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We know that General Grievous's henchmen carry staffs which are able to withstand several lightsaber blows. So with that in mind could these type of weapons be built?

1). Same type of staff, but with a blaster at the end. Only to be used when the staff actually clashes with the lightsaber, so that weapon is discharged from almost point blank range.

2) A shield with a built in blaster (inspired from the Doctor Who episode "underworld"). Use the same material for the shield that we use for the staff, but have a hole in it where we fire the blaster. Have these shields similar to size to the shields Roman legionnaries carried. Fire away.

They could be built but the shield will slow you down which is bad against a Jedi. He jumps over you and by by head

Are you talking about weapons humans would use, or some sort of Magnadroid equivalent? Because in the case of humans, Jedi pre-cog and superhuman speed will easily bypass both 1 and 2. Average Joe Skywalker simply doesn't have the reflexes or strength to put put much of a fight with either of these weapons. Also, for 1., what happens if part of that energy bounces right back into the wielder?
The shield with the blaster idea could probably be useful for a Magnadroid, though.

The staff are made from Phrik alloy (first appearance is in the Dark Forces game, I believe), and also relies on some sort of electromagnetic field system. IIRC, Phrik is pretty expensive/resource intensive.

Yeah, phrik allow is as expensive as hell to make, so forgot about mass producing these things. I suppose a regular staff with a forcefield wrapped around the main part of it would work and have the same general effect.

Captain tycho wrote:Are you talking about weapons humans would use, or some sort of Magnadroid equivalent?

Both

Captain tycho wrote:Because in the case of humans, Jedi pre-cog and superhuman speed will easily bypass both 1 and 2. Average Joe Skywalker simply doesn't have the reflexes or strength to put put much of a fight with either of these weapons.

Ok, in an open field, average joe would get slaughtered. How about in the corridors of ships, where a few average Joes together can only be "outflanked" from above. And what would happen if we equip the soldiers with 2 shields, one to cover the front and one to cover the top like Roman Legions.

Captain tycho wrote: Also, for 1., what happens if part of that energy bounces right back into the wielder?

Well the idea is to fire, from close range, ie say after the jedi has used their lightsaber to block your staff.

Humans get utterly slaughtered in close combat with a Jedi, period. They simply do not have the reflexes to come even close to a Jedi's speed.

As for the corridor situation, all the Jedi has to do is use make a big shove with the Force to clear them out or stun them, then move in and cut them down. Of course, it depends on the distance between them when they first sight each other. Since distances in starship corridors are usually quite short, the human shield wall won't have to time to form up before the Jedi starts slicing them up, unless they're already in postion. Then, the shield-wall could probably put a stop to the Jedi without much trouble.

The usage of these shields is pretty situational, and it wouldn't be worth investing in fancy phrik alloy shields for shipboard defense, considering the phrik would cost more than the ship they're defending in many cases.


However, if we give this stuff to Magnadroids, it could probably do some real nasty shit.

Captain tycho wrote:However, if we give this stuff to Magnadroids, it could probably do some real nasty shit.

Then again, it might be better to simply armour Magnadroids with Phrik alloy, making it harder for a Jedi to "borrow" one of these shields then using it against its previous owner.

Lord of the Farce wrote:

Captain tycho wrote:However, if we give this stuff to Magnadroids, it could probably do some real nasty shit.

Then again, it might be better to simply armour Magnadroids with Phrik alloy, making it harder for a Jedi to "borrow" one of these shields then using it against its previous owner.

Well, yes. Phrik-armored Magnadroids would be something evil.
But just imagine the cost *shudders*.

Is this "Phrik" supposed to be unaffected by lightsabres, or only more resistant to them than other metals? Because it's not hard to imagine that some materials would be harder to cut than others; even a lightsabre must bow to the laws of physics on some level. But the idea of a material that's completely immune to lightsabres is simply absurd; anything that can reduce a blast door to a puddle should fuck up whatever it touches, and based only on the film, the staffs could have easily incorporated some kind of forcefield to make the lightsabre blades bounce off.

I highly doubt that phrik is somehow magically 'immune' to lightsabers. It's most likely a material that's overwhelmingly resistant to heat and other effects, and would require a long period of contact with a lightsaber to be melted. It's been forever since I've played Dark Forces, so I really can't say for sure.

Darth Wong wrote:Is this "Phrik" supposed to be unaffected by lightsabres, or only more resistant to them than other metals? Because it's not hard to imagine that some materials would be harder to cut than others; even a lightsabre must bow to the laws of physics on some level. But the idea of a material that's completely immune to lightsabres is simply absurd; anything that can reduce a blast door to a puddle should fuck up whatever it touches, and based only on the film, the staffs could have easily incorporated some kind of forcefield to make the lightsabre blades bounce off.

"Phrik alloy" is tough, but not invulnerable. Sustained blaster fire from a single person can bring down droids using "Phrik" armour... Though the NEGTC does note that this particular person (Kyle Katarn) seems to make a habit of carrying half a dozen weapons at a time.

And from the novelisation quote that Vympel provided on page 19 of the "ROTS Revelations page for main site" thread, the Magnaguard's staff weapon does include "energy field impervious to light" in its design, though the novelisation is ambiguous enough that the impervious "energy field" could actually just mean the ends of the weapons - i.e. the material of the staff can withstand lightsabres for a short time, the "purple electric" ends can withstand lightsabres indefinitely - which would support the apparent focus on "Phrik" in the ROTS:VD.

Would any of the following anti-jedi solutions work?

Off-the-shelf
"Parry this, jedi scum!"
-flamethrower
-fully automatic shotgun
-an RPG with fragmentation rounds
-products from this company http://www.metalstorm.com/

Bespoke Jedi-killer
A fuel aerosol. Ignites on contact with light sabre.

If we go by the Clone wars cartoon, deflecting normal physical projectiles (flak, flamethrowers- Durge vs Obi-Wan) is a lot easier than deflecting blaster bolts, they dont even need a lighsaber for it.

Right - that wipes out all the off-the-shelf solutions.

What about the fuel aerosol? The idea was to have a big cloud of fuel vapour which would envelop the jedi and saturate the atmosphere in the room.

Zornhau wrote:Right - that wipes out all the off-the-shelf solutions.

What about the fuel aerosol? The idea was to have a big cloud of fuel vapour which would envelop the jedi and saturate the atmosphere in the room.

The KOTOR 2 game has a crimelord try this on the main character who simply raises a bubble of force energy around himself. (not sure if this counts as a canon ability though).
The jedi could also possibly push away the gas with "force push", Jedi are supposed to use a lightsaber as a last resort not as an axe to break down doors.

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Zornhau wrote:Right - that wipes out all the off-the-shelf solutions.

What about the fuel aerosol? The idea was to have a big cloud of fuel vapour which would envelop the jedi and saturate the atmosphere in the room.

The KOTOR 2 game has a crimelord try this on the main character who simply raises a bubble of force energy around himself. (not sure if this counts as a canon ability though).
The jedi could also possibly push away the gas with "force push", Jedi are supposed to use a lightsaber as a last resort not as an axe to break down doors.

Yes, but in an enclosed space that just creates turbulence, sucking more of the gas in. Unless they can selectively push molecules.

Har, already mentioned that about Phrik here.

Cyke wrote:I'm guessing it simply takes a lot of energy to break the bonds in Phrik. A lightsaber can probably cut through it, but so slowly that for the intent of a momentary impact in combat, it's solid to a lightsaber blade.

Lightsabers obviously have a limit to their power output, hence the wielder of a lightsaber would feel physical resistance when cutting through extremely dense materials with strong interatomic bonds, since the blade sure doesn't deform.
Also note that contact between lightsabers and Phrik staffs was all momentary.

It still has to be a good deal stronger than the blast doors Qui-Gon was cutting through; Qui-Gon was cutting through a volume roughly equal to the full length of the blade multiplied by the blade's cross-sectional area, and the saber was still making progress. Meanwhile the electrostaffs only had a tiny surface being cut, but the saber blades made even slower progress than against the blast doors.
Of course, as has been said, Phrik is extremely expensive to extract and process, compared to the cheaper material from which you'd expect huge blast doors to be composed of.

Also, I conjecture that although the shaft of the electrostaffs did not glow, they may have been using the same application of shield technology that Obi-Wan's Delta-7 in AotC used, where the shield is projected within the surface of the material.


I'm sure there's a great deal of weapon designs that could be purpose-built to counter the standard Jedi tactics. Heck, General Grievous could be said to be such a weapon, and he's supposed to have one hell of a record.
Droidekas didn't do too shabilly either, although as with the two peculiar weapon designs mentioned in the OP, I'm led to wonder why the Jedi won't or can't use TK to nullify the threat.

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Zornhau wrote:Right - that wipes out all the off-the-shelf solutions.

What about the fuel aerosol? The idea was to have a big cloud of fuel vapour which would envelop the jedi and saturate the atmosphere in the room.

The KOTOR 2 game has a crimelord try this on the main character who simply raises a bubble of force energy around himself. (not sure if this counts as a canon ability though).
The jedi could also possibly push away the gas with "force push", Jedi are supposed to use a lightsaber as a last resort not as an axe to break down doors.

If you're referring to the scene involving Visquis' attempt at luring out Goto, then I think you may have misunderstood it - it was poison gas that was used, and the Exile survived through the use of a Jedi technique that temporarily eliminated the need to breathe. (I don't know how this was supposed to affect toxins that are absorbed through the skin, but it did anyway.) Such a technique would be useless against a fuel aerosol, since that doesn't require the Jedi to breathe it in.

Cykeisme wrote:Har, already mentioned that about Phrik here.

Cyke wrote:I'm guessing it simply takes a lot of energy to break the bonds in Phrik. A lightsaber can probably cut through it, but so slowly that for the intent of a momentary impact in combat, it's solid to a lightsaber blade.

Lightsabers obviously have a limit to their power output, hence the wielder of a lightsaber would feel physical resistance when cutting through extremely dense materials with strong interatomic bonds, since the blade sure doesn't deform.
Also note that contact between lightsabers and Phrik staffs was all momentary.

It still has to be a good deal stronger than the blast doors Qui-Gon was cutting through; Qui-Gon was cutting through a volume roughly equal to the full length of the blade multiplied by the blade's cross-sectional area, and the saber was still making progress. Meanwhile the electrostaffs only had a tiny surface being cut, but the saber blades made even slower progress than against the blast doors.
Of course, as has been said, Phrik is extremely expensive to extract and process, compared to the cheaper material from which you'd expect huge blast doors to be composed of.

Also, I conjecture that although the shaft of the electrostaffs did not glow, they may have been using the same application of shield technology that Obi-Wan's Delta-7 in AotC used, where the shield is projected within the surface of the material.


I'm sure there's a great deal of weapon designs that could be purpose-built to counter the standard Jedi tactics. Heck, General Grievous could be said to be such a weapon, and he's supposed to have one hell of a record.
Droidekas didn't do too shabilly either, although as with the two peculiar weapon designs mentioned in the OP, I'm led to wonder why the Jedi won't or can't use TK to nullify the threat.

I think that against the Droidekas, Jedi could not use TK because a) there was too much hostile fire to be able to concentrate on attacking withough getting Swiss Cheesed, and b) possibly they can't reach through the force field to 'reach' to the droid inside;if they also can't get a 'grip' on the frictionless surface of the force field, TK would be useless unless the shield went down.

I'm leaning more towards option (a), though.

As I recall, the way the Exile dealt with the gas in KOTOR 2 was he formed a Force "bubble" that repelled the gas. Obviously, this kind of stunt would take an incredible amount of concentration, especially in battle, but the Exile was extremely powerful. As to Phrik Magnadroids, they'd work wonders in close combat against Jedi, but they'd cost a planet to actually make, and they still aren't impervious to being tossed off a cliff by a good TK or smashed to bits by a falling container.

Darth Wong wrote:Is this "Phrik" supposed to be unaffected by lightsabres, or only more resistant to them than other metals? Because it's not hard to imagine that some materials would be harder to cut than others; even a lightsabre must bow to the laws of physics on some level. But the idea of a material that's completely immune to lightsabres is simply absurd; anything that can reduce a blast door to a puddle should fuck up whatever it touches, and based only on the film, the staffs could have easily incorporated some kind of forcefield to make the lightsabre blades bounce off.

ever heard of costris ore?(the 2nd Thrawn Trilogie)

Lex wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Is this "Phrik" supposed to be unaffected by lightsabres, or only more resistant to them than other metals? Because it's not hard to imagine that some materials would be harder to cut than others; even a lightsabre must bow to the laws of physics on some level. But the idea of a material that's completely immune to lightsabres is simply absurd; anything that can reduce a blast door to a puddle should fuck up whatever it touches, and based only on the film, the staffs could have easily incorporated some kind of forcefield to make the lightsabre blades bounce off.

ever heard of costris ore?(the 2nd Thrawn Trilogie)

Cortosis Ore can also be cut through by lightsabers, it just takes an extremely long time.

Lex wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Is this "Phrik" supposed to be unaffected by lightsabres, or only more resistant to them than other metals? Because it's not hard to imagine that some materials would be harder to cut than others; even a lightsabre must bow to the laws of physics on some level. But the idea of a material that's completely immune to lightsabres is simply absurd; anything that can reduce a blast door to a puddle should fuck up whatever it touches, and based only on the film, the staffs could have easily incorporated some kind of forcefield to make the lightsabre blades bounce off.

ever heard of costris ore?(the 2nd Thrawn Trilogie)

Cortsis isn't immune. It gets cuts fine until it shuts the sabre down. Due to funky ditritus circuit overloading. If you could build i lightsabre without said circuit Cortsis would do no better than anything else

Oh and by' 2nd thrawn trilogie' You mean the Hand of Thrawn Duology.

OK. Reading back up this thread, jedi can't deflect blaster bolts with PK.

So, I tape 4 blasters together and have them fire off a single trigger. A square pattern of 4 bolts arrive simultaneously. Light sabre should be able to parry no more than 2 at a time. Would that work?


Another thought: can jedi do both the precog light sabre parry and the PK shield thing at the same time?

If not, 2 nasty ideas:

#1. Blaster/SMG combo: Uses laser range finder and onboard computer to simultaneousy deliver blaster bolt and explosive slug to jedi target. Contact with the beam sets off the HE charge in the slug.


#2. Blaster/Light-sabre-seeking Missile Launcher: As above, but each pull of the trigger releases a cheap missile which seeks out the light sabre beam.