StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Note we are assuming a Jedi without lightsaber vs bullets.

A bullet (say with a mass of 50 grams to make it a big one) travelling at 900 m / s (high velocity rifle) would require a 45 N force to be retarded. Jedi have already lifted starfighters, hurled rocks, sheared off metal machines etc showing they can exert a much greater amount of force on objects using the Force. So in theory Jedi should be able to stop bullets using the Force. Only problem would be locking on to them. However given Jedi precognition and reflexes they should be able to sense a bullet and stop it. Using modern guns against a Jedi may not be as effective as it seems.

Comments ?

CW has Obi-wan deflecting s stream of flachets (high speed bullet fragments).
Deflecting a bullet using TK or just a force push seems very reasonable as a low end feat for most jedi.

In the Thrawn trilogy Mara was unable to stop a rain of stones that were falling on her. This may indicate that force pushes from all but very high Jedi target a single thing (e.g. a single bullet, star fighter etc) but have trouble targeting multiple objects at the same time.

Glimmervoid wrote:In the Thrawn trilogy Mara was unable to stop a rain of stones that were falling on her. This may indicate that force pushes from all but very high Jedi target a single thing (e.g. a single bullet, star fighter etc) but have trouble targeting multiple objects at the same time.

Mara Jade was also far from a fully-trained Jedi at that point.

How big were the rocks?

Also do we know if it is possible to maintain a "push" as Obi Wan did in CW? If so then multiple small objects wouldnt be a problem unlike larger heavier objects, that require real concentration to move

I don't know about this. I think this may be a case where no matter how good a Jedi is, if you fire enough bullets quick enough (several thousands) sooner or later he's going to miss.

the .303 bookworm wrote:How big were the rocks?

Also do we know if it is possible to maintain a "push" as Obi Wan did in CW? If so then multiple small objects wouldnt be a problem unlike larger heavier objects, that require real concentration to move

They were described as a torrent of pebbles to small for her to get a grip on thought the force. Or some thing to that affect.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:I don't know about this. I think this may be a case where no matter how good a Jedi is, if you fire enough bullets quick enough (several thousands) sooner or later he's going to miss.

Not if the Jedi is essentially just pushing in the direction that the bullets are coming from rather than grabing each on in mid air. Certainly, the Jedi would tire eventually, but not very quickly.

And the projectiles would be returned to sender even more effectively than a blaster bolt .

Wasnt Mara pitifully weak about then?
She barely had any time using the force without drawing on Palpatine instead of the force itself (making her previous experience null and void), and most of her usage would probably be in the mind trick department to avoid suspicion.

If the objective was more defensive the Jedi could use the Force to deflect the bullet rather than stopping it. It would require far less precision and effort to avoid getting hit.

the .303 bookworm wrote:And the projectiles would be returned to sender even more effectively than a blaster bolt .

Wasnt Mara pitifully weak about then?
She barely had any time using the force without drawing on Palpatine instead of the force itself (making her previous experience null and void), and most of her usage would probably be in the mind trick department to avoid suspicion.

Source that Mara relied on Palpatine helping her?

Over the Thrawn Trilogy and the Thrawn clone Duology shes shown to be an effective Jedi.
Also, I doubt even an acomplished Jedi Master could stop a torrent of rocks with a nil warning time.

Tiger Ace wrote:

the .303 bookworm wrote:And the projectiles would be returned to sender even more effectively than a blaster bolt .

Wasnt Mara pitifully weak about then?
She barely had any time using the force without drawing on Palpatine instead of the force itself (making her previous experience null and void), and most of her usage would probably be in the mind trick department to avoid suspicion.

Source that Mara relied on Palpatine helping her?

Over the Thrawn Trilogy and the Thrawn clone Duology shes shown to be an effective Jedi.
Also, I doubt even an acomplished Jedi Master could stop a torrent of rocks with a nil warning time.

Also i dont know how i forgot this Luke was having the same problem.

Which shows that its reflex times that are going to save you.
Not to mention even Yoda took a few seconds to stop Dooku's physical attacks in AOTC.

Tiger Ace wrote:

the .303 bookworm wrote:And the projectiles would be returned to sender even more effectively than a blaster bolt .

Wasnt Mara pitifully weak about then?
She barely had any time using the force without drawing on Palpatine instead of the force itself (making her previous experience null and void), and most of her usage would probably be in the mind trick department to avoid suspicion.

Source that Mara relied on Palpatine helping her?

The "Mara Jade"by the emperor's hand" comic, SW rpg: DS handbook have it stated that the emperor trained his hands to draw on him instead of the force itself, once he died they lost most of their power and their training became much less effective.

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Tiger Ace wrote:

the .303 bookworm wrote:And the projectiles would be returned to sender even more effectively than a blaster bolt .

Wasnt Mara pitifully weak about then?
She barely had any time using the force without drawing on Palpatine instead of the force itself (making her previous experience null and void), and most of her usage would probably be in the mind trick department to avoid suspicion.

Source that Mara relied on Palpatine helping her?

The "Mara Jade"by the emperor's hand" comic, SW rpg: DS handbook have it stated that the emperor trained his hands to draw on him instead of the force itself, once he died they lost most of their power and their training became much less effective.

No idea what happens when EU contradicts EU, but thats contradicted by Thrawn Trilogy that Mara is capable of using the Force in a powerful way.
Thrawn duology also shows she kepts her Light Saber skills.

Asumming those powers were her 'left overs' then we can see Mara being a full power Jedi around mid point NJO.

Tiger Ace wrote:

the .303 bookworm wrote:

Tiger Ace wrote: Source that Mara relied on Palpatine helping her?

The "Mara Jade"by the emperor's hand" comic, SW rpg: DS handbook have it stated that the emperor trained his hands to draw on him instead of the force itself, once he died they lost most of their power and their training became much less effective.

No idea what happens when EU contradicts EU, but thats contradicted by Thrawn Trilogy that Mara is capable of using the Force in a powerful way.
Thrawn duology also shows she kepts her Light Saber skills.

Asumming those powers were her 'left overs' then we can see Mara being a full power Jedi around mid point NJO.

Mara and the Hands were Force Sensitive, it's just that the Emperor had them channel their force use through him rather than other methods. It was a way to control them. Mara learned how to access the Force normally later on.

Yet she was able to draw on the Force well enough to defeat a clone of Luke Skywalker, a clone being directly controled by a Jedi Master and a clone that had fought Luke himself to a stand still.

By that point, Mara had had some training by Luke. It wasn't much, but considering her previous Force experience it was still enough to bring out some of her potential.

Apparently, the clone's Force signature was interfering with Luke's concentration—Mara asks him if the buzzing in his head has stopped after she killed the clone. More importantly, she caught the clone off guard. The clone just got hit by an Exploding Console™, and had barely recovered when Mara reached him.

Was there any proof that C'baoth was actually in direct control of the clone other than Luke's speculation? I don't think C'baoth could've turned the clone into a drone in the few seconds between the restoration of the Force in Mt. Tantiss and the start of the fight. And even if he did manage it, Mara threw him into a panic when she nabbed the lightsabre and began her charge.

I'm reasonably certain there's several mentions of Jedi creating a Force shield about them (the Thrawn duology IIRC being one of them) so the bullets would simply smash into that as opposed to having to be dealt with on a one-on-one basis.
1. 50 grams is HMG territory. That's not rifle bullets.
2. 900 m/sec is actually about par for the course where modern assault rifles are concerned.

Lord Pounder wrote:Yet she was able to draw on the Force well enough to defeat a clone of Luke Skywalker, a clone being directly controled by a Jedi Master and a clone that had fought Luke himself to a stand still.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Luuke just get done having a viewscreen blown up in his face?

Dark Rendevous has them deflecting hails of flechettes from droids
CW season 1 has obi wan blocking a stream of bullets from Durge
Hard Contact had shrapnel being diverted.

I'd say it's more Mara's inexperience.

Haven't much knowledge in the EU I'm afraid, but in the game Jedi Academy, you can use the force to deflect shots from concussion rifles and rocket launchers. Those are in the 50 gram range. For normal "bullets" (personal weapon size) you cannot, as far as I know deflect the shots from a imperial heavy repeater. I think you can from the flachety gun. maybe the reason you cannot deflect the bullets from the imperial heavy repeater is the reason they can be deflected by a light saber. (they are bullets)

We know from the AOTC novelization that its quite possible for a Jedi to create "Force Walls" that behave like solid objects (the one Anakin used to hamper Dooku's movements, and the ones he used t o push the Tusken raider) If Jedi can create plane-like walls of sheer force, then it should be equally possible for them to create such walls for the purpose of bullet-deflection.

The Jazz Intern wrote:Haven't much knowledge in the EU I'm afraid, but in the game Jedi Academy, you can use the force to deflect shots from concussion rifles and rocket launchers. Those are in the 50 gram range. For normal "bullets" (personal weapon size) you cannot, as far as I know deflect the shots from a imperial heavy repeater. I think you can from the flachety gun. maybe the reason you cannot deflect the bullets from the imperial heavy repeater is the reason they can be deflected by a light saber. (they are bullets)

In Multiplayer you can actually Push bullets away. However it usually isn't very effective because your enemies will be pouring shot after shot into you constantly and you can only Push so fast, and eventually you'll run out of mana and have to recharge (and get overwhelmed). But yes, you can push all projectiles back (except the instant hit secondary Concussion Rifle shot), with some being more difficult than others.

Of course none of those projectiles move anywhere near as fast as real life bullets would, but still... it's "movie realism" and they're making allowances for the fact that these are human players pretending to be Jedi, not actual Jedi.

Edit: Now as to the Flechette's primary fire (the "shards" it fires, similar to UT's Flak Cannon) I don't know about that one. I have never actually tried to push them away but I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance. Good question.

Anything you can push you can also block with your Saber (except explosives, including the Concussion rifle shots) and have a much higher probability of reflecting it back at the attacker (assuming you have the proper angle and the right level of Saber Defense set).

As a matter of fact, you can push Heavy Repeater bullets and Flechettes back using Force Push, but since the game doesn't allow you to do a continous push (rather than discrete bursts of Pushiness), you can't hold off continous streams of shots even if you still have plenty of "mana" left.


As MacLeod pointed out, the same concept behind the application of Force Walls that Jedi use to hamper each other in duels can be applied to affect incoming projectiles without having to focus their attention on each projectile individually.
As Samored and Bookworm have pointed out, deflecting a projectile just enough so that it misses is far easier than stopping it dead in the air, and that's precisely what we see Obi-Wan doing when Durge fires a stream of a very large quantity of bullets/darts/flechettes at him. The way every single bullet was affected at the same distance made it look as though Obi-Wan was forming a discrete barrier of some sort.

Whatever the case, I don't think "response time" is really an issue. Recall that the have precognitive abilities.. the same precognition that allows them to deflect blaster fire with their lightsabers would give them a similar amount of time to react to other ranged attacks.


In fact, it is possible that Jedi can defend themselves so easily against physical projectile weapons that they don't worry much about ranged attacks, except for blaster bolts (which presumably can't be TK'd); this may be another big factor behind why they wield lightsabers.