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I know that there's been soem debate on could blaster hits ignnite unprotected skin (a la Grievous) or was synthskin sack of droid general just so flameble, well It just watch my ANH DVD and Greedo the Rodian got torched in way not so different from Gen. Grievous organic parts.

To me this seems to re-enforse the position that blaster do cause skin to burn if condition are right.

So would this mean that Stormtrooper armor is more protection against the thermal properties of blasters than the balistic properties (if any)? Don't we see the inside of armor ignite outwards somewhat when blasted? So even if a Stormtrooper gets blasted, the wound is relatively minor compared to first-degree burns that would also have been imparted?

NeoGoomba wrote:So even if a Stormtrooper gets blasted, the wound is relatively minor compared to first-degree burns that would also have been imparted?

You mean third degree burns. First degree are the least severe burns and third degree are the most severe.

Lord Sabre Ace wrote:

NeoGoomba wrote:
You mean third degree burns. First degree are the least severe burns and third degree are the most severe.

Errrm yes

To blaster bolts ever "explode" inside targets to some extent, in a smaller scale version of what turbolaser bolts do?

If they do, that would explain Grievous and Greedo.. and if Clone/Stormtrooper armor prevents that from happening inside the trooper, then it does increase the chances of survival (minor wounding, or at worst, incapacitation instead of death) significantly when hit by a blaster.

NeoGoomba wrote:So would this mean that Stormtrooper armor is more protection against the thermal properties of blasters than the balistic properties (if any)?

Look around for references to and quotes from the novels "Lightsabres" and "Tatooine Ghost", if you want some idea of how well Stormie armour handles physical impacts.

Cykeisme wrote:If they do, that would explain Grievous and Greedo.. and if Clone/Stormtrooper armor prevents that from happening inside the trooper, then it does increase the chances of survival (minor wounding, or at worst, incapacitation instead of death) significantly when hit by a blaster.

It's from a game, but from the intro movie for "Force Commander", we see a perfect example of this (damage from a blaster carbine reduced from instantly fatal to merely serious injury).

I had always thought that the idea with the stormtrooper armor was aside from providing a sort of environmental suit with temperature/climate controls to keep the soldier running at peak as long as possible and various sensory enhancements...was to turn a grazing shot away, and never really intending to protect against a direct blast.

Stormtrooper (and presumably clonetrooper armor) apparently has some form of shielding (not neccesarily deflector shielding, some more "contact" form of ray shields or powered armor, ,sort of like what is implied for the AT-AT and the Clone military vehicles.) This is mentioned explicitly in the ANH novel, and the OT VD makes note of stormtrooper armor carrying some form of heat sinks on the belt.

Regarding Grievous and his organs, its rather obvious nothing was ignited inside his suit - the flames weren't persistant or sustained the way you would suspect if a flammable material was ignited. Rather, it seems quite likely that the interior of his armor absorbed the heat and reflected it inwards, effectively turning Grievous' chest cavity into a cremation furnace (that is, the shots hit the armor, heated it up/spread across the interior, ,and the resulting thermal effects cooked his organs enough to reduce them to ash. And some of that heat apparently conducted its way up to his head, which lead to his brain exploding the way it did.)

Lord_Xerxes wrote:I had always thought that the idea with the stormtrooper armor was aside from providing a sort of environmental suit with temperature/climate controls to keep the soldier running at peak as long as possible and various sensory enhancements

That's a description of the functions of the black body glove. The armor plates go on top of that.

Lord_Xerxes wrote:..was to turn a grazing shot away, and never really intending to protect against a direct blast.

Yeah, it would turn grazing shots away, possibly negating certain minor hits entirely. Of course, logically, it would also reduce the effects of a direct blast.. hence what we're saying about reducing guaranteed fatalities into severe injuries instead. With Star Wars medical technology (possibly made easier when mass-treating troops who are clones), those injuries are likely to be survivable and subsequently treatable.

Well we know from canon source scout (clone)trooper armor is quite resistant to heat (a scout trooper got hit by Dwarf Spiderdroid cannon during the battle kashyyyk and only the area of impact was burned), since regular trooper armor is better we can assume it's heat resisnt as well (though not enough to withstand a direct hit from a heavy blaster).

in the original trilogy, i think its in ANH when Ben just gets killed, Luke shoots a stormie and the stormtroopers armor catches fire for just a second. It would seem to me that the blaster bolt is unimaginably hot, it seems to melt quite a few things

Connor MacLeod wrote:Stormtrooper (and presumably clonetrooper armor) apparently has some form of shielding (not neccesarily deflector shielding, some more "contact" form of ray shields or powered armor, ,sort of like what is implied for the AT-AT and the Clone military vehicles.) This is mentioned explicitly in the ANH novel, and the OT VD makes note of stormtrooper armor carrying some form of heat sinks on the belt.

Just curious but do you have the quote from the ANH novel handy? I don't recall ever hearing about Stormie personal shielding (or polarized hull plating, whatever), except in the Republic Commando mythos. I'm curious how it was described.

Lord Sabre Ace wrote:

NeoGoomba wrote:So even if a Stormtrooper gets blasted, the wound is relatively minor compared to first-degree burns that would also have been imparted?

You mean third degree burns. First degree are the least severe burns and third degree are the most severe.

I've actually heard of 4th degree burns somewhere.

I've actually heard of 4th degree burns somewhere.

4th degree burns are similar to 3rd degree, except that they penetrate deeper into the skin and are often relatively painless due to nerve destruction.

Lord Revan wrote:Well we know from canon source scout (clone)trooper armor is quite resistant to heat (a scout trooper got hit by Dwarf Spiderdroid cannon during the battle kashyyyk and only the area of impact was burned), since regular trooper armor is better we can assume it's heat resisnt as well (though not enough to withstand a direct hit from a heavy blaster).

Considering that the clone troopers in ROTS were able to walk around Mustafar rather comfortably mere meters away from molten lava hot enough to run virtually like water - suggesting the conditions of the planet are at least comparable to those you might find in or very close to an erupting volcano (to say nothing of more than one!) - they're QUITE thermally resistant.

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:Well we know from canon source scout (clone)trooper armor is quite resistant to heat (a scout trooper got hit by Dwarf Spiderdroid cannon during the battle kashyyyk and only the area of impact was burned), since regular trooper armor is better we can assume it's heat resisnt as well (though not enough to withstand a direct hit from a heavy blaster).

Considering that the clone troopers in ROTS were able to walk around Mustafar rather comfortably mere meters away from molten lava hot enough to run virtually like water - suggesting the conditions of the planet are at least comparable to those you might find in or very close to an erupting volcano (to say nothing of more than one!) - they're QUITE thermally resistant.

well that's just more evidence for my point (my knowlage on behavior of lava is very limited).

Kurgan wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Stormtrooper (and presumably clonetrooper armor) apparently has some form of shielding (not neccesarily deflector shielding, some more "contact" form of ray shields or powered armor, ,sort of like what is implied for the AT-AT and the Clone military vehicles.) This is mentioned explicitly in the ANH novel, and the OT VD makes note of stormtrooper armor carrying some form of heat sinks on the belt.

Just curious but do you have the quote from the ANH novel handy? I don't recall ever hearing about Stormie personal shielding (or polarized hull plating, whatever), except in the Republic Commando mythos. I'm curious how it was described.

Not offhand, no. I just know that the stormtrooper (it was an officer IIRC) had a head wound from having its helmet "shielding" penetrated by a glancing hit, ,IIRC.

Incidentally, the ANH novel describes the idea that not ALL blaster fire that "penetrates" stormtrooper armor is neccesarily non-fatal - one bolt from a Rebel trooper's gun hit the helmet of a stormtrooper entering the Tantive IV and his head was mostly/totally blown apart by the hit. So it is possible for a bolt to penetrate with enough energy to do catastrophic/lethal damage to the trooper inside - under the right conditions at least.

Tychu wrote:in the original trilogy, i think its in ANH when Ben just gets killed, Luke shoots a stormie and the stormtroopers armor catches fire for just a second. It would seem to me that the blaster bolt is unimaginably hot, it seems to melt quite a few things

The "bolt" or beam ro whatever it is is not neccesarily going to be innately "hot" any more than a lightsaber is - simply because despite the implied/presumed energy content, its not noticably heating the air (and near-misses don't cause flinching, blistering, or anything like that - and we've seen plenty of near hits - up to and including with vehicle artillery like the AT-ATs in TESB.)

Perhaps blasters the mechanics behind blaster behaviour is as difficult to understand as those behind the lightsaber. They may rely on the application of principles that, to us, are at presently purely theoretical.

Lord Sabre Ace wrote:
You mean third degree burns. First degree are the least severe burns and third degree are the most severe.

Third degree burns are not the most sever. The most sever burns are forth degree, which is when bone has actually burned away. Third degree is burning away flesh.

Connor MacLeod wrote:So it is possible for a bolt to penetrate with enough energy to do catastrophic/lethal damage to the trooper inside - under the right conditions at least.

Don't worry, Connor, no one is saying that clone/stormtrooper armor renders all blaster injuries into non-fatal ones.

Just that if it has enough of a protective effect against blaster attacks to statistically reduce the probability of fatalities, that is sufficient, considering the level of medical capabilities available.

The primary purpose of the armor plates is still probably to significantly reduce the effective radius of blast and fragmentation weapons, which are the biggest threat to infantry.

Noble Ire wrote:

I've actually heard of 4th degree burns somewhere.

4th degree burns are similar to 3rd degree, except that they penetrate deeper into the skin and are often relatively painless due to nerve destruction.

Somehow that reminds me of a X-Files episode where some guy gets 5th degree burns...

Exonerate wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:

I've actually heard of 4th degree burns somewhere.

4th degree burns are similar to 3rd degree, except that they penetrate deeper into the skin and are often relatively painless due to nerve destruction.

Somehow that reminds me of a X-Files episode where some guy gets 5th degree burns...

5th degree? Wouldn't that entail something like this?

4th and 5th degree burns are most common with electrical injuries. A 5th degree burn is where the bone marrow is completely destroyed, and often occurs in people hit by lightning. In one of their legs, they no longer have any bone marrow, if they survive. Most survivors of lightning strikes often have some loss of sensory perception in one or more limbs due to nerve damage.

As far as a blaster against unprotected skin, I'm not 100% sure, but IIRC, smoke shot from both the near side, and the back side of a black suited imperial that Han Solo shot in ANH. That suggests to me that the blaster bolt penetrated his body before dissipating completely, which is the worst possible type of injury a person can suffer, even if the wound is completely cauterized.

In addition, as the body is mostly water, a blaster bolt penetrating into flesh would probably flash boil the water in the meat at the point of impact, causing a small steam explosion inside the person's body. Even if the incredible heat of the bolt did manage to cauterize the wound, the resulting hole would probably be quite large, and none too pleasant. A fist-sized hole pretty much anywhere in a person's body would put them into shock, and I wouldn't be surprised considering some of the burn marks seen on Stormtrooper armor when Darth Vader boarded the Tantive IV in ANH. I would not be surprised at all if that didn't really make a hole that big, at least on the inside.

Effects against an armored person (ie, stormtrooper armor). Seeing the effects against walls of hand blasters, does not look optimistic. It is really hard to tell, but if something that demonstrates the power of a blaster bolt comes through your armor, I don't know what kind of chance you'd really stand against it. Re-e-e-ely hard to tell.