Palpatine - schemer or storyteller

[weemadando]

OK - there seems to be some dispute as to what Palpatine's intention was when he was speaking to Anakin about the legend of Plegeius and the creation of life etc etc etc.

1) Was he inferring that he had been that apprentice, learnt all these powers and had created Anakin and set the prophecy in motion?

2) Was he merely spinning the shit to get Anakin on side?

3) He was Plegeius' apprentice, but did not create Anakin and was telling the story from firsthand knowledge.

[Pcm979]

Well, he was canonically Plaugeis' apprentice, and immaculate conception gives me the metaphorical shits, so I'm going with 1.

[Darth Fanboy]

I voted for the first choice. What other reason would Darth Sidious have to begin setting the "Revenge of the Sith" in motion at the time he did when the Sith Order had been thought long extinct for many years. He had an ace in the hole and he knew it, and im guessing that ace was Anakin.

Why does Palpatine have Darth Maul intercept Amidala on Naboo, when he could just as well have intercepted her in space, destroying the craft after it took off from Tatooine or before it could reach Coruscant, his Sith Interceptor should have been up to the task. Perhaps Maul was sent to Tatooine to duel the Jedi, maybe kill one of them, but also to let Amidala reach Coruscant with the young Anakin.

But if Anakin is so powerful, why allow the Jedi to even train him to begin with? Why not raise him from youth? It actually makes sense to allow the Jedi to train the boy. If Palpatine's plan is to work he must be the Supreme Chancellor, which would leave him without the time to train a new apprentice. Letting the Jedi develop Anakin's potential for him serves the dual purpose of freeing up more time to manipulate the galaxy and Anakin having access to the Jedi Temple, which proved quite potent during the execution of ORder 66 at the Jedi Temple. Also, Anakin grew up with the Jedi and eventually saw great failings in them, contributing to his fall to the Dark Side. The exposure to both the Jedi and Sith teachings, combined with Anakin being forced into making a decision cemented the hold of the Dark Side, and Sidious. Whether or not a "created" Anakin would have a predisposition towards anger, fear, and passion (all things that contribute to the 'Dark Side') I cannot say but it would be a possibility if said child was created by the Dark Side itself, however I can't back that up with anything either.

[Guardsman Bass]

I am slightly skeptical of hypothesis number #1, since Sidious trained Maul from birth, and had the time to train Dooku right on Coruscant even while he was a senator, and later Supreme Chancellor. If Sidious was breaking the prophecy by forcing it into action and creating the most powerful Jedi child ever, why didn't he simply take the child when he was still an infant? Although he would have had to have trained him from scratch, he obviously did that with Maul.

I'm opting for number 3, particularly since I've read the novelization. I think he changes what he said in the novel, from when he first tells Anakin the legend. He initially tells Anakin the apprentice learned all of Plagueis's powers, then killed the man in his sleep. After Anakin becomes Sith, however, he tells him they will discover the secret together.

[Darth Fanboy]

I am slightly skeptical of hypothesis number #1, since Sidious trained Maul from birth, and had the time to train Dooku right on Coruscant even while he was a senator, and later Supreme Chancellor. If Sidious was breaking the prophecy by forcing it into action and creating the most powerful Jedi child ever, why didn't he simply take the child when he was still an infant? Although he would have had to have trained him from scratch, he obviously did that with Maul.

I attempt to explain that in my above post. Also, remember that Sidious didn'tt have to train Dooku. Dooku was not only a fully capable force user with training but had already rejected the Jedi Order, Dooku only required some Sith teaching and even then Palpatine may or may not have withheld information since Dooku was just a pawn.

I'm opting for number 3, particularly since I've read the novelization. I think he changes what he said in the novel, from when he first tells Anakin the legend. He initially tells Anakin the apprentice learned all of Plagueis's powers, then killed the man in his sleep. After Anakin becomes Sith, however, he tells him they will discover the secret together.

Event though Palpatine is fond of using the truth to sow confusion, deception is one of his many tools. Although the idea of him assuming/inheriting a scheme concocted by Plagueis is feasble to me.

[Dakarne]

A bit of both, he's honestly using "Stories" to back up his "Schemes"...

If that makes any sense.

[drachefly]

When Maul was being trained, Sidious had a lot more time on his hands, not being chancellor. I think 1 fits. If only because it explains the 'no father' bs that would otherwise... well... graah!

[Isolder74]

I think it was a little of both.

He feed Anakin the parts of ther story he knew Anakin would want to hear until he had the young jedi in his grasp right where he wanted him.

[Patrick Degan]

My take:

Plageius probably raped Smi and Sith-mindfucked her to forget about it, leaving her knocked up with his kid.

We saw the ghost of a smile of Palpatine's face when he talked of Plageius being killed by his own apprentice —something which Anakin didn't catch. This is enough to indicate that said apprentice was none other than Palpatine.

Upshot: Palpatine knew that Anakin was Plageius' bastard and invented the story about manipulating the midichlorans to create life, playing on Anakin's hopes and fears while feeding him only those portions of the truth which would give the story verismilitude.

[Guardsman Bass]

We saw the ghost of a smile of Palpatine's face when he talked of Plageius being killed by his own apprentice —something which Anakin didn't catch. This is enough to indicate that said apprentice was none other than Palpatine.

The novelization confirms that Palpatine was Plagueis's apprentice- in the novel, Palpatine comes right out and says so to Anakin.

As for Shmi, wasn't her family kidnapped by pirates and sold into slavery, or something like that? I thought I remember seeing that in an EU timeline somewhere.

[Lord Pounder]

I've yet to see a reason why everyone wants to think that Palpatine had anything to do with the creation of Anakin.

From what i can see Palpatine was Plagius's student. Plagius knew the force technique "cheat death" but didn't teach it to Palpy. My guess is that Palpy then murdered him in his sleep in a fit of rage over that. Then comes Anakin a guy terrified of losing those he loves so the cheat death is a wee carrot to dangle in front of Anakin, make him realise there is more than the Jedi way. Bringing it up that way made Anakin blind to the realisation that Palpatine was leading him astray.

[Eframepilot]

Plagueis's technique was to create life. My personal theory with very little canon support is that Plagueis used his life creation to make Sidious, a Sith Lord of exceptional power equal to Yoda, the greatest Jedi of the past millenium. To balance this, the living Force spawned Anakin, the Chosen One who would destroy Sidious and restore balance to the Force.

[Havok]

I never really thought this was a question. Palps, aside from his duplicity, never seemed to bother with mundayne lies. I just went with what he said, or what he infered I should say. Plageus was his master. He created Anakin and learned how to stop people from dying. Palps killed him when he learned all his secrets.

Now just because he knows his secrets doesn't directly mean he knows how to carry them out. I know HOW to run a post pattern, but that doesn't mean I can go do it against Champ Bailey with out getting beat for the INT every time. Same with Palps he knows HOW to do all the shit he says but he may not be powerfull enough or hasn't gotten it quite right.

The questions this does raise are these. If Plaugeus did indeed have the power Palps claimed, why didn't he know where Anakin was after he was created? Was it a random birth somewhere in the galaxy at the Midi's discretion or was it in a lab and he foresaw the future and let Shmi go on her merry way or something? Or did Palps kill him before he learned of his location?
AND Did Anakin know that he was created? Was the whole prophecy revealed to him?

[Glocksman]

Plagueis's technique was to create life. My personal theory with very little canon support is that Plagueis used his life creation to make Sidious, a Sith Lord of exceptional power equal to Yoda, the greatest Jedi of the past millenium. To balance this, the living Force spawned Anakin, the Chosen One who would destroy Sidious and restore balance to the Force.

Doesn't the concept of balance imply equivalence?
If so, then the creation of Palpatine himself would help to restore the balance that was so out of whack with so many Jedi and so few Sith.
In fact, Palpatine did (inadvertently) restore balance, first by wiping out almost all of the Jedi, and then by consenting to being killed at the height of his power.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I've yet to see a reason why everyone wants to think that Palpatine had anything to do with the creation of Anakin.

From what i can see Palpatine was Plagius's student. Plagius knew the force technique "cheat death" but didn't teach it to Palpy. My guess is that Palpy then murdered him in his sleep in a fit of rage over that. Then comes Anakin a guy terrified of losing those he loves so the cheat death is a wee carrot to dangle in front of Anakin, make him realise there is more than the Jedi way. Bringing it up that way made Anakin blind to the realisation that Palpatine was leading him astray.

That makes sense.

Yes, i agree with this theory. It doesnt go too far out on a limb to stretch SOD to fit, and it does actually make sense, unlike a lot of 'non-canon' theories that pop up.

[Kurgan]

virgin birth != immaculate conception

Carry on!

[Manus Celer Dei]

I noticed something intresting when I was reading the novelisation again yesterday.

In the movie, Palpatine says that Plaugeis was killed by his apprentice after teaching him all he knew. However, the novel says that Plaugeis taught his apprentice "the path to this power". So Palpatine could have been Plaugeis' apprentice and still not have learnt it, he just knows the "path" to it.

Of course, this is all moot since movie>novelisation, but I thought it was an intresting little difference.

[Eframepilot]

I noticed something intresting when I was reading the novelisation again yesterday.

In the movie, Palpatine says that Plaugeis was killed by his apprentice after teaching him all he knew. However, the novel says that Plaugeis taught his apprentice "the path to this power". So Palpatine could have been Plaugeis' apprentice and still not have learnt it, he just knows the "path" to it.

Of course, this is all moot since movie>novelisation, but I thought it was an intresting little difference.

No, it's still valid, as Sidious was canonically lying when he said the apprentice had been taught all Plagueis knew. Sidious admitted to Vader in the movie that he didn't know the precise method of immortality but promised that they would discover it together; by then, Anakin had gone too far to back out.