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Okay, I theorized about what would have happened had Greivous not died in the Three-Sided War thread, which most people simply deigned to reply. I guess that's because most people reject the notion of a viable three sided galactic war. Can everyone please read/scan over this post before replying? Thanks.

Here's my refined idea:

Instead of shooting General Grievous, Obi-Wan knocks the cyborg into a ravine, plunging him hundreds of feet into water. As he hits the water, Greivous experiences a code blue- his heart stops. Obi-Wan feels his force-signs/life-signs slip away, and leaves him for dead. Stupid? Yes. The last time he's ever let a powerful foe for dead without checking? Probably not.

Greivous, however, isn't dead, but close to it. He's somehow found by his underlings, fished out of the water, and rushed off Utapau. Onboard a secure ship, he undergoes medical treatment, and is incapacitated for several weeks, caught in a coma.

When he wakes up, the Old Republic has declared victory in the Clone Wars, and the Galactic Empire has replaced it. Order 66 is in motion, and Greivous gets a bad feeling of plot contrivance, and rushes to Mustafar to evacuate the leaders of the Confederacy of Independent Systems. The Separatists get to another safe spot, while they observe what happens and ponder at what to do.

Anakin goes to Mustafar, and is angered by the escape of the Separatists. Here, either of two things could occur: Anakin leaves the planet in a huff, or the sad events of ROTS occur. If he leaves, Padme goes to the planet and cannot find him. She despairs, but she isn't as upset as she is in the movie- she never saw Anakin go bad, and he never tried to kill her.

Now, here's where the chronology and characters gets screwey: Grievous, know pretty much in control with both Dooku dead and Sidious no longer in secret control of the Separatists (since he just doesn't care), convinces the corporate executives that the Empire is bad news, since oppression is no good for business. Indeed, following the Star Wars Databank site, the Empire tries to seize the ownings of the galactic conglomerates. The Separatists decide to rebel against this Empire, but they must seek the help of its enemies.

I don't know when Mon Mothma and co. openly began their rebellion, but suppose the Separatists know who are the bleeding hearts in the Senate and contact them. They propose a truce, and the moderates agree. They get together and organize their anti-Imperial movement, bypass the Rebellion stage, and declare themselves the true successors to the Republic: the Second Republic, France-style. They draft up a constitution giving concessions to the Separatists (anti-corruption and more freedom for the corporations, as well as asylum), and openly call for a struggle against the Empire. Most of the business leaders are appeased, though Greivous himself is unhappy with the former old-republicans, and is disgusted when they give safe haven to the remaining Jedi. He plots to betray them once the Empire is weakened, but for now he'll work with them.

Here's something of mine of dubious plausibility: Palpatine seethes against this "Second Republic", realizes they have weakened his authority, and publically executes all possible sympathizers in the Senate on Coruscant. This brings great anger to many systems, causing them to defect to the Second Republic.

What happens next is up to you. Maybe Obi-Wan, Padme, and Yoda get to the Second Republic. Maybe the remaining Jedi can stomach working with the droids against the clones instead of vice versa. I see two ultimate paths:

1. Short-term. The civil war is like the Clone War, since the Empire is greatly weakened. Eventually it is hurt enough for Greivous and some of the Separatists to declare themselves free of the Second Republic, creating a three way war- droid and CIS vs. droid/Jedi/Republicans/ex-CIS vs. clone/Empire.

2. Long-term. Most of you will probably be comfortable with this, since it is more like the OT. The Second Republic fails to get lots of support, since much of it is composed of ex-Separatists. The Empire is repressive and powerful, and crushes many Republic worlds (Kashyyk comes to mind). Eventually, they are put in the same position as the Rebel Alliance, except they are richer and have a stronger military component (the remaining droid armies). The Empire is slightly weaker, since the rebellion began much earlier. General Grievous, Nute Gunray, et al. are ironically in the same position as Mon Mothma and Bel Iblis, though maybe some Separatists will join the Empire, to be executed and have their corporatioins nationalized.

There is absolutely no way that *weeks* passed between Utapau and Mustafar.

Also, Grievous was modified so he'd obey Sidious. He'd report back to Sidious, give himself up under Palpy's orders and be executed as a war criminal.

Fine, days passed, then.

But Grievous is robot? I thought he was only lied to, and not hardwired to obey Palpatine.

Pick up the VD; At the very least his anger was artificially increased. Also, before his cyborging he refused a job from San Hill numerous times, after his Cyborging he's following Dooku around like an overgrown metal dog. It's not too much of a leap..

Battlehymn Republic wrote:But Grievous is robot? I thought he was only lied to, and not hardwired to obey Palpatine.

Grievous is Cyborg with modifications done his brains (At least added aggression and ruthlessness) and Sidious tendency for backup plans it probable that Grievous is indeed to hardwired to obey Sidious (he didn't kill Palpatine (or the CIS council members), because palpy told him not to).

Then forget about Grievous, if he's a lost cause. Is there still some other possible way for this scenario to occur? Maybe there's someone among the Separatists with clout, foresight, and politicking?

Battlehymn Republic wrote:...though Greivous himself is unhappy with the former old-republicans, and is disgusted when they give safe haven to the remaining Jedi. He plots to betray them once the Empire is weakened, but for now he'll work with them.

That can be fixed if someone researches the incident and finds proof that it was in fact Palpatine and not the Jedi who sabotaged Grievous' ships...then he's gonna be UBER pissed at the Empire.

No offense, but whats with you and these three-sided scenarios?

I wouldn't mind seeing an Infinity where Grievous becomes one of Palpatine's cat's-paw Hands, helping Vader hunt down the Jedi, operating in secret since he'd be well-known to most Imperial worlds, being hidden on Coruscant when the second Death Star blew up, then being found and re-activated by Isard to hunt down Luke...I can just see that scene...

"Attack, General Skywalker!"

Immediately followed by Grievous' death.

Grievous can't even resist force push, imagine what a force choke or crush on his organs will do.

Jason von Evil wrote:Grievous can't even resist force push, imagine what a force choke or crush on his organs will do.

make Grievous cough (Mace Windu did Force Crush Grievous' body in end of CW series.)

Jason von Evil wrote:Grievous can't even resist force push, imagine what a force choke or crush on his organs will do.

Have you seen the last 3 minutes of the final episode of Clone war's? , there is a reason that he keep's coughing in the movie.

The series also show's why he flunk's so badly in a fair fight without a psychological advantage aginst force-user's.

the .303 bookworm wrote: The series also show's why he flunk's so badly in a fair fight without a psychological advantage aginst force-user's.

yeah, it was crushing experience yes, I do know it's bad pun, so what

Lord Revan wrote:

the .303 bookworm wrote: The series also show's why he flunk's so badly in a fair fight without a psychological advantage aginst force-user's.

yeah, it was crushing experience

Positevely debilitating, it must have given him quite a stomach ache

I just love how he falls to the floor with his eyes bulging. Although I really want to know why having his guts crushed gives him an eastern-European accent.

Jason von Evil wrote:No offense, but whats with you and these three-sided scenarios?

Because in war, the more, the merrier. I've also often wondered why there aren't any three-sided wars in real-life. And in sci-fi, often there are three factions only to balance game mechanics. The Protoss and Humans in Starcraft aren't exactly mortal enemies. In C&C: Generals, the three sides don't hate each other equally.

Anyhow, say that in falling, Grievous somehow gets his Sidious-servant circuits shorted out. Palpatine also forgets about him, thinking that he is dead. And maybe aboard the ship someone shows him evidence that the Republic didn't bomb him.

Could Grievous gather up the CIS leadership, contact the liberal sympathizers in the Senate, and do everything in my OP?

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Jason von Evil wrote:Grievous can't even resist force push, imagine what a force choke or crush on his organs will do.

Have you seen the last 3 minutes of the final episode of Clone war's? , there is a reason that he keep's coughing in the movie.

The series also show's why he flunk's so badly in a fair fight without a psychological advantage aginst force-user's.

Uh, right, dumbass. Did I say he could resist it? No, I said he couldn't, COULDN'T resist it. And Mace dented the plates protecting Grievous's organs, thats why he was coughing.

Jason von Evil wrote:

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Jason von Evil wrote:Grievous can't even resist force push, imagine what a force choke or crush on his organs will do.

Have you seen the last 3 minutes of the final episode of Clone war's? , there is a reason that he keep's coughing in the movie.

The series also show's why he flunk's so badly in a fair fight without a psychological advantage aginst force-user's.

Uh, right, dumbass. Did I say he could resist it? No, I said he couldn't, COULDN'T resist it. And Mace dented the plates protecting Grievous's organs, thats why he was coughing.

I thought that you might want an example of how you were right, I didnt mean to say that you were wrong.

Also where did you get the dented armour plating fact? I thought that it was because he had suffered crushing damage to his lung and/or heart and didnt have a chance to heal

Battlehymn Republic wrote:

Jason von Evil wrote:No offense, but whats with you and these three-sided scenarios?

Because in war, the more, the merrier. I've also often wondered why there aren't any three-sided wars in real-life. And in sci-fi, often there are three factions only to balance game mechanics. The Protoss and Humans in Starcraft aren't exactly mortal enemies. In C&C: Generals, the three sides don't hate each other equally.

Anyhow, say that in falling, Grievous somehow gets his Sidious-servant circuits shorted out. Palpatine also forgets about him, thinking that he is dead. And maybe aboard the ship someone shows him evidence that the Republic didn't bomb him.

Could Grievous gather up the CIS leadership, contact the liberal sympathizers in the Senate, and do everything in my OP?

problem with Grievous that even without his cyber implants he's blood thirsty monster (the Geonosian rewired his brains that way), in fact Sidious was the only thing that prevented Grievous from killing the CIS ruling council.

Also where did you get the dented armour plating fact? I thought that it was because he had suffered crushing damage to his lung and/or heart and didnt have a chance to heal

In the CW cartoon scene in question, you actually see GG's torso plating crush inwards.

Noble Ire wrote:

Also where did you get the dented armour plating fact? I thought that it was because he had suffered crushing damage to his lung and/or heart and didnt have a chance to heal

In the CW cartoon scene in question, you actually see GG's torso plating crush inwards.

IIRC there's counterdiction with ROTS (in the Cartoon the plates are clearly bent and in ROTS they unbent until the battle with Kenobi).

Lord Revan wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:

Also where did you get the dented armour plating fact? I thought that it was because he had suffered crushing damage to his lung and/or heart and didnt have a chance to heal

In the CW cartoon scene in question, you actually see GG's torso plating crush inwards.

IIRC there's counterdiction with ROTS (in the Cartoon the plates are clearly bent and in ROTS they unbent until the battle with Kenobi).

Doesn't exactly take a team of experts to replace some dented metal plates. I'd imagine a simple mechanic droid could do it.

Lord Revan wrote:problem with Grievous that even without his cyber implants he's blood thirsty monster (the Geonosian rewired his brains that way), in fact Sidious was the only thing that prevented Grievous from killing the CIS ruling council.

Okay, I know it's hard to accept, but, in the interests of having my scenario not die at the very beginning, the circuits that make Grievous a willing pawn to Sidious are damaged, and not anything else in his implants. Maybe he gets rewired when he's rescued.

Just, someone please imagine a solution so that the scenario doesn't end at the very beginning. Or just give me a minor handwave to start the scenario.

Well, going back to the scenario, having Grievous on the Second Republic's side would be massively bad PR; He was viewed galaxy-wide as a monster and Palpy was setting him (along with Dooku) up as the Seperatist fall guy.

Jason von Evil wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:

Noble Ire wrote: In the CW cartoon scene in question, you actually see GG's torso plating crush inwards.

IIRC there's counterdiction with ROTS (in the Cartoon the plates are clearly bent and in ROTS they unbent until the battle with Kenobi).

Doesn't exactly take a team of experts to replace some dented metal plates. I'd imagine a simple mechanic droid could do it.

then haven't they fixed his coughing (if they time to replace the plates and several of his "ribs")