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It's an endless Trekky jerk off that although Federation redshirts don't wear camo, neither do stormtroopers.

Me and my brother have had long talks about this, and we reckon it's basically for the same reason that police officers over here still wear tall helmets- high visibility is part of the stormtrooper mandate. Stormtroopers are designed to be a psychological weapon, a deterrent for crime and rebel activity.

When you look at the films, most of the times you see Stormtroopers they are playing the role of police officers or security guards- on Tatooine they were clearly acting as police officers, shipboard security on the Deathstar, counter-terrorism on Bespin.

When they were acting in a pure assault role on Hoth, the snowtroopers obviously were camouflaged. Basically the only time I could think of that the Stormtroopers really should have been wearing camo is on Endor, and the arrogance of their commanding officers has been established there.

In the EU I believe it does state that Stormtroopers started wearing camo regularly after Endor- probably for the same reason they started giving their ISDs cloaking devices, they would be increasingly involved in the kind of geurilla actions that the rebels did against them, and the high visibility/deterrant role became subordinate to this.

Obviously if anybody has experience in the military and wishes to correct me, please do so.

It's highly probable that, as the enforcers of Imperial law in the galaxy, the Imperials were just so arrogant that they would give their Stormies only the formal white armor.
After getting their ass kicked at Endor, the Imps probably started issuing camo equipment to their Stormies.
A little Quiz: There IS one case where we see Stromtroopers with camoflage...
Anybody an idea when that was?

Battle of Hoth?

Storm Troopers were designed as a terror weapon just like AT AT's since far better designs could be made but for shear terror inducing power an AT AT ranks high.

Right, it was thinking of Hoth.
They wore suits under their armor plates which were white, this clearly indicates camo was intended.
Calling them Terror Weapons is perhaps a little bit exagarated, fact is that their white armor is more or less a formal uniform.
Remember also that Stormies have to fullfill police duties and such.
I'd say when deployed in a real ground combat situation, the Empire will issue them camo armor, especially after the bad experiences at Endor.

Yeah, I remember reading that they learned their lesson on Endor and start wearing environment appropriate gear.

Cpt_Frank wrote:After getting their ass kicked at Endor, the Imps probably started issuing camo equipment to their Stormies.

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Pg. 234: "You think real stormies would raid a jungle village wearing white?"

Iella hesitated. "But on Endor, in the forests there, reports I heard...."

"Trust me, Iella, they learned from that mistake. Getting drubbed by a Wookiee and a bunch of Ewoks convinced them to institute some reforms."
========================
-The Bacta War

I think that the Stormtroopers are the Emperor's politically reliable army, like Hitler's SS. Look at where they fought--directly under the Emperor's hatchet man (Vader), guarding the Death Star, and in a trap set up by the Emperor.

I just have this notion that the Emperor feared the power of his own military. He made the Death Stars to give himself the power not just to fully subjugate the galaxy, but to preclude the possibility of a mutiny in his navy removing him from power. And he uses the Stormies to cut his army out of the loop.

I'm leaning towards the security force turned into Emperor SS.Let's try it this way.

The Old Republic is falling into disarray,you push the veto through the Senate for a new security force called the Storm Troopers.They are mobilised,given the training,and sent to work.

Over the years,as the civil disturbance gets worse and worse,they are increasingly called into combat situations.Meanwhile,they are also used as a political power tool by the Chancellor,used to intimidate his opponents.

Give or take a few decades,voila,the image of the Stormtrooper is born.As for historical parrallels,sure there are some.For example,the SS and SA.Or if other wishs,the Special Constables of the British in Malaya during the Emergency.Orginally intended to be nothing more than mere security guards,the increasingly brutal nature of the Emergency meant that these troopers were being involved in military actions,like defence of rubber plantations and tin mines,convoy protection and even road patrols.

I think keeping the Admirals and Generals in order was the job of the Hands of the Emporer, like Mara Jade. Most of the common troops are pretty well indoctrinated

In the Episode 2 Visual Dictionary, for the Clone troopers it mentions that they don't where camoflage because they WANT there enemies to see them coming because they love combat. Its what they live for. Kind of like the Space Marines in 40k, they never where camoflage armor either.

Yah, but they were made that way. The later stormies were trained, and while they were probably more than willing to die for the Emporer, I doubt he would just throw them away carelessly.

Yes, if the enemies sees you, then he would likely shoot at you as well. And then you know just where he is. Not a bad tactic if you're short on time but not manpower, which would be the case for the Empire.

But it takes a long tme to train a stormi.

The Imperial Marines are not an army of manoeuvre, but an army of attrition. They are shock troopers, whose secondary function is to serve as temporary or provisional security and occupation forces -- they are neither intended nor trained to serve as a conventional army, and have much less varied mission profiles than the Imperial Army. As a result, the Marines have little to no need for camouflage in most of their operations.

Consider: The Sanctuary Moon of Endor was known to have only a handful of potentially dangerous species, and the Imperial survey team classified Ewoks as non-threatening and relatively unintelligent. There was no reason to expect engagement with any force of significant size -- were the ground battle restricted solely to the small infiltration force, the stormtroopers' white armour would not have been much of a liability; they were the defenders, and had no need to skulk about unseen.

Publius

David wrote:I think keeping the Admirals and Generals in order was the job of the Hands of the Emporer, like Mara Jade. Most of the common troops are pretty well indoctrinated

I didn't say that the Stormies were supposed to be used to keep the troops in hand, I think they would be used in operations of personal import to the Emperor. It's just a matter of scale--an organization as massive as the Imperial Army or the Navy would have its own hierarchy, tradition, and interests. Even if they are under the direct control of the Emperor, they still have a tradition dating back to the Old Republic, and someone in Palpatine's position is paranoid, as a rule (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and most other absolute dictators were all paranoid).

As I said, it's like the SS. The officers in control of the Wehrmacht had their own Prussian tradition, and a large number of them didn't like Hitler all that much. There was a slim possibility that they would turn against him, or try to sabotage his efforts. But Hitler knew that his SS men were 100% trustworthy, so he preferred to use them on missions of particular interest to him. For example, the primary spearheads during the Ardennes Offensive (the battle that was most directly motivated by Hitler) were SS.

Icehawk wrote:Kind of like the Space Marines in 40k, they never where camoflage armor either.

That's because each chapter has it's own specific colour scheme by which it is recognised. If they all wore camoflage then nobody could tell them apart and chaos space marines could take advantage of this situation.

However it could also be for the fear factor. Just who in their right mind would mess with a squad of 8 to 12 foot tall genetically enhanced super soldiers, wearing extremely tough armour and carrying big nasty guns, or nasty assualt weapons, not even taking into consideration the fearsome reputation of some chapters, eg. Blood Angels, Space Wolves or the Night Lords.

who cares about them shouldnt the nr be worried about the gong monster people invading them, do they wear camo? hmmmmmmmmmm i wonder no they are probabley just invisible

Sith God wrote:who cares about them shouldnt the nr be worried about the gong monster people invading them, do they wear camo? hmmmmmmmmmm i wonder no they are probabley just invisible

We're talking about Stormies, not the Vong.

who care you eu guys got the gong monsters or whatever they are just talk about them because st arent relevant in your eu universe

Sith God wrote:who care you eu guys got the gong monsters or whatever they are just talk about them because st arent relevant in your eu universe

We are not "EU guys" I number of people hate most of the EU.

If you want to discuss the Vong, make another thread!

crap but the way things are now in the sw universe there arent any st left so whats the point unless you write a book that disregards all the eu crap and puts things on track

Sith God wrote:crap but the way things are now in the sw universe there arent any st left so whats the point unless you write a book that disregards all the eu crap and puts things on track

WTF are you talking about? No ST left because of the way the EU is?

Oh and STORMTROOPERS ARE IN THE MOVIES

Pablo Sanchez wrote:

David wrote:I think keeping the Admirals and Generals in order was the job of the Hands of the Emporer, like Mara Jade. Most of the common troops are pretty well indoctrinated

I didn't say that the Stormies were supposed to be used to keep the troops in hand, I think they would be used in operations of personal import to the Emperor. It's just a matter of scale--an organization as massive as the Imperial Army or the Navy would have its own hierarchy, tradition, and interests. Even if they are under the direct control of the Emperor, they still have a tradition dating back to the Old Republic, and someone in Palpatine's position is paranoid, as a rule (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and most other absolute dictators were all paranoid).

As I said, it's like the SS. The officers in control of the Wehrmacht had their own Prussian tradition, and a large number of them didn't like Hitler all that much. There was a slim possibility that they would turn against him, or try to sabotage his efforts. But Hitler knew that his SS men were 100% trustworthy, so he preferred to use them on missions of particular interest to him. For example, the primary spearheads during the Ardennes Offensive (the battle that was most directly motivated by Hitler) were SS.

For the record WOTC RPG supports this. The Rebellion-era Sourcebook (go find the PDD I did ) makes it very clear that the Stormtroopers serve as a seperate branch of the services who report directly to Palpatine without interference from the rest of the military. Whiel tehy might take orders from local commanders to whom they areassigned for a given time period their ultimate loyalty runs along a sperate chain of command that bypasses most traditional command posts.

This meas that Stormtroopers are both Palpatine's personal shock troops for missions that need a different touch than normal subjudgation and his informal police capable of maintaining loyalty throughout the Milkitary-industrial complex because they can't be bribed or bought and serve only to help stabalize the Empire according to Palpatine's wishes.

Well, I'd agree with that.