StarDestroyer.Net BBS

1. Lancer Frigate
2. Loronar Strike Cruiser
3. Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser

These three ships represent the worst of the ugly, small, hot-dog mediocrity foisted upon us by WEG all those years ago. That these are supposed to be Imperial ships is a joke, and the part that irks me about them the most. The only good thing they ever did was the Interdictor Cruiser and the Victory-class Star Destroyer.

4. TIE Defender

Don't get me wrong- it's a kickass fighter and I love flying it. But in terms of looks and design, it makes absolutely not a jot of sense. The centre ball is little different from a regular TIE, and it has those three radiator panels (presumably it requires the increased surface area due to the improved performance)- yet its supposed to have warhead launchers, ion cannons, lasers, shields and hyperdrive? Give me a break. Compare to the much better design of the TIE Avenger and Vader's TIE/X1- there's actually space to put some of this stuff.

5. TIE Crawler/ TIE tank

What the fuck, really? Who in their right mind would take a TIE cockpit ball and put huge bloody treads on both sides of it? It's an incredibly stupid design for ground combat.

6. Every -Wing fighter invented by the EU, ever.

Dark Empire's E-Wing, the K-Wing (don't remember where?), and the V-Wing (also from DE). They're ugly. The wanked out upgraded X-Wings also suck (fear the XJ-Wing! It has three torpedo launchers, not two!).

Style over substance, eh' Vympel?

Although, I'll admit, the Tie Tank looks silly, although I never minded the Lancer and Dreadnaught.

A lot of the designs from the earlier comics were ridiculously stupid (thankfully, most arent canon) but the only other one that stands out in my mind is the AT-MT. I like the concept, but something about it felt...just wrong.

Ok, while I'll admit that the Loronar looks like an ugly piece of crap... How can you not like the Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser ? I mean.. It;'s a Drednaught! It's old, it represents the best of the Old Republic. I thought it was spiffy!

Lancers and Dreads fit with the Old Republic look. At least when compared to Venators and Acclamators, or those ships in KOTOR.

The TIE tank is indeed crap. It can't even shoot at anything if there's obstacles more than a couple meters tall in the way. The TIE Defender and the E-wing smack of pure wank. Hey, let's make a couple fighters that can do EVERYTHING, and have NO weaknesses!

I would also like to nominate the New Class "ships" from the Black Fleet Crisis novels and Cracken's Threat Dossier. They represent EU starfighter/New Republic bias and minimalism at its worst. When I first read the preview for Before the Storm, which mentioned fleet carriers disgorging fighters, bombers, and gunships, I imagined a huge, multi-kilometer ship with hundreds, maybe thousands of fighters, that carried 120-meter-long Corellian Gunships. Instead, the Endurance-class fleet carrier was a gutted Star Destroyer barely larger than a VSD. For a dedicated carrier, its fighter wing of 72 was ridiculously pathetic. And this thing was STILL supposed to be this badass command ship. From reading the profiles of the ships in CTD, it seemed like the author really had it in for the ISD. Almost every tiny, crappy New Republic ship seemed to have "ISD killer" in its mission profile. And even though their pictures are probably invalid (the artist was apparently too stupid to understand the concept of shared hulls), these ships were drawn ugly as hell:

+http://www.geocities.com/swu_republic/Republic_Ships/

Try looking at those pictures, and reading their ISD-bashing profiles without throwing up.

+http://www.geocities.com/swu_republic/Republic_Ships/

The Ferret and Majestic classes dont look too bad, but otherwise, I'd have to agree with the label.

I have to say that the Victory-class counts as an ugly vehicle. Instead of the "hot-dog" design mentality as Vympel put it, we have the most obvious kitbash I've ever seen. The ship's half the length and one sixth the volume of an Imperator, yet everything is the exact same propotions? The junk they added onto it is disgusting, as well. Giant antennae, massive flaps/vents, a bridge protrusion, a tiny sensor globe?

As opposed to a complete ignorance of the Imperial design aesthetic, they make a creatively-bankrupt kitbash of the ship that is its very symbol.

How can you not like the Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser ? I mean.. It;'s a Drednaught! It's old, it represents the best of the Old Republic. I thought it was spiffy!

No- the Venator-class represents that. The Dreadnought is just a ... gah. Yuck. Another bloody hot dog. None of the three convince me as either Imperial or Republic ships. Both = dagger as far as I'm concerned.

Vympel wrote:

How can you not like the Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser ? I mean.. It;'s a Drednaught! It's old, it represents the best of the Old Republic. I thought it was spiffy!

No- the Venator-class represents that. The Dreadnought is just a ... gah. Yuck. Another bloody hot dog. None of the three convince me as either Imperial or Republic ships. Both = dagger as far as I'm concerned.

Why? What makes you believe either group would stick with a single design for all of their ships, especially those with drastically different combat purposes? Are you suggesting that the Empire/Republic should use ickle baby Star Destroyers as support ships for their heavier cruisers, rather than diversifying with a shape that is most likely just as suited, if not more so?

The TIE tank 'wins' hands down

Noble Ire wrote: Why? What makes you believe either group would stick with a single design for all of their ships

No, just a single design aesthetic. The films demonstrate that aesthetic very well. And the word is dagger/wedge.

especially those with drastically different combat purposes?

I don't see how the "combat purpose" of any of those ugly, sub-km pieces of shit would dictate their uglyness, really.

Are you suggesting that the Empire/Republic should use ickle baby Star Destroyers as support ships for their heavier cruisers, rather than diversifying with a shape that is most likely just as suited, if not more so?

The assertion that whatever ugly-ass shape of the above is more suited is just that, an assertion. I think it's pretty safe to say that the people drawing these worhtless junk heaps didn't put any thought into it. And if they're just as suited, then yes, they should use dagger/wedge ships for all roles. They look better and they're what the Imperial/Republic Starfleet is.

Vympel wrote:3. Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser

To be honest, I rather like the Dreadnought. However, I see it strictly as a support ship and not a frontline warship.

Vympel wrote:These three ships represent the worst of the ugly, small, hot-dog mediocrity foisted upon us by WEG all those years ago.

Aren't the new CIS ships in ROTS hot dog shaped?

Vympel wrote:That these are supposed to be Imperial ships is a joke, and the part that irks me about them the most. The only good thing they ever did was the Interdictor Cruiser and the Victory-class Star Destroyer.

It's worse than that. Didn't they take the VicStar design from ANH preproduction sketches?

Vympel wrote:4. TIE Defender

Don't get me wrong- it's a kickass fighter and I love flying it. But in terms of looks and design, it makes absolutely not a jot of sense. The centre ball is little different from a regular TIE, and it has those three radiator panels (presumably it requires the increased surface area due to the improved performance)- yet its supposed to have warhead launchers, ion cannons, lasers, shields and hyperdrive? Give me a break. Compare to the much better design of the TIE Avenger and Vader's TIE/X1- there's actually space to put some of this stuff.

Meh. Anything that'll kick Rebel butt is fine.

applejack wrote: Aren't the new CIS ships in ROTS hot dog shaped?

I'm talking about trying to foist these pieces of crap off as mainline galactic warships of the Republic/Empire, not their looks per se.

It's worse than that. Didn't they take the VicStar design from ANH preproduction sketches?

That's why it's one of the better ones. The Juggernaut of the EU also came from TESB concept art. They both say "Star Wars" more than any unoriginal crap ever could.

Meh. Anything that'll kick Rebel butt is fine.

Yeah, but it has to make some sense.

I actually like the Dreadnaught in some respects. I don't care for other ships which seem to mimic it, such as the strike cruiser and such, but I suppose it's the fact that it's a much older design than any of the CW-era ships we've seen. Although, I will admit that it seems out of place compared to Rendili's Victory class.

And there's another thing. Why the hate for the VicStar? Sure, it's painted by the EU in general, and WEG in particular, as a small, ugly Imperator clone. It still has as much, if not more, volume for a Venator-sized reactor, and armaments to boot. It's really a Venator without the expansive hangar facilities and huge engine volume. It's a compact gun- and missile-ship. And don't forget I'm making one!

I don't care for the Nebulon frigate being equipped with what? Two fighter squadrons despite its size? I know it can be reconciled by mounting external storage racks, but come on. So what if the ship's too small for fighters? It doesn't need them.

And from what few illustrations I've seen, the Republic class SD is ugly. It's as though they turned an ImpStar into a balloon and overfilled it. Too many curves.

Vympel wrote:

applejack wrote:

Meh. Anything that'll kick Rebel butt is fine.

Yeah, but it has to make some sense.

Will agree with you there. The Defender is wanked up the ass, yet seemingly has no extra space for any of it's Über features. It needs to be as big or bigger then the TIE Avenger really.

Oh yea, Don't forget that the Dreadnaughts are really old. In their time, they were the frontline ships of the Republic. There was very little that was bigger then them at the time as well, so they arn't all that silly, just out of date.

Speaking of, are there any real estimates on the Dreadnaught's age, or material from which to derive such estimates? I can't imagine the ship is any older than a hundred years by the Clone Wars.

Noble Ire wrote:

Vympel wrote:

How can you not like the Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser ? I mean.. It;'s a Drednaught! It's old, it represents the best of the Old Republic. I thought it was spiffy!

No- the Venator-class represents that. The Dreadnought is just a ... gah. Yuck. Another bloody hot dog. None of the three convince me as either Imperial or Republic ships. Both = dagger as far as I'm concerned.

Why? What makes you believe either group would stick with a single design for all of their ships, especially those with drastically different combat purposes? Are you suggesting that the Empire/Republic should use ickle baby Star Destroyers as support ships for their heavier cruisers, rather than diversifying with a shape that is most likely just as suited, if not more so?

I can't for the life of me, think where these ugly-as-fuck angular hot dogs could perform better than wedges.

What's wrong with the V-Wing? I thought it was a cool little ship. Especially in Rogue Squadron. Although, I must admit it was just a fun play gimmick. I'd prefer it over Snowspeeders A Go-Go. Of course, I've never rea Dark Empire or even heard of it before coming here so I don't know how the V-Wing plays out in the comic.

Firefox wrote:Speaking of, are there any real estimates on the Dreadnaught's age, or material from which to derive such estimates? I can't imagine the ship is any older than a hundred years by the Clone Wars.

WotC's Starships of the Galaxy simply mentions that they were large starships from "the latter years of the Old Republic," and that they began to be phased out when the Victory-class was developed. It also states they were the backbone of fleets for "decades," so they were at least twenty years old when the Victory was introduced (otherwise it would be a decade). Victory-class was supposed to be designed near the end of the Clone Wars. The Katana fleet was lost almost 45 years before Endor (according to the Star Wars Databank), so that also provides a latest possible time of introduction to about ten years before Episode I, or (again) about twenty years before the Clone Wars begin. Note that this is a latest possible introduction, and the fact that Katana was designed to reduce crew needs suggests the Dreadnought had already been in service for some time before the incident occurred.

I can't for the life of me, think where these ugly-as-fuck angular hot dogs could perform better than wedges.

And I can't think for the life of me why they shouldn't.
Another concievable explanaion is the fact that the companies that constructed the ships had different design and stylistic preferances, a prefectly reasonable theory. Just because something is ugly doesnt mean it wont work.

Isn't it true that a wedge-shaped hull allows maximum field of fire for its weapons. I mean for a war-like government such as the Galactic Empire the ability to target the maxiumum amount of weapons at a single target would be a lot nicer to have than ships that can only target certain regions cause it looks like a hot dog. Just a thought.

In addition, that brings up another question. What are the reasons (other than the one I just mentioned) that makes a triangular/wedge shaped hull a lot better warship design.

For those that like'em , best picture of a Old Dreadnaught IMHO. Gives you the look and feel of an old well worn ship that the Dread's are. Of course they arn't wedges, because they were built long before the Empier and the Wedge ships that come at the end of the CloneWars.

For people bitching about the Dreadnaught, remember that its basically the equivilent of a coast guard cutter. When it was designed and built, the Republic hadn't had a major war in a millenia. All they needed was something to take on the little shitbox corvettes and frigates that pirates would be running around in.

And am I the only one who likes the K-Wing? Sure, its ugly, but its damned well armed, and ROTS showed us that externally carried ordinance and rear gunners are not an anachronism in the GFFA.

In my opinion, most warships should share basic forms, at least in principle. They should all be kind of wedge/arrowhead/cone shaped for the advantages discussed many times before.

Any ship that obviously has 'thrust line problems' (I.E. it looks like it'll only spin end-over-end the moment the unfortunate helmsman fire the mains). Starlight Intruder anyone?

Jim Raynor wrote:I would also like to nominate the New Class "ships" from the Black Fleet Crisis novels and Cracken's Threat Dossier. They represent EU starfighter/New Republic bias and minimalism at its worst. When I first read the preview for Before the Storm, which mentioned fleet carriers disgorging fighters, bombers, and gunships, I imagined a huge, multi-kilometer ship with hundreds, maybe thousands of fighters, that carried 120-meter-long Corellian Gunships. Instead, the Endurance-class fleet carrier was a gutted Star Destroyer barely larger than a VSD. For a dedicated carrier, its fighter wing of 72 was ridiculously pathetic. And this thing was STILL supposed to be this badass command ship. From reading the profiles of the ships in CTD, it seemed like the author really had it in for the ISD. Almost every tiny, crappy New Republic ship seemed to have "ISD killer" in its mission profile. And even though their pictures are probably invalid (the artist was apparently too stupid to understand the concept of shared hulls), these ships were drawn ugly as hell:

+http://www.geocities.com/swu_republic/Republic_Ships/

Try looking at those pictures, and reading their ISD-bashing profiles without throwing up.

OMFG WTFHELL?! Why do they all look all Startrek/Gundam/Anime-ish? Those aren't Star-Wars ships, they're aliens.

As for the hotdogs, I've never gotten around to liking them. I guess I like my wedgy daggers of death too much. Hmm, maybe I need to get around to designing a Star Destroyer to set these WEG assholes right: I promise it won't look like a turbolaser-cannon-barrels-for-quills porcupine, but it will look like a Bad Ass Muthafucka.

EDIT: Gah, fucken typos!