Bespin Atmosphere Question

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-08-13 07:21pm

How is it that Bespin has a breathable atmosphere? I was always under the impression that gas giants were made up of hydrogen, and other non-breathable gases.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2005-08-13 07:32pm

Well it could be a brethable layer of gas.... or they use forcefields to keep bubbles of air around the city for conveinience.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-08-13 07:41pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Well it could be a brethable layer of gas.... or they use forcefields to keep bubbles of air around the city for conveinience.

I thought about them using shields to hold in air around landing pads, but what about the bottom of Cloud City, where Luke falls out of? Why would they have a field there?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-08-13 07:44pm

Cloud City is Located in so called "life zone" in Bespin, so I think there's probaly enough oxygen there.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-08-13 07:48pm

Lord Revan wrote:Cloud City is Located in so called "life zone" in Bespin, so I think there's probaly enough oxygen there.

Where was this mentioned?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-13 07:48pm

Yeah, that's basically the case.

It was mentioned in several sources, including Galaxy Guide 2 and the Illustrated Star Wars Universe.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-08-13 07:50pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, that's basically the case.

It was mentioned in several sources, including Galaxy Guide 2 and the Illustrated Star Wars Universe.

OK, thanks.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-08-13 08:42pm

IIRC, one of the Young Jedi Knights books (and Jedi Search, both KJA, *cringe*) had people walking around the clouds far away from Cloud City.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-13 08:49pm

That's because the Life Zone is an altitude-related area that goes across the whole planet, IIRC. It's not restricted to a specific area. At the least, it's actually pretty large.

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2005-08-13 09:03pm

There was a really major technical faux pas in the Marvel series that actually showed Luke falling off Cloud City and onto the surface of Bespin where there were lots of Ughnaughts, implying Ughnaughts were from there.

But thankfully WotC retconned it to that the surface Luke fell to was a floating platform instead, further down in the Life Zone. And in the interim, WEG had already established the Ughnaughts homeworld as Gentes.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2005-08-13 10:03pm

Well, Gentes' population was obliterated by General Grievous.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-08-14 03:08am

President Sharky wrote:Well, Gentes' population was obliterated by General Grievous.

Obviously he missed some.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-14 03:10am

Perhaps not.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-08-14 03:22am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Perhaps not.

Right...

But yes, by the time GG devestated their homeworld, the Ugnaughts were already quite diseminated throughout the galaxy through their collection as slaves in millenia past and eventual release or escape, and thus survived as a species. The heavily populated planet Umgul's primary inhabitants are Ugnaughts.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2005-08-14 11:17am

The life zone, IIRC, is a highly habitable band in the atmosphere that encircles the entire planet. The Illustrated Star Wars or whatever that book is called depicted a wide variety of life living in it, including baloon-shaped creatures called Beldons, and floating plankton that resembled natural islands bobbing around in the clouds. Really impressive.

When you consider how large a typical gas giant is, the Life Zone becomes even more amazing...you could accomodate hundreds of billions of people in floating cities spread throughout the life band without any of the floating cities being that close together. It's also amazing to think of how much life the zone would already support in terms of beldons, floating plankton, et cetera.

The only truely unrealistic aspect of Bespin was the fact that on approach to Cloud City, you could see Tibannopolis. Why would anyone put another floating city so close to an existing one on such a large planet, when each floating city has its own landing pads and can support space travel, and when putting two floating cities close together considerably increases the risk of collision? If Tibannopolis had some kind of systems failure (highly likely since it had been an abandoned ghost town for decades prior to TESB) and was blown by the winds into Cloud City, the result would be disastrous...were I suddenly made Barron Administrator of Cloud City, my first order would be to have Tibannopolis blown out of the sky.

Grand Admiral Mango · Post by **Grand Admiral Mango** » 2005-08-14 01:10pm

RThurmont wrote:If Tibannopolis had some kind of systems failure (highly likely since it had been an abandoned ghost town for decades prior to TESB)

Why exactly was Tibannopolis abandonned? I don't seem to recall myself. Had it become unstable?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-14 02:40pm

That wasn't Tibannopolis. It was just a smaller gas refinery station. Tibannopolis is actually pretty far away from Cloud City.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2005-08-14 03:50pm

Tibannopolis, like many gas mining operations on Bespin, was abandoned due to economic reasons ("instability" would never be grounds for abandonment-you would just inspect and repair the reactors and repulsorlift systems). The costs of operating a floating city for mining purposes are astronomical, and many builders of stations dramatically overestimated the demand for certain types of gasses, according to the Illustrated Star Wars book, and basically, also according to that book, fluctuations in the gas price markets forced a large number of operations out of business. Tibannopolis was one of them

This scenario is completely plausible, as the same thing happens in any natural resources industry when a "rush" occurs...many new entrants emerge, but then a substantial number of these are forced out of business as the industry matured.

BTW, Spanky, you may be right about that not being Tibannopolis, as it does seem to resemble a freestanding refinery. However, the emphasis is on the word "may." There is no really comprehensive image of the exterior of Tibannopolis, and Tibannopolis, like the refineries depicted in the Illustrated Star Wars, is rust-orange. Also, I don't recall having seen any marker lights turned on at that station, and I suspect if it were in use, those lights would be visible. However, in all probability, Tibannopolis IS close to Cloud City, since the Illustrated Star Wars describes it as being a popular tourist attraction for daredevils and privacy-seeking lovers. I don't see it being that heavily visited if it were on the opposite side of a huge gas giant.

If that station is an operating gas refinery, however, its placement across from Cloud City is even dumber. The only reason I can think of for putting another refining and extraction station next to Cloud City would be if Cloud City was overutilized and experiencing capacity shortages, which is unlikely, given the sheer size of the station and the fact that it is a "small operation." Also, the danger of having two stations close together would become even more severe, since instead of exposing one ultra-sophisticated, highly populated installation to severe damage or destruction resulting from a collision, you now are exposing two modern installations.

That said, having that station right across the way did make for a rather cool scene in TESB.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-08-14 04:12pm

The gas refineries (like the one in the SE of ESB) are where the gas is, well, extracted and refined. Cloud City only serves as a collecting/storage area for the gas-canisters, before they are shipped off-planet. (IIRC)

Besides the two cities and the refineries, there are health spas (floating balloon-structure seen above CC through the Falcon´s cockpt) and hotels (Ralph McQuarrie drawing).

Are there any other floating cities on the planet other than the two mentioned?

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2005-08-14 04:35pm

The gas refineries (like the one in the SE of ESB) are where the gas is, well, extracted and refined. Cloud City only serves as a collecting/storage area for the gas-canisters, before they are shipped off-planet. (IIRC)

Enh no. It's made clear in TESB, the Illustrated Star Wars, the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, and elsewhere, that Cloud City itself extracts and refines gas. Even if it wasn't, the logic of having extraction and refining facilities seperate from the main transportation facility is dubious at best, especially in a universe where shielding exists that could isolate any conceivable fire or explosion resulting from the process. It's worth pointing out that transporting gas from the refining platform to Cloud City on a continous basis, without the aid of a pipeline, would be an expensive and time consuming process, and could substantially reduce the profitability of Cloud City's mining operations.

The large boom on the bottom of Cloud City is apparently designed to serve exactly the purpose of extracting the gas and pumping it into refining operations. Once the gas is refined, it is frozen in carbonite in the infamous chambers ("This facility is primitive, but it should be adequete for preserving Luke Skywalker for his journey to the Emperor) and then loaded onto transports for delivery to its final destination. Too bad they don't have hyperspace pipelines...that would make transporting the gas even easier...alas.

Any additional refining plant would be adding additional capacity, supplementing Cloud City, rather than being a vital part of Cloud City's own processing chain.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-14 05:14pm

RThurmont wrote:BTW, Spanky, you may be right about that not being Tibannopolis, as it does seem to resemble a freestanding refinery. However, the emphasis is on the word "may." There is no really comprehensive image of the exterior of Tibannopolis, and Tibannopolis, like the refineries depicted in the Illustrated Star Wars, is rust-orange. Also, I don't recall having seen any marker lights turned on at that station, and I suspect if it were in use, those lights would be visible. However, in all probability, Tibannopolis IS close to Cloud City, since the Illustrated Star Wars describes it as being a popular tourist attraction for daredevils and privacy-seeking lovers. I don't see it being that heavily visited if it were on the opposite side of a huge gas giant.

I didn't say that it was on the other side of the planet, I just said that it was pretty far away from Cloud City. Something can be far away without being on the other side of a planet: example, Chicago, New York, and London can be considered far away from Des Moines.

Additionally, I recall that Tibannopolis was listing due to the repulsors gradually failing.

If that station is an operating gas refinery, however, its placement across from Cloud City is even dumber. The only reason I can think of for putting another refining and extraction station next to Cloud City would be if Cloud City was overutilized and experiencing capacity shortages, which is unlikely, given the sheer size of the station and the fact that it is a "small operation." Also, the danger of having two stations close together would become even more severe, since instead of exposing one ultra-sophisticated, highly populated installation to severe damage or destruction resulting from a collision, you now are exposing two modern installations.

Or it could be owned by a different company, such as something offworld.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-14 05:21pm

Oh, and just for the record, GG2 states that the Life Zone is "150 kilometers down from space and is 30 kilometers deep."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-14 05:46pm

Okay, looking through my various sources, I've been able to multiple citations for there being more tibanna gas refineries at Bespin than just Cloud City, there in fact being multiple ones. I've also confirmed that the structure seen on the left side of the frame in the image below is one of these refineries and not Tibannopolis:

Various sources confirm this, such as the Illustrated Star Wars Universe. Additionally, the images of Tibannopolis shown in the book don't correspond with the structure of the above refinery (for which there seems to be the possibility that it's automated).

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2005-08-14 10:46pm

I reviewed the Illustrated Star Wars universe, and it does not "confirm" it. The refinery may or may not be Tibannopolis...I can't tell if it is listing or not, but the listing of Tibannopolis is not dramatic, based on pictures in The Illustrated Star Wars book.

The book does not mention any refinery located across from Cloud City. The refinery in question resembles a pair of refineries depicted in that book. However, since no external image of Tibannopolis in its entirety is offered, we can't honestly say if that is Tibannopolis, or a newer refinery, after all, it's quite possible that Tibannopolis was built from a standard design plan the same as the newer refineries depicted elsewhere in that book.

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to say if that's Tibannopolis, one way or another, since again, we don't have a full exterior shot, and nothing in that refinery design seems to contradict the few images of Tibannopolis that are availible. If you could review your other sources, that would be great, as that might give us more of a multi-perspective look at the dillemma.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-14 11:05pm

They all basically say the same thing: that it's just a refinery with no mention of Tibannopolis.

And frankly, I think the burden of proof is on you to confirm it is Tibannopolis, since you're above responce is just a wishy-washy way to say that you think it still is, or that at least you don't want to just make a decision.