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I've been thinking about ESB for a little while. Everyone knows the "How did Obi-Wan not know about Leia if he was there at the Birth?" nit-pick, but I was also thinking about this:
The Reason that Yoda is pleading with Luke not to leave is that he doesn't want Luke to die fighting Vader before he's ready. Yoda also knows that Leia (Luke's sister and the "Other" hope) is in Vader's clutches, and Yoda explicitly says that he thinks that she could/will die wether Luke goes or not. So with Luke gone, and Leia down for the count as well (even if she lives she's Vader's prisoner anyway, and then she's as good as dead) there's no way that either of the Skywalkers are available as the "Other" one. So who is it?

Wedge Antilles would be my bet. From the movies we've seen him survive Yavin, the Hoth land battle, the Hoth breakout (implied), survive the initial fighter engagement above Endor, flies into the DSII superstructure, navigates it to the core, helps blow it up, navigates out again and makes it back.

He's either very lucky or down with the force.

Of course it's more likely to be some nameless (as yet) indigine somewhere out in the bum end of the galaxy. It's a big galaxy after all.

It's clear that Yoda meant Leia. He says as much in 'Jedi, though less explicitly: "There...is...another...Sky...walk...er"

Although Leia was indeed in Vader's evil clutches, she wasn't about to be corrupted by the Dark Side, and presumably would be available in the long term if she doesn't get killed. At some point she would be released, or would escape. Perhaps Yoda could forsee her escape after all....

As for some unnamed schmoe being the "other" hope, well, that's silly. In Lucas' galaxy the Skywalkers, and particularly the Skywalker men, are the stars. Everyone else is just a bit player.

SCRawl wrote:It's clear that Yoda meant Leia. He says as much in 'Jedi, though less explicitly: "There...is...another...Sky...walk...er"

Although Leia was indeed in Vader's evil clutches, she wasn't about to be corrupted by the Dark Side, and presumably would be available in the long term if she doesn't get killed. At some point she would be released, or would escape. Perhaps Yoda could forsee her escape after all....

As for some unnamed schmoe being the "other" hope, well, that's silly. In Lucas' galaxy the Skywalkers, and particularly the Skywalker men, are the stars. Everyone else is just a bit player.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure about this. I reckon Yoda got a last-minute tip or something, and was counting on it working out that Leia would get away, so even if they lost Luke they would be able to reach her somehow (perhaps via Ben contacting her and sending her to Dagobah?).

SCRawl wrote:It's clear that Yoda meant Leia. He says as much in 'Jedi, though less explicitly: "There...is...another...Sky...walk...er"

Although Leia was indeed in Vader's evil clutches, she wasn't about to be corrupted by the Dark Side, and presumably would be available in the long term if she doesn't get killed. At some point she would be released, or would escape. Perhaps Yoda could forsee her escape after all....

However Yoda explicitly states that they would probably die. And considering that she would be spending her time under constant guard untill Vader was finished playing with her, and then ordered her previous death sentence finally carried out there was absolutley no hope that she'd escape, unless (Like on the Death Star) Vader wanted her to escape, and that'd probably be worse off in the long run rather than better...

Straha wrote:
However Yoda explicitly states that they would probably die.

Actually, he said nothing of the sort. When Luke asked if they were going to die Yoda said "uncertain their fate is. Always in motion is the future"

dworkin wrote:Wedge Antilles would be my bet. From the movies we've seen him survive Yavin, the Hoth land battle, the Hoth breakout (implied), survive the initial fighter engagement above Endor, flies into the DSII superstructure, navigates it to the core, helps blow it up, navigates out again and makes it back.

He's either very lucky or down with the force.

In one of the books it is comfirmed that he has no force sensitivity and is just a kick ass pilot.

Agent Fisher wrote:In one of the books it is comfirmed that he has no force sensitivity and is just a kick ass pilot.

While I'm aware of the EU fluff on Wedge, it is not apparent from the movies alone. He is a good candidate for 'the other' if Leia was out of the picture.

dworkin wrote:

Agent Fisher wrote:In one of the books it is comfirmed that he has no force sensitivity and is just a kick ass pilot.

While I'm aware of the EU fluff on Wedge, it is not apparent from the movies alone. He is a good candidate for 'the other' if Leia was out of the picture.

While the EU in question did not exist at this point, considering that it does now, and is canon, Wedge is completely ruled out as being "the other" even though the movies themselves are not clear.

Perhaps Yoda simply told Luke that he was uncertain about Leia's fate, because that was part of the test.. perhaps Leia's escape from Bespin was already assured and was never doubted for a moment in Yoda's visions.

Recall, after all, that Luke's journey to Bespin had no effect on what happened to the others. The only difference he made to them was that they had to make a small detour to rescue him from the underside of the city.


As for Wedge, why can't he simply be skilled and lucky? Surely it's possible for a person to be good without being Force sensitive, like Han, for example.

Cykeisme wrote: Recall, after all, that Luke's journey to Bespin had no effect on what happened to the others. The only difference he made to them was that they had to make a small detour to rescue him from the underside of the city.

I wouldn't call keeping Vader occupied during the escape no effect. His command and overall presence could easily have prevented a successful escape.

It's Leia.
Obi-Wan: "The other Yoda spoke of is your twin sister."

ds615 wrote:It's Leia.
Obi-Wan: "The other Yoda spoke of is your twin sister."

That was in reference to Yoda's comment that there was another Skywalker. It's fairly apparent that he also meant this to be the "other hope" to which he alluded with Kenobi in ESB, but it isn't explicit.

dworkin wrote:Wedge Antilles would be my bet. From the movies we've seen him survive Yavin, the Hoth land battle, the Hoth breakout (implied), survive the initial fighter engagement above Endor, flies into the DSII superstructure, navigates it to the core, helps blow it up, navigates out again and makes it back.

He's either very lucky or down with the force.

Of course it's more likely to be some nameless (as yet) indigine somewhere out in the bum end of the galaxy. It's a big galaxy after all.

wdge is very skilled and very lucky, but not force sensitive!

That's already been said, Korte. Please do read the thread before posting...

Straha wrote:I've been thinking about ESB for a little while. Everyone knows the "How did Obi-Wan not know about Leia if he was there at the Birth?" nit-pick, but I was also thinking about this:

About that nitpick. I always thought at it could be easily explained as Obi Wan losing hope over the 20+ years. He knows of both but he lacks the confidence during ESB. It seems that around ESB and ROTJ that Obi Wan comes across as nearly hopeless.

The Reason that Yoda is pleading with Luke not to leave is that he doesn't want Luke to die fighting Vader before he's ready. Yoda also knows that Leia (Luke's sister and the "Other" hope) is in Vader's clutches, and Yoda explicitly says that he thinks that she could/will die wether Luke goes or not. So with Luke gone, and Leia down for the count as well (even if she lives she's Vader's prisoner anyway, and then she's as good as dead) there's no way that either of the Skywalkers are available as the "Other" one. So who is it?

It's Leia.

Straha wrote:"How did Obi-Wan not know about Leia if he was there at the Birth?"

Rethorical Question: Can people tell if someone is force sensitive as soon as they are born?

Probable Answer: No.

In other words, Obi-Wan knew of Leia's existence, but not necessarily of the fact that she was force sensitive.

Adrian Laguna wrote:

Straha wrote:"How did Obi-Wan not know about Leia if he was there at the Birth?"

Rethorical Question: Can people tell if someone is force sensitive as soon as they are born?

Probable Answer: No.

In other words, Obi-Wan knew of Leia's existence, but not necessarily of the fact that she was force sensitive.

I never saw it that way. My understanding is that, whether it is logical or not, it was expected that Anakin's offspring would be strong with the Force. Remember the Emperor in ESB: he said that "...the son of Skywalker must not be trained...he would be a powerful ally..."

I recognize that there is no reasonable argument for Force sensitivity to be hereditary, but it clearly was in this case.

I recognize that there is no reasonable argument for Force sensitivity to be hereditary, but it clearly was in this case.

I thought that there was strong evidence, whether it makes sense biologically or not, that Force perception was passed on to childern. Has there ever been a known offspring of a couple that contained a Jedi (or 2) that was not Force sensitive?

Noble Ire wrote:

I recognize that there is no reasonable argument for Force sensitivity to be hereditary, but it clearly was in this case.

I thought that there was strong evidence, whether it makes sense biologically or not, that Force perception was passed on to childern. Has there ever been a known offspring of a couple that contained a Jedi (or 2) that was not Force sensitive?

Check out Mike's treatment of this issue. He wrote this about the subject (in the section "The Force"). I found it compelling.

As for the question of whether or not parents who were sensitive in the Force had ever spawned non-Force sensitive children, I can say that it isn't in the movies, and at that point my ability to care drops off considerably.

Has there ever been a known offspring of a couple that contained a Jedi (or 2) that was not Force sensitive?

In one of the childrens "Jedi Quest" novels, Qui-Gon's evil former padawan Xanotos had a non-force sensitive son.

I think of the force being inheritable in a similar manner as being a drug addict is, in a sense, inheritable. If the mother of a child is on drugs (legal or illegal) during pregnancy, her child will be born addicted to said drug. Of course, the analogy falls apart in that the Skywalker children inherit force sensitivity from the father. It might be possible that Anakin's very presence might be an important factor in the issue... *train of though wanders of somewhere else

There is an interview with Gary Kurtz, that I can't find the link to, but I'm sure that someone here remembers or knows, that said originally that "the other" was going to be left unnamed and that there were no plans for Leia to be Luke's sister. He also said some other stuff about how the prequells might have been made based on what he and Lucas were talking about at the time. As it turned out Lucas parted ways with Kurtz and all that shit changed. Anyway... as the movies go I think, while its not obvious, that the other was always going to be another Skywalker offspring. As it turned out it was Leia. But, according to Kurtz, for sure at the time of filming "the other" had not been specified by name yet.

Help me out on the details if anyone has a link or a copy or just remembers.

It is known that the Jedi Rahn visited Yoda on Dagobah before this, and was sent away, looking for Rusaan, the planet containing the Valley of the Jedi possibly with the aim of gaining its power and defeating Palpatine, after learning the secret of Qui Gon and was elevated to the rank of Master. If we ignore potential author's intent, this is who he is talking about.

Straha wrote:...Yoda explicitly says that he thinks that she could/will die wether Luke goes or not.

Luke: Will they die?
Yoda: Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.

Hardly "explicitly". Yoda, like in the prequells, doesn't have a fucking clue. The power of the Dark Side hasn't gotten weaker, if anything it has gotten stronger and it still clouds everything. I would guess that 20 years later the Force is all outta whack and any visions that a well meaning Jedi might have would be skewered to draw him to the Dark Side, which is exactly the case with Luke. He sees what is going to make him do all the wrong things. End his training, face Vader before he is ready, risk falling to the Dark Side because of his FEAR of loss of his friends, believe he is ready to face the most fearsome evil in the galaxy... basically all the same wrong decisions Anakin made. Sorry... of topic. I'm kinda drunk.