Cloaking Device

[Waddles McGee]

In SW 5, ESB the Falcon narrowily avoids the SD's Bridge, and then some guy(forgot his name) says "No ship that small has a cloaking device!"

How come we never see a cloak in Star Wars and why cant a ship that small have a cloaK?I read an article stating somewhere that the TIE Phantom has a cloaking device, and thats at least 6 times smaller than the YT-1300 class Freighter!

[Perseid]

In SW 5, ESB the Falcon narrowily avoids the SD's Bridge, and then some guy(forgot his name) says "No ship that small has a cloaking device!"

How come we never see a cloak in Star Wars and why cant a ship that small have a cloaK?I read an article stating somewhere that the TIE Phantom has a cloaking device, and thats at least 6 times smaller than the YT-1300 class Freighter!

IIRC the TIE Phantom was an experimental fighter from the game Rebel Assault 2, the fact that the experimental cloak is only mentioned in the game is due to the fact that none of the tech ever left the facility.

The issue with a cloaking device on the Falcon could be for any number of reasons, it could be that the older cloaking devices were power hungry, or to large to be installed on a ship that is only a converted light stock frieghter. Another issue might be that the Empire are the only ones with working cloaks for ships of that size and Captain Needa, the officer who makes the cloaking device statement, might be wondering how the Rebels could have gotten hold of one of these devices.

[bilateralrope]

In SW 5, ESB the Falcon narrowily avoids the SD's Bridge, and then some guy(forgot his name) says "No ship that small has a cloaking device!"

How come we never see a cloak in Star Wars and why cant a ship that small have a cloaK?I read an article stating somewhere that the TIE Phantom has a cloaking device, and thats at least 6 times smaller than the YT-1300 class Freighter!

IIRC the TIE Phantom was an experimental fighter from the game Rebel Assault 2, the fact that the experimental cloak is only mentioned in the game is due to the fact that none of the tech ever left the facility.

The issue with a cloaking device on the Falcon could be for any number of reasons, it could be that the older cloaking devices were power hungry, or to large to be installed on a ship that is only a converted light stock frieghter. Another issue might be that the Empire are the only ones with working cloaks for ships of that size and Captain Needa, the officer who makes the cloaking device statement, might be wondering how the Rebels could have gotten hold of one of these devices.

If he even knows about them

[Waddles McGee]

Valid point. And i guess the reason the Empire doesn't use cloaks that much is to avoid Rebel capture of the technology.

[Lord Revan]

The TIE Phantom project was probaly highly classified, so a mere Captain like Needa wouldn't access to it or even knownlage of it (after all there rumors that Palpatine had cloak capable shuttle (those aren't that much bigger then the Falcon)).

[Waddles McGee]

Yeah. It seems likely that the knowledge would be limited to palpatine and a few scientists, i doubt even vader would have been trusted. After all, the emperor did send him to the death star because he was displeased with vader, screwing up turning luke and all.

EDIT:Oops, Emperor got displeased AFTER ESB, not before or until the end.

[Perseid]

Valid point. And i guess the reason the Empire doesn't use cloaks that much is to avoid Rebel capture of the technology.

And with that you've really just answered your own questions about the Empire and cloaking devices.

Now that this fundimental question, wait no it's not a fundimental question but what the hey, has been answered I'm going to go off and ponder the meaning of God's last words. For those of you that don't know what these words are then read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, A Trilogy in Four Parts.

[Waddles McGee]

Yep. Question answered, hunger filled, case closed.

[Ghost Rider]

Cloaking devices are used but require to be so finely tuned to avoid sensor detection for radiating heat and gravity.

They've stated before if neither are met the Crystal Gravity Trap is unneeded.

Also in HTTE, smaller cloaking is easily done...it's larger that is more complex and energy hungry. The Emperor's shuttle is also equipped with such and it is GENERALLY known.

The most potent part was cost, to which anyone would be astounded that the Millenium Falcon, a smuggler's craft would have such a piece of technology at it's beck and call. And was the ONLY logical inference he thought of, since Han's manuver was regarded as extremely risky.

[Manus Celer Dei]

One thing that's always confused me is that Qui-Gon thought that it was possible that Amidala's ship in TPM might have a cloak. But Amidala's ship is smaller than the Falcon, if not the same size. Is there any explantion there?

[Ghost Rider]

One thing that's always confused me is that Qui-Gon thought that it was possible that Amidala's ship in TPM might have a cloak. But Amidala's ship is smaller than the Falcon, if not the same size. Is there any explantion there?

Like I stated above.

1. Han's craft was a smuggler's craft.

2. The Emperor's Shuttle did. As well as Darth Maul's personal craft.

3. It's costly both in energy and in installation.

In fact Maul's craft was a better cloak that most designs of the Imperial Era, but that also marked it's rarity.

[Havok]

In the Heir to the Empire series don't they state that the drawbacks of using a cloak is that it works both way. Enemies can't see you but in turn you can't see them. You effectively blind yourself. That would explain why Maul and Sidious both had them. They can use the Force to guide the ships while the cloaks are functional.

[nightmare]

IIRC the TIE Phantom was an experimental fighter from the game Rebel Assault 2, the fact that the experimental cloak is only mentioned in the game is due to the fact that none of the tech ever left the facility.

It must have survived, since Thrawn used the same tech.

In TPM it's the question of another type of cloaking device based on stygium crystals. Which was a "perfect" cloak, ie, one-way. That type of cloak basically ran out of being used since they only had one source of it and stygium degraded with use (although there is another planet that has the crystals, but it has escaped being mined as it was a closely guarded and later probably lost secret). My personal speculation is that degraded stygium was used for the coating of the Knight Hammer (Stygium-Triprismatic Polymer).

We were just unlucky that Darth Maul's ship didn't uncloak onscreen, it would have been interesting.

[Vicious]

Yeah. It seems likely that the knowledge would be limited to palpatine and a few scientists, i doubt even vader would have been trusted. After all, the emperor did send him to the death star because he was displeased with vader, screwing up turning luke and all.

EDIT:Oops, Emperor got displeased AFTER ESB, not before or until the end.

Actually, Vader was aware of the TIE Phantom project, as he watched a demonstration of their effectiveness in a cutscene in Rebel Assault 2.

[NeoGoomba]

Is the cloaking system from Rebel Assault 2 the same system developed by Zaarin?

[NRS Guardian]

The cloaking device developed by Zaarin is a prototype of the one used in TTT, which makes sense considering Thrawn knew where to look for one. The cloaks used by Maul's Infiltrator and the TIE Phantoms weren't double-blind which implies both are stygium-based considering this is one of the advantages of the stygium cloak, counter-balanced by their rarity. Also, in the NEGTW&T it says that the term cloak also applies to devices that can't defeat visual detection.

[Connor MacLeod]

The term "cloaking device" incorporates a wide variety and type of devices and effects. There are some that render a ship totally invisible, some that don't (fetts "cloaking device" is an obvious example.) There are ones that are double blind, ones that aren't,. Etc..

[nightmare]

The cloaking device developed by Zaarin is a prototype of the one used in TTT, which makes sense considering Thrawn knew where to look for one. The cloaks used by Maul's Infiltrator and the TIE Phantoms weren't double-blind which implies both are stygium-based considering this is one of the advantages of the stygium cloak, counter-balanced by their rarity. Also, in the NEGTW&T it says that the term cloak also applies to devices that can't defeat visual detection.

NEGTW&T is overridden by game cutscenes, plus the fact that simple EPRs would easily detect a cloaked ship if this was the case. I'm not entirely sure about the V-38 cloak being one-way outside game mechanics. It wouldn't make sense continuity-wise if they were.

EDIT: Come to think of it, this may simply be case of sloppy designation, like with MacLeod's example. Calling it a cloak when it's really passive stealth. Then again, why is there a special word for active stealth?

The term "cloaking device" incorporates a wide variety and type of devices and effects. There are some that render a ship totally invisible, some that don't (fetts "cloaking device" is an obvious example.) There are ones that are double blind, ones that aren't,. Etc..

Isn't the non-invisible cloak more of a case of sloppy designation for what is really a passive stealth system, as oppposed to an active stealth system?

[Elheru Aran]

NRS Guardian:

Didn't Thrawn retrive the cloaking devices from Mount Tantiss?

[Tychu]

Valid point. And i guess the reason the Empire doesn't use cloaks that much is to avoid Rebel capture of the technology.

well in Rebel Assault 2, your character and a "friend" steal a TIE Phantom and return it to one of the Rebel outposts, this is all after a massive Imperial squadron of the damn Phantoms try to blow the living daylights out of you. Anyways you get back to the base and

spoilers for a 11 year old game





kaboom the Phantom blows up, the Imps seemed to have put a tracker or a timed bomb on it, and the Rebels don't learn the secretes to the small ship cloaking device

[Sea Skimmer]

Isn't the non-invisible cloak more of a case of sloppy designation for what is really a passive stealth system, as oppposed to an active stealth system?

Without knowing how the systems work, you couldn't say if they are active or passive or not. A system could still be active even if it doesn't provide concealment against visual observation.

[nightmare]

Isn't the non-invisible cloak more of a case of sloppy designation for what is really a passive stealth system, as oppposed to an active stealth system?

Without knowing how the systems work, you couldn't say if they are active or passive or not. A system could still be active even if it doesn't provide concealment against visual observation.

So you're okay with redefining the term "cloak" to include active stealth, non-visual concealment? Because that's not how we treat the term in my knowledge.

[Connor MacLeod]

Most cloaking devices are by definition (in SW at least) "active" forms of ECM/stealth regardless of what sorts of "cloaking" they provide.

This is up to and including the "camoflage shields" mode Imperial warships can employ (Lando Calrissian and the StarCave of Thonboka), Fett's cloaking device, the "Decoy beam" from X-wing vs TIE fighter/X-wing Alliance (which works basically like a Minbari stealth device, btw.), the thrawn cloak, the Rebel Assault 2 cloak, the cloaking projects Zaarin raided, etc.

The Imperial Sourcebook definition of Cloaking devices is good for this:

"The idea of cloaking or hiding a vessel from either visual or sensor pickup has been a goal of everyone who designs space vehicles."

And: "In fact, it was determined that a singular breakthrough in cloaking technology was highly unlikely, and the Empire has pursued a combined approach ever since.

The current test model is a device comprised of a number of inter-related systems and technologies, specifically designed to provide total protection."

Passive systems tend to operate under other measures: "sensor masks" (The outrider had a mask, and was mentioned in "Tales of the new Republic" IIRC.) that physically coat the hull.. "stealth armor" like the night Hammer used, etc. Or something simple as "running silent."

[Havok]

Well stealth is only as good as the source trying to track it. And stealth tech usually can be seen. A true cloak can't be seen or detected by any means, That's my take.

[nightmare]

Yes, Connor, I'm aware that the term "cloak" is treated loosely in SW canon, by your own example if nothing else. As far as I know, we use the term only to describe a specific, invisible cloaking, and that's what I referred to.