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Now I am already on shaky ground quoting a novel I have never read but it struck me as I was writing something for Twilight War. In TPM Novelization as I understand it the statement is made that lightsabers have not been crossed in anger in over 1,000 years until Naboo. If this is true how does that handle things like Dark Jedi and the like. Are we to believe there have not been any lightsaber dueling in the Order for 1,000 years? Might this explain the highly stylized Form System and why Palpatine and the Sith always have an edge in dueling against Jedi because the Order are so out of practice, usually only dueling against each other in ritualized combat while the Sith play dirty and to win?

If true, wouldn't the Sith suffer from the same handicap? No Jedi vs. Sith matches for a millennia, means no real chance to hone their skills in combat for either side for a millennia.

All it means is that for a thousand years, the Sith have been in hiding. There haven't been any Jedi vs Sith duels during this time frame. Which is why Mace Windu and the rest of the Jedi are so surprised about his account of his duel in the desert. It also makes sense given Maul's quote to Sidious: "At least we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." He isn't just talking about Sidious and himself personally, the fact that the Sith are still alive.

There have been many Sith over the course of the millenium, and the fact that the Sith code demands violance to advance, indicates that there has been infighting among the reigning two Sith. So they'd be in practice, whilst the Jedi would only have their sparring matches with each other to train.

Sir Sirius wrote:If true, wouldn't the Sith suffer from the same handicap? No Jedi vs. Sith matches for a millennia, means no real chance to hone their skills in combat for either side for a millennia.

If we are to believe that Sith overthrow other Sith in mortal combat (Palpatine killed his master in his sleep, perhaps he was not powerful enough to take Plagueus head on) then Sith lords would have some sort of mortal combat experience.

Still I find the claim (if true) to be a little absurd considering the dark Jedi that pop up every now and then and the fact that Qui Gon and Obi Wan didn't seem to have too much trouble actually dueling with Maul.

At the same time it can explain some of the formalized and flashy Jedi combat that we don't see in OT as Luke is doing things from scratch

Stravo wrote:Now I am already on shaky ground quoting a novel I have never read but it struck me as I was writing something for Twilight War. In TPM Novelization as I understand it the statement is made that lightsabers have not been crossed in anger in over 1,000 years until Naboo. If this is true how does that handle things like Dark Jedi and the like. Are we to believe there have not been any lightsaber dueling in the Order for 1,000 years? Might this explain the highly stylized Form System and why Palpatine and the Sith always have an edge in dueling against Jedi because the Order are so out of practice, usually only dueling against each other in ritualized combat while the Sith play dirty and to win?

Its an exaggeration. There have been documented dark Jedi and dark side marauders in the pre-TPM period. But none of them would have wielded their lightsabers in a dedicated saber-combat format; they'd all be derivatives of the more stylized and Jedi styles prevelent anyway. But when the Sith come around - they've been preparing to duel with Jedi, and they have the upper hand. No one has been training for that eventuality their whole career since the Sith were around.

The question is.. how would these Sith be "preparing to Duel Jedi" without fighting actual Jedi? They'd be sparring with each other, which (I assume) is what the Jedi also do themselves.

So why would the Sith have an advantage that way? Unless they are killing Jedi covertly in duels, it seems like they wouldn't have anymore practice.

Its not that at all; the Jedi do not prepare for saber-vs-saber duels much because they're so bloody rare, where as they're almost a guarenteed eventuality for a Sith. The Jedi practice deflection/defense techniques instead most of the time.

Stravo wrote:

Sir Sirius wrote:If true, wouldn't the Sith suffer from the same handicap? No Jedi vs. Sith matches for a millennia, means no real chance to hone their skills in combat for either side for a millennia.

If we are to believe that Sith overthrow other Sith in mortal combat (Palpatine killed his master in his sleep, perhaps he was not powerful enough to take Plagueus head on) then Sith lords would have some sort of mortal combat experience.

Still I find the claim (if true) to be a little absurd considering the dark Jedi that pop up every now and then and the fact that Qui Gon and Obi Wan didn't seem to have too much trouble actually dueling with Maul.

At the same time it can explain some of the formalized and flashy Jedi combat that we don't see in OT as Luke is doing things from scratch

One thing I have found in my own training is that to be effective one must have an open mind and apply the scientific method, if you will, to techniques. If you dont have a real fight to prove techniques, then the above is vital.
Perhaps the Jedi did become stagnant with so little sith/dark Jedi activity? With so little baddies around the experience is going to be few and far between with some 10 000 Jedi about.

I have also found that, and been taught that, when two combatants know the same moves then you have a stalemate and the fighting is not flashy and lasts a comparitivly long time.
The winner is the bigger and stronger combative in such a situation.

If one combatant knows less, the fighting ends very quickly, and the winner can be flashy or simple as he/she desires..

With regard to Luke vs Vader, I think the former applies more to ROTJ and the latter to ESB. One should remember that Vader considered Luke to be the most powerfull Jedi yet, and in ROTJ novelisation the emperor shows fear of Lukes potential. So perhaps Vader and Luke cancelled each other out?.
Besides, why fight with all that flashy BS? all it does wastes oxygen and is unnessary.

How exactly do the Jedi *know* that no Sabres have been crossed in anger? Perhaps the Sith always win.

Ah...... but Stravo, remember that there are more users of the lightsabre out there than Jedi and Sith. For example, Baron Tagge and of course, Obiwan own quote.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Kurgan wrote:The question is.. how would these Sith be "preparing to Duel Jedi" without fighting actual Jedi? They'd be sparring with each other, which (I assume) is what the Jedi also do themselves.

So why would the Sith have an advantage that way? Unless they are killing Jedi covertly in duels, it seems like they wouldn't have anymore practice.

Its not that at all; the Jedi do not prepare for saber-vs-saber duels much because they're so bloody rare, where as they're almost a guarenteed eventuality for a Sith. The Jedi practice deflection/defense techniques instead most of the time.

I'll add that what little saber-vs-saber duelling is taught to Jedi is bound to be poor in quality after 1000 years of not needing it. A Sith apprentice is learning how to kill an opponent, a padawan is just learning glowstick ballet aerobics.