Palpatine = Emperor? Lucas says we will be surprised

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-12-03 01:48am

Everybody knows that the Emperor was called Palpatine. He's even the same actor. Then why Lucas says that not everything is at is seems and that we are in for a surprise? What does he mean? Is this a red herring?

Maybe the Senator and later Chancellor Palpatine is actually the good person he appears to be and he's got an evil twin? Maybe he has a split-personality, or his Dark-side self decided to create another nicer "persona" so he wouldn't be suspected (like Schwarzenegger in Total Recall?)

Opinions?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-03 01:53am

The surprise he mentioned didn't specifically mention Palpatine. If anything the surprise will probably be something to do with Mace Windu. It's been made abundantly clear that Palpatine=Sidious. Look at how he eggs Anakin on in his meeting with him in AOTC- how he suggests he protect Amidala. Those funny looks. His professions to 'love democracy' while he picks up emergency powers just like Caesar.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-03 01:56am

Maybe something in how Palpatine gets to be Emperor is the suprise. Not that he will be the Emperor.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-03 01:58am

Vympel wrote:The surprise he mentioned didn't specifically mention Palpatine. If anything the surprise will probably be something to do with Mace Windu. It's been made abundantly clear that Palpatine=Sidious. Look at how he eggs Anakin on in his meeting with him in AOTC- how he suggests he protect Amidala. Those funny looks. His professions to 'love democracy' while he picks up emergency powers just like Caesar.

I agree that Mace seems most likely for the suprise. His light saber is violet which is getting a little close to red. How exactly did he do that?

I'm also thinking that maybe Qui-Gon helped Dooku out a little early on and may have been the one who deleted Geonosis from the Jedi Archive.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2002-12-03 02:03am

Tsyroc wrote:
Vympel wrote:The surprise he mentioned didn't specifically mention Palpatine. If anything the surprise will probably be something to do with Mace Windu. It's been made abundantly clear that Palpatine=Sidious. Look at how he eggs Anakin on in his meeting with him in AOTC- how he suggests he protect Amidala. Those funny looks. His professions to 'love democracy' while he picks up emergency powers just like Caesar.
I agree that Mace seems most likely for the suprise. His light saber is violet which is getting a little close to red. How exactly did he do that?

I'm also thinking that maybe Qui-Gon helped Dooku out a little early on and may have been the one who deleted Geonosis from the Jedi Archive.

Bah@Qui-Gon doubters. Just because he didn't follow the books to a T didn't mean he was part evil.

This reminds me of the old debates on TF.net about Syfo-Dyas, where people pointed out that Syfo-Dyas sounds like Syd-ious. I believe someone once claimed that the early scripts called for it to be that way, but I don't think they supported this claim with proof. Maybe Palps did have some ties with the Council?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-03 02:04am

Lord_Xerxes wrote:
Tsyroc wrote: I'm also thinking that maybe Qui-Gon helped Dooku out a little early on and may have been the one who deleted Geonosis from the Jedi Archive.
Bah@Qui-Gon doubters. Just because he didn't follow the books to a T didn't mean he was part evil.

This reminds me of the old debates on TF.net about Syfo-Dyas, where people pointed out that Syfo-Dyas sounds like Syd-ious. I believe someone once claimed that the early scripts called for it to be that way, but I don't think they supported this claim with proof. Maybe Palps did have some ties with the Council?

I don't think Qui-Gon was evil I just think it's possible he was asked to do a favor for his old master.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-03 02:18am

Tsyroc wrote:
Vympel wrote:The surprise he mentioned didn't specifically mention Palpatine. If anything the surprise will probably be something to do with Mace Windu. It's been made abundantly clear that Palpatine=Sidious. Look at how he eggs Anakin on in his meeting with him in AOTC- how he suggests he protect Amidala. Those funny looks. His professions to 'love democracy' while he picks up emergency powers just like Caesar.
I agree that Mace seems most likely for the suprise. His light saber is violet which is getting a little close to red. How exactly did he do that?

I'm also thinking that maybe Qui-Gon helped Dooku out a little early on and may have been the one who deleted Geonosis from the Jedi Archive.

Blue+red=purple. Hmmm.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-03 02:32am

neoolong wrote:
Tsyroc wrote: I agree that Mace seems most likely for the suprise. His light saber is violet which is getting a little close to red. How exactly did he do that?
Blue+red=purple. Hmmm.

Right, but isn't the only way to get a red saber by using an artificial crystal manufactured, in part, by the dark side of the user?

Maybe Mace just found an extra special crystal, or either that or he is such a master that he's been developing his own blade that combines the benefits of the typical Jeid blade with those of the stronger Sith blade?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-03 02:41am

According to starwars.com, a Jedi could get different colors (like purple or something) by using more than one gem in the sabre.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-03 02:42am

I never really got the whole crystal thing.

But if it requires the dark side to get a reddish color, then wouldn't someone know that Mace had it in him. That isn't very stealthy.

So either it is extra special or he is ascribes to a different sort of philosphy than the other force users, maybe more neutral.

Of course, it could just be left at Sam Jackson thinking it would be badass to get a purple lightsaber and George Lucas just letting him.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-03 02:43am

Remember that the Mace Windu toy made for TPM had a purple lightsabre.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-03 02:48am

The crystals are suppose to focus the energy from base of the handle and out into a blade form, depending on the color of the gem(s) used, the blade takes on color.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-03 02:49am

My Episode 2 Visual Dictionary says something about synthetic Sith crystals being more powerful or some such ....

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-03 02:56am

Vympel wrote:Remember that the Mace Windu toy made for TPM had a purple lightsabre.

The Adi Gallia one had a red saber. What's your point?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-12-03 03:05am

Tsyroc wrote:I'm also thinking that maybe Qui-Gon helped Dooku out a little early on and may have been the one who deleted Geonosis from the Jedi Archive.

Kamino. It was Kamino, not Geonosis, which was deleted from the archives.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-03 03:06am

neoolong wrote:
Vympel wrote:Remember that the Mace Windu toy made for TPM had a purple lightsabre.
The Adi Gallia one had a red saber. What's your point?

Just an interesting coincidence, or that Windu's sabre was meant to be purple from the start, which makes SLJ asking GL for a purple one unlikely because he didnt even ignite it in TPM

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-03 03:07am

Vympel wrote:
neoolong wrote:
Vympel wrote:Remember that the Mace Windu toy made for TPM had a purple lightsabre.
The Adi Gallia one had a red saber. What's your point?
Just an interesting coincidence, or that Windu's sabre was meant to be purple from the start, which makes SLJ asking GL for a purple one unlikely because he didnt even ignite it in TPM

Depends on when he requested it. And the toy could have been designed with some input by Samuel L Jacksonn.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2002-12-03 03:42am

In Star Wars Tales #13, there is a story about Mace when he made his lightSaber. I know comics aren't cannon, but.... Mace was Fourteen and had not yet built a light sabber. He wanted crystals that would make his sabber unique, so Yoda sent him to a planet "Far beyond the Outer Rim" called Hurikane. Long story short he saved the life of one of the stone natives, and recived some purple crystals, in return.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-03 04:20am

Aren't all Padawans sent to some sort of ice planet that has those crystals needed in the sabres, so they can build their own sabres there?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-03 04:53am

It's on the AotC DVD;

SLJ: What colour is my saber going to be?

GL: The good guys get either blue or green. The bad guys get red. So for you blue or green.

SLJ: Ha, could I have a purple one?

GL: Hm, yeah you can have a purple one.

Something to that effect.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-03 05:02am

Not much arm twisting there.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-03 06:11am

Mace's saber color wasn't always known (even if you doubt the candidness of the Lucas/Jackson dialouge on the AOTC DVD)... in the "Jedi Power Battles" video game for the PSX and Dreamcast, Mace has a blue saber (and Adi Gallia's is red, Ki Adi's is purple, Plo Koon's is gold).

Again, it's extra-movie material inovating, then getting overwritten by the movies.

Lucas has explained that (to paraphrase) the saber colors in the movies are akin to the hat colors in old cowboy serials... black hats = bad guys, white hats = good guys.

Gray hats? Some rare character, maybe like the old sheriff who's daughter the hero marries at the end, or something. ; )

In the expanded universe, I always assumed (and I swear I've read this too) that the saber color was just a personal preference thing with the person who built it. The "crystals" affect it, but its up to the person to choose the colors.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-03 06:14am

Games can't be considered canon, since the people making them don't always stick to the facts.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2002-12-03 11:57am

I have (well soon to be had, I'm selling them on Ebay) the Ep1 figures of Ki-Adi-Mundi and Adi Gallia. Both figures are packaged with those colors, Adi red, Ki purple. Just for a note.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2002-12-03 03:43pm

The split-personality idea with Palpatine is kind of interesting. Maybe he has both a good side and a bad side, just the bad side is mostly in control. Maybe the good side was not aware of the split personality and was being unconciously manipulated by the darker side, which would explain why Palpatine was able to operate directly under the noses of the jedi for so long.