Jedi involvement besides Jacen, and maybe Jaina too. No mention of superweapons, although a cool traditional flagship (maybe 50 kilometers long) would be in order. The flagship is called the Executor, it leads Death Squadron, and it is commanded by Jacen personally. Make Jacen adopt the armor (minus helmet and life support gear) of Vader, have him fly a modified TIE Advanced X1, and have him used a Sith lightsaber similer to Vader's. Basically make Jacen someone who respects and honors Darth Vader's memory.

There are a lot of psychics on this board. A couple of those ideas, I just started toying with last week. Like Jacen believing that Vader was the one Jedi to learn the truth: not the Jedi truth or the Sith truth, his own truth. Even adopting his armor.

And I figure, when the Sith are around, you don't need any kind of superweapon. The Sith are enough in that capacity.

Also, superweapons can be barely acceptable if the Leader of the bad guys is more of a scientific or engineering genius than a tactical, strategic or political genius. Of course, he should have advisors for the roles he is not suited for.

I've always had an idea that an Imperial admiral during the pre-fall times discovered the construction of the second Death Star and chipped off about 3% of the cost to build a massive fleet with which to find and crush the rebellion. The emperor found out, and he fled into the Unknown regions, where, with his already substantial fleet, he threw in with another alien empire and took over.
Now, with the largest fleet in the galaxy, he finally enacts his invasion plan and launches a blitz against the Corellian Trade Spine.

Fankly, I'd have Han die in a sneak attack against the Neo-Empire's primary resource depots to stall them from their attack on Corellia.

As a threat to the jedi... Perhaps the race he threw in with is null in the Force.

Reduce the number of books from 19 to 10 or so. A 19-book series (with, what, 14 different authors?) is just begging for trouble. This eliminates a lot of the dead time we saw in the NJO, where very little happened, the Vong were not developed and remained aliens of the week, and some books (like Star by Star) had to cram a ridiculous amount of action in to keep the ball rolling.

Likewise, maintain a firmer grip on the authors writing to ensure that the above imbalance in books doesn't happen. Book series where you can read 6 or 7 out of 19 and still get the gist of the whole storyline are crap series.

Now, for the Vong.

Eliminate the biotech idea. Completely. Make the Vong ultratechnological instead so that despite smaller numbers, they are able to hammer the Republic when numericaly matched. Keep some of the honor ideas. Eliminate the cliched "infidels" idea. Make the amphistaves the Vong equivalent of a lightsaber, eliminate the idea that they can't be affected by the Force, and make any Vong wielding and amphistaff a Force user. This gives the Jedi a hard-hitting opponent that they can't take lightly. Make the Vong intergalactic Huns that ravage and destroy, when they can, and blackmail the hell out of people when they can't.

As for the New Republic.

Eliminate the intercine squabbles we saw throught the NJO. It doesn't make for drama, only annoyance. Make the New Republic the bastian of freedom and democracy that it was supposed to be, having risen above its earlier troubles to take its rightful place in history.

Keep Chewie's death. Have Han start lashing out at the Vong because of it and causing a split between him and Luke when he encourages his children to do the same.

So, you still want to bring in a yet unheard of alien race? Why not just use the Chiss led by Imperials?

Trooper TK12746 wrote:So, you still want to bring in a yet unheard of alien race? Why not just use the Chiss led by Imperials?

Because the Imperial threat is DONE TO DEATH. Over and over in the EU, we see someone scream 'The Empire will rise again!' haul out some big weapon or insidious plan, and get creamed. YES, bring in something completely new and fresh. The Vong had a couple of great ideas behind them, but their execution was poor as shit.

Kuja, I have to admit, that is a damn good idea. The only way I would modify your idea is to keep a small biotech element, like say keep the Dovin Bassals, but use them to augement regular tech instead of being their regular tech (shield strippers, terror weapons, etc.)

This is not to say I didnt like the NJO as is, but it could have been done differently and just as well, or better.

The Empire is really hard to eradicate though, even the Remnant is relatively powerful given their small size. And why not use the Chiss and give them Dovin Basals, we didn't know enough about them prior NJO to rule it out. They could have been a challenging enemy.

Kuja, I have to admit, that is a damn good idea. The only way I would modify your idea is to keep a small biotech element, like say keep the Dovin Bassals, but use them to augement regular tech instead of being their regular tech (shield strippers, terror weapons, etc.)

Why make it biotech at all? Make it an insidious technological development the the Vong engineered precisely to hit below the belt. Just get rid of the biobabble.

Trooper TK12746 wrote:The Empire is really hard to eradicate though, even the Remnant is relatively powerful given their small size. And why not use the Chiss and give them Dovin Basals, we didn't know enough about them prior NJO to rule it out. They could have been a challenging enemy.

Everyone knows that if the Remnant tried to stand up to the Republic, it would get crushed. It's a matter of sheer numbers. And having the Chiss pull a superweapon out of their ass is just rehashing bad novels like The New Rebellion and Darksaber.

That's why an extragalactic foe isn't such a bad idea. Just think of the amount of effort needed to move an entire civilization from galaxy to galaxy! It's mind-boggling! And having all that force bearing down on the Republic makes for a great face-off between the entrenched home forces and the attacking legions.

Quote:
Kuja, I have to admit, that is a damn good idea. The only way I would modify your idea is to keep a small biotech element, like say keep the Dovin Bassals, but use them to augement regular tech instead of being their regular tech (shield strippers, terror weapons, etc.)


Why make it biotech at all? Make it an insidious technological development the the Vong engineered precisely to hit below the belt. Just get rid of the biobabble.

I suppose it could just be some kind of artifically contained singularity or something. It doesnt really matter, I just like the idea of the Bassals.

I like the idea of an Imperial taking a small task force or such with him into the Unknown Regions and subjugate a few alien races to form his own little empire.

In my own fic series, I have the Remnant torn between joining the Resurgence to reclaim the galaxy, or helping the Republic, who they have a treaty with, IIRC. As the war drags on, their choice becomes more and more critical.

Using Imperials, they already know their way around the galaxy. They know what's valuable, what isn't and where to really put the hurt.

If I'm missing something, either for or against, please tell me.

ne knows that if the Remnant tried to stand up to the Republic, it would get crushed. It's a matter of sheer numbers. And having the Chiss pull a superweapon out of their ass is just rehashing bad novels like The New Rebellion and Darksaber.

The Chiss don't need a superweapon, just mighty fleets. They have ruled the unknown regions for a significant length of time and have had close ties with teh Empire (giving them IMperial tech and knowledge). They could take on the NR. And it gives the Chiss a homeworld so they can actually lose. An extragalactic civilization can just retreat across the galaxy until they run out of ships.

One problem with having the Chiss is you would be violating the 'Chiss don't attack first' rule writtien down in 'Vision of the Future' by Zahn. It's out of character for them to go on the offensive.

Have the NR accidently violate Chiss space. Make the Chiss extremely sensitive. Maybe have the Remnant egging them on, even actively assisting them.

Pure Sabacc wrote: -At some point in the course of the series, a major film character must die (more may die if you wish.)

I might well refuse. If I re-did the NJO, I would argue to my last against such trite "Take em serious! They killed chewie!" shit. If characters are going to die, it's going to be for a better reason than to make the enemy look serious. If the plot requires a character death, it might be well done, but I never liked the Death of Chewbacca.

(ie a war of a greater scale than the Clone Wars.)

Why? The real NJO wasn't.

-The Jedi must be faced with a threat that they have difficulty dealing with (force-null, other force users, droids, etc.)

It's called numbers. Force-null opponents suck in so many ways.

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A benevolent empire ruled by a race of force users (largely light-siders too, Peace and Justice taken to the extreme. I'd never get away with it, but it'd be a severe laugh to have them be Yoda's race, and have Yoda have been a dissident who left long ago.), extremely limited in numbers, with most people in their empire not even seeing such recluses in person, doubting they exist. In a military sense they'd be served by droid armies unlike anything seen before, and for that matter, either non-sentient or considered Subjects. Possibly link them in as the Centerpoint builders and so forth.

One difference however, would be to show positive upsides to being their slaves. Massive improvements in the standard of living, in exchange for giving up freedom. I hate to say it, but it would be tempting to revisit Tatooine - with the smaller star snuffed out and the planet terraformed into a fertile world, and the hutts utterly run off the planet.

So we have a benevolent intergalactic dictatorship, with a small Expeditionary force of a few thousand ships coming to the GFFA. Present it in such a way that some readers go one way, and others, another.

Maybe, just to add another spin, have them force (comparative. IE, the same legal rights as anyone else) emancipation (as opposed to destruction) of sentient droids in their territory. It makes an interesting concept of course, as the Outer Rim, who can't afford principles, capitulates and collaborates quickly to the Epeditionary Force.

The idea behind it would be that the Light Side can create evil in the same way the Dark Side can. They're both (YMMV) reflections of the intent of one's actions. In that respect, you can take people's freedom away, because you know what's best for them, as easily, perhaps easier, than you can for your own UNLIMITED POWER!

I might well refuse. If I re-did the NJO, I would argue to my last against such trite "Take em serious! They killed chewie!" shit. If characters are going to die, it's going to be for a better reason than to make the enemy look serious. If the plot requires a character death, it might be well done, but I never liked the Death of Chewbacca.

The point of this directive would be towards stirring up the SW galaxy (that was clearly becoming very stagnant in the EU, the NR and all.) A character death might not be a necessity, but it would seem like a likely eventual occurance (although perhaps not in the first book.)

Why? The real NJO wasn't.

Really? That was the way I saw it. Any ways, its more of the impact that the war has than the scale itself. What I was trying to say is that the war should be of galaxy changing significance, not another Dalaa run (of course, the Clone Wars, though a fabrication, were very changing, so I suppose it was a bad example.)

It's called numbers. Force-null opponents suck in so many ways.

The point here would be to provide the Jedi with a new challenge, something they hadnt encountered before (or at least not for a very long time.) I suppose this would necessitiate any special feature about all of their opponents (note: I specially said that it wasnt necissary for them to be force null) but a few specialized foes (Dark Jedi, jedi killers of some sort, etc.) would make for a more varied story.

As I understand it: The CIS Armada had millions of capital ships (RotS ICS). The Vong had, AFIK, maybe a few hundred thousand. The Clone Wars were the bigger spectacle, they were just cut short.

NecronLord wrote:As I understand it: The CIS Armada had millions of capital ships (RotS ICS). The Vong had, AFIK, maybe a few hundred thousand. The Clone Wars were the bigger spectacle, they were just cut short.

I'm not entirely sure about Vong fleet figures, but you may be correct.

As I said, its more impact than implimentation that's important.

Edit: Spelling