Luke in RotJ

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-07 12:43am

Okay this could actually be a very old topic so I apologise in advance, but did Luke Force choke the Guards in Jabba's palace in RotJ? And if so did he tread on the Dark Side?

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2002-12-07 12:45am

Yes, it's old.

Yes he force choked them.

And yes he was more than treading on the edge of the Darkside. He was dancing on it.

Look at Luke's whole dress/demeanor. All black. Threatening to kill Jabba if he didn't hand his friends over. Luke was definetly dabbling to some degree. Definetly not walking the straight and narrow.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-07 12:47am

Wow. That was quick. So it wasn't a mind trick or a sleep inducer? But you have to hand it to old Luke, those guards went DOWN quick and smart. Unlike his old pa, who let them gasp and grope to their hearts content.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2002-12-07 12:49am

Perhaps old Vade's enjoyed watching them suffer and flail uselessly.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-07 12:51am

Point. Well this was certainly a thread that needed to be done.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-07 01:04am

It's in the novelisation that they're choked. Lucas has mentioned I believe that Luke's dressing and demenor was that of the a gray matter. You just don't know which way he was going to go.

A note for everyone with Star Wars questions. Get a copy of the novelisations, they usually have like a trilogy book out, it has sooooo much in it. Try to catch the radio dramas on live 365, they have a lot of shit, and if you can find annotated screenplays or scripts those fill in gaps as well.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-12-07 01:43am

Did Luke Choke them or simply make them think they were choking that is the question. The Obvious thing is the guards didn't die

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-07 01:47am

It's very plain. Luke raised his hand and they fell to thier kneeds clutching thier throats. then when he walked on they choaked and gasped 'suddenly able to breathe again.'.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-07 02:59am

What so he didn't kill them? Huh, now that's interesting.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-07 03:26am

Crown wrote:What so he didn't kill them? Huh, now that's interesting.

Didn't keep up the pressure long enough.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-07 07:47pm

He released his grip on them before they died. It says they got back up but didn't dare follow.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-07 08:56pm

Did Luke know he was skirting the Dark Side at this point though? Or did he think it was something that all Jedi did. How much did Luke actually know about Light vs. Dark Side up to this point?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-07 09:05pm

He knew he was skirting the issue. If I get time I'll type up the passage on here. Luke knew he had changed drastically from ANH.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-08 07:38am

Good. I was afraid that in the Special Edition Luke would come out in a radiant white robe and infuse the guards with peace and happiness before walking past to offer Jabba gold in exchange for his friends, rather than offering him his life.

une · Post by **une** » 2002-12-08 10:26am

From a thematic standpoint Luke represents the balance of the Force. he takes the best traits of the Jedi and Sith, while leaving out the wild extremism that both factions had. For example, he lets his emotions guide his actions, unlike the Jedi, but not to an extreme point like the Sith did.

The Force choke, the black robes, and the green lightsaber are a visual cue of this middle ground that Luke walks.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-12-08 02:17pm

So (referencing the atrocity for a moment), Luke is the "Promised One" who brings balance to the Force.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-08 02:39pm

The Dark wrote:So (referencing the atrocity for a moment), Luke is the "Promised One" who brings balance to the Force.

I thought that was Anakin?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-08 03:03pm

I still think Anakin brings balance to the Force. With the Jedi gone, Luke is a grey matter, that leaves two Sith. Vader kills the Emperor and knows he's going with him. There.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-12-08 04:17pm

Hmm...I was thinking more along the lines of Luke is the one who accepts his emotions but not the dark side. I suppose either one could be considered to have brought balance, since it is Anakin's sacrifice that opens the path for Luke to survive beyond the Emperor's evil. This will probably end up being a matter of dispute for quite some time.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-08 04:20pm

Well, we have to argue about something.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-12-08 06:00pm

I don't think you could compare Luke and all following Jedi to the old Jedi Order. Luke had no guidelines on how to act. And maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi purposely kept it this way so that the old Jedi Order would not have the same problems as it did in the beginning. I remember reading how frustrated Luke was in Shadows of the Empire because he simply didn't know how a "real" Jedi should act. I think the new Jedi Order is better because it allows Jedi to have more freedom and it proves to be as effective, if not more, than the old Jedi Order.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-08 07:15pm

Good point, especially in light of the prequels now. Start with Yoda. He was against the council's decision for Anakin to be trained. In Ep II he reminds Obi Wan and Mace that the Jedi are becoming arrogant, even the old, more experienced Jedi. Not to mention the guilt Obi Wan must have had over Anakin. Therefore, it could be safe to say that this was intentional. In Destiny's Way, Vergere is outraged that Jedi have emotional ties such as marriage. However they do prove to be effective just still seaking out the right path.

une · Post by **une** » 2002-12-08 07:46pm

So (referencing the atrocity for a moment), Luke is the "Promised One" who brings balance to the Force.

In a way yes, and in another way no.

Vader wasn't the one to actually spread the ideals that represent balance of the Force, but he was the one who cleared out the older incorrect ideas of the Jedi and the Sith. Basically, Ani did the dirty work. He killed all the infidels, Jedi and Sith, who would corrupt Luke with their bad ideas, and allowed for Luke's way to flourish unimpeded.

I think it was a twofold prophecy that had Ani do all the work, and Luke get all the credit.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-12-08 09:47pm

The old Jedi Order was great except it became arrogant and did not have a big enough role in peacekeeping. It's just that the new Jedi Order is an improvement. I think it would have been better if Anakin was never trained, therefore the Jedi Order would have remained and maybe after defeating Palpatine, would have learned to change its ways and become more like the new Jedi Order. Even if Anakin was never trained, he still would have had a son or daughter with the same strength in the Force as Luke. So his child or children would have been even stronger than Luke ever was because they would have had the proper training at a much younger age. So overall the old Jedi Order would have been MUCH better than the new Jedi Order had it survived.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-09 07:11am

That Luke is one sadistic bastard... he let the guards live, so he could slaughter them wholesale, along with their buddies on the skiff with his lightsaber.

Oh... real nice guy there. ; )

Well, I suppose he could have choked them into unconsciousness and let it go at that. The whole scene reminds me of something Paul Atreides would do, you know, he's seen it play out in his prescient mind already, if this guy does this, then this will happen, but if he does this, etc. so say the right words and do the right actions and you get the outcome you want.