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I know Lucas meant to make SW black and white, but I’m wondering if you can trisect the Force. In many games where there are three sides, as in Westwood’s Dune series, there is a good side, and evil side, and a side that’s either so alien as to have no conception of good or evil, or just more interested in greedy self-interest than ideology (the House Ordos faction has been portrayed in both ways).

So, could there be some sort of “in-between” way of the Force, that of self-interest, survival, and a mindset that avoids emotion except when it is useful? Rather Tau-like, maybe? I’m not sure how Neutral-alignment characters work in D&D.

High level canon: probably not.

low level canon: yes, Treia from kotor 2, anakin and vergere from the njo follow very different path's. (to destroy the force and that there is no dark side- only the unifying force, to be precise)

the .303 bookworm wrote:High level canon: probably not.

low level canon: yes, Treia from kotor 2, anakin and vergere from the njo follow very different path's. (to destroy the force and that there is no dark side- only the unifying force, to be precise)

I wouldn't describe Kreia as following a middle way.

Lonestar wrote: I wouldn't describe Kreia as following a middle way.

She did have a unique perpective on the force and before becoming darth treya was perfectly balanced between the dark and light.

It's possible to be "in-between" if you are not Force sensitive. When you are, it doesn't work that way.

Lord Acton wrote:Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

May have been said a good 90 years before the Jedi came into existence, but considering the shit-loads of power even a mediocre Padawan has (not even taking into account those with Yoda or Palpatine-level power), even a little corruption can go a looong way. Use UNLIMITED POWER!!!1!!one! in a bad way, and it becomes easier to rationalize doing it again.

Also, there is a problem with only trying to avoid certain types of emotion. A lot of sources for positive emotion can also be major sources for negative emotions. An example: You have a wonderful family. You are very happy. But uh-oh, you just found out your spouse has been cheating on you. And, to connect to my first point, multiply those negative emotions by the power levels present in the average Force-user.

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Lonestar wrote: I wouldn't describe Kreia as following a middle way.

She did have a unique perpective on the force and before becoming darth treya was perfectly balanced between the dark and light.

She wasn't balanced. She was a manipulator. Try playing each path. She jumps all over you if you are nice and charitable, but doesn't care about evil acts unless you act cruel simply for the sake of being cruel (unlike being cruel in order to scam someone out of credits or intimidating them into do a job for you).

Jolee Bindo is only one that IMHO truly was capable being neutral to Force (and he lived in the Shadowlands of Kashyyyk)

I think I read about this in the Hand of Thrawn duology; Talon Kaarde tracked down some guy with an original Camassi document, and that ex-pirate learned some tricks from monks who used something like a thrid way of the force.

It also intimated that Padme might have lived, but that ended definitively with ROTS.

Lord Revan wrote:Jolee Bindo is only one that IMHO truly was capable being neutral to Force (and he lived in the Shadowlands of Kashyyyk)

And even then, he was more "crotchety old man" and "disillusioned Jedi" than actually neutral. He obviously preferred the light side, but he disagreed with how to best follow the light side.

KOTOR 2 did have this item.

Gray Jedi Robe
Gray Jedi are those who, though having completed the teachings of the Jedi,
operate independently and outside of the Jedi Council. They are typically seen
as misguided, though they have not necessarily succumbed to the dark side.
* Attribute Bonus: Charisma +2
* Defense Bonus: 1
* Regenerate Force Points: 1
* User Limitation: Human

I copied the info from here

bilateralrope wrote:KOTOR 2 did have this item.

Gray Jedi Robe
Gray Jedi are those who, though having completed the teachings of the Jedi,
operate independently and outside of the Jedi Council. They are typically seen
as misguided, though they have not necessarily succumbed to the dark side.
* Attribute Bonus: Charisma +2
* Defense Bonus: 1
* Regenerate Force Points: 1
* User Limitation: Human

I copied the info from here

Here's what WikiPedia has to say on the subject of Grey Jedi:

Grey Jedi, although having completed the teachings of the Jedi Order, are Jedi that had either been exiled or had disassociated themselves with the order. Consequently, they operate independently outside the Jedi Council. They are typically seen as misguided to the Jedi, though they have not necessarily succumbed to the Dark Side of the Force. They are in between, using both sides of the Force. Jolee Bindo, Darth Revan and Kyle Katarn are commonly identified as Grey Jedi, as are also the "Lost Twenty" of the Jedi Order; in Knights of the Old Republic II it was possible to acquire a Grey Jedi robe. George Lucas used this term to describe Qui-Gon Jinn.

It's interesting to note that Count Dooku, according to the EU, was not labled as a sith lord but as #20 of the Lost Twenty. This suggests that Dooku is infact a Grey Jedi and not a dark Jedi despite the name darth Tyrannus.

It's interesting to note that Count Dooku, according to the EU, was not labled as a sith lord but as #20 of the Lost Twenty. This suggests that Dooku is infact a Grey Jedi and not a dark Jedi despite the name darth Tyrannus.

Mara Jade also seems to fall into this category, at least during her service to the Emperor. She preformed various acts to serve Palpatine and the dark side, yet she never tapped into the Dark Side, nor did she become evil.

And the Jedi didn't know until AoTC that he had become a Sith. But he recieved a Sith title and some Sith training from the Dark Lord of the Sith. Dooku used the Dark Side of the Force. To say Dooku walked a middle path is absurd.

Darth Fanboy wrote:And the Jedi didn't know until AoTC that he had become a Sith. But he recieved a Sith title and some Sith training from the Dark Lord of the Sith. Dooku used the Dark Side of the Force. To say Dooku walked a middle path is absurd.

Dooku believed that he had the necessary willpower to walk a balanced path between the dark and light drawing upon both equally, however he fell to the darkside and didnt have the strength of character to do so, Palpatine himself might have been interfering though in order to limit his power.

Edit-all of the above

Ugh...Caps Lock off please?

Edit: Thanks!!

The only instances that I'm aware of where there is a middle line in the force are the NJO and the Hand of Thrawn Duology.

NJO: Jacen learns how to use the Unifying Force thanks to Veregre. The explanation for there not being a dark side is that the Unifying Force looks at nature and the fact that there is no evil only evil actions, as long as you stay true to yourself you can use the base emotions, like anger, to fuel your power whilst never actually becoming evil.

HoT Duology: Cardas and the Antiga Monks (hope thats the right spelling) use a form of the Force that doesn't go by light and dark/black and white but instead goes for a "Full Rainbow" belief system.

Interesting about Katarn, and yes that would fit with his reputation, but in the games he's rejoined the Jedi Order and now an instructor there alongside Luke. So he's firmly on their side, even if he espouses some interesting Force philosophy in Jedi Academy ("remember, no power is inherently Dark or Light Side, it's how you use it that matters" iirc). Then again he clearly agrees with the "Light Side" way of the Force and the New Republic. I think this was a plot device to give the students some wiggle room to go off on their own...

Plus, I don't know if Katarn is discussed outside the JK game series and the DF novelles, but one could say that his "philosophy" is somewhat similar to what we've observed with Luke (using grip, a supposedly "Dark Force power" according to game mechanics) in ROTJ, etc. Though I hear the NJO muddies the Jedi philosophy with so called mavericks and politics and such so it's probably a mess now. ;P