StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Okay I have this guy who claims that Yuuzahn Vong Weapons and whatever can go through Shields cause there superheat plasma and that cause there particles heated up Energy shields can't stop it and Particle shields only absorb energy and can't stop it. And he sights the Star Destroyer Scene with the asteriod as a peice of evidence. As well we get into Ship size arguments in the begining as a point that I was trying to make about movie cannon that I couldn't get anywhere with.

Let me just say I'm not a good debater and I might as well have sounded a bit stupid but his argument to me is just beyond f*&ktarded. I put this for your viewing pleasure. Now just to let you know I'm Dossier. Also I had this convo in MSN IM.

Fact is Yuuzhan Vong simple couldn't take on Star Wars with ships spewing molten rocks
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
not molten rocks
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
superheated plasma
DOSSIER!!! says:
Still wouldn't work
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
would actually
DOSSIER!!! says:
Nope
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
Star Wars shields are designed only to stop energy
DOSSIER!!! says:
Look
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
s'why so many of Vader's ships were damaged badly when they went into the Asteroid field
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it actually states it very clearly in the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes
DOSSIER!!! says:
They state clearly that there are two kinds of Shields
DOSSIER!!! says:
Particle which stops particle
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yup...the other shield strengthens the bonds in the hull
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it doesn't stop it
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it just strengthens the hull
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
DOSSIER!!! says:
It stops it
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
again...stated clearly in the Essential Guide
DOSSIER!!! says:
Okay
DOSSIER!!! says:
First the essential guide has missed many things
DOSSIER!!! says:
One
DOSSIER!!! says:
Executor class is not 8,000 meters in length
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it's also stated in a lot of the RPG books
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
actually it is
DOSSIER!!! says:
Which know diddly squat
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the original Executor design was 8 km
DOSSIER!!! says:
If you look carefully at the asteriod scence
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
DOSSIER!!! says:
Look at the movies and will find it's closer to 17.5
DOSSIER!!! says:
Kilometers
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yes but going by the movies the Death Star II is over 900 km
DOSSIER!!! says:
Return of the Jedu
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
scale models are way off
DOSSIER!!! says:
Which is correct
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
which is wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because it's never stated in the movies the size...we have to go to all other sources
DOSSIER!!! says:
The movies are not Wrong unless you say GL is wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
GL is wrong on many things
DOSSIER!!! says:
The movie never stated the size
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but still...it doesn't state it clearly
DOSSIER!!! says:
however it showed it
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it shows many things incorrectly
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the Lambda shuttle changes in size from 40m to over 100m
DOSSIER!!! says:
canon clearly states that the movies are the know all and end all to whatever the books say
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the inside of the Falcon don't work at all
DOSSIER!!! says:
if A book makes a statement and the movies are calculated and proves the book wrong then the book is wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
further more
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so then Lambda shuttles can change their size at will gotcha
DOSSIER!!! says:
In the movies the Asteriods were stoped by the energy shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no they weren't
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you never saw any hitting a ship
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes they were
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it was only shown hitting a ship in the novel
DOSSIER!!! says:
you din't look closly enough
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I did actually
DOSSIER!!! says:
I can go bcak and show you
DOSSIER!!! says:
the times they weren't stoped is when Hyperspace communications were one
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there was 1 that was blased by a Turbolaser in the movies but that was it
DOSSIER!!! says:
on
DOSSIER!!! says:
The shields if will stop Hyperwave communications from going through
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that communication draws next to no power, and shields do not have to be down to use it
DOSSIER!!! says:
Which is the most secure for of communications
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they merely moved out because the signal was being interrupted by the asteroids
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes
DOSSIER!!! says:
Still the shields need to be down in order to communicate
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but I'm noticing you're ignoring the Lambda problem?
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
are you saying that because the movies show it changing in size, then it can change in size?
DOSSIER!!! says:
State it again
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I mean other sources have said it can't
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but obviously because the movie shows it...
DOSSIER!!! says:
How does it change size
DOSSIER!!! says:
What form of crap are you trying to pull
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
if you look at the scale models (seeing as several were used at different times in the movie) you'll notice it changes in size rather considerabley from scene to scene
DOSSIER!!! says:
Scale models
DOSSIER!!! says:
are you talking about the models used for the movie
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
which is what everything was
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
indeed
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause those mean Jackshit when it comes to perspective
DOSSIER!!! says:
Let'
DOSSIER!!! says:
Let's look at the obvious
DOSSIER!!! says:
first
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
wait wait
DOSSIER!!! says:
The Executor
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you said that the movies were completely right when they -showed- something
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the Executor is 12km, as stated on the official Star Wars site, as well as several other locations
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
Super-class Star Destroyers, however, are 8km
DOSSIER!!! says:
And Star Wars website is not cannon
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
scale in the movies has been proven to mean didley squat
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
actually it is
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not a higher order of cannon then the movies they aint'
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
everything written by official authors is canon
DOSSIER!!! says:
and there are simply wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
In lower order
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
nope but the movies were made in the 70's, and 80's, when people didn't have the correct technology to display scale correctly
DOSSIER!!! says:
The movies condritict the Books
DOSSIER!!! says:
Technology
DOSSIER!!! says:
Man it's a simple matter of math
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but you've already said that the Lambda doesn't change size when the movies clearly show that it does
DOSSIER!!! says:
or guestimation
DOSSIER!!! says:
Where does it change sizes
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
in each different scene it's in
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
purely because they used different models
DOSSIER!!! says:
Your dumb
DOSSIER!!! says:
Perspective
DOSSIER!!! says:
I'm going to say it again
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no you're trying to say that the movies are always right
DOSSIER!!! says:
Perspective
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I'm proving you wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
They use different models for perspective
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they used a different model because it was a different type of shot
DOSSIER!!! says:
No you are using pointless arguements to prove that you are right
DOSSIER!!! says:
You are using things like the models that were used in the movies
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
as are you :0
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
*
DOSSIER!!! says:
not the images you see
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the Star Destroyers were models also
DOSSIER!!! says:
Okay
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you're using models as your reference
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so I'm using them as mine
DOSSIER!!! says:
Lets go with you aruguement
DOSSIER!!! says:
The books say a Star Destroyer is 1.6 kilometers long
DOSSIER!!! says:
there wronf
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
actually George confirmed that
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause the models used in ANH were smaller then the ones used in ESB
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and if they're not 1.6km long then you have no size reference for the Executor
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so it could be any size
DOSSIER!!! says:
There fore the Corellian Runner is large then a SD until
DOSSIER!!! says:
Hey I'm just using your arguement here
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no you're not
DOSSIER!!! says:
So then what is your argument
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the Lambda models...there were several of them
DOSSIER!!! says:
different models means different sizes
DOSSIER!!! says:
and perspective has know meaning
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
when you compare the 1st image you see to the Falcon (which has an established size) you see it's one size
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
later, when you compare it to the Star Destroyer (also an established size) it becomes another size
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
then, when you see it in comparision to people moving about, it is another size
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so unless 1 shuttle can change size multiple times, then the movies are wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
Again
DOSSIER!!! says:
I don't get why you trying to say
DOSSIER!!! says:
I've never seen the Lambda change size
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
then you've obviously never looked closely enough
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there are people that have spent a LOT of time analyzing the movie to do this
DOSSIER!!! says:
Unless you are talking about when it's in the docking baay
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the scene comparing it to the size of the Falcon is when it's docked in a rebel ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the scene comparing it to the SD is when it's landing on Endor
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the scene comparing it to people is when it's landed on the DS
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
each time, when you take into account the sizes of everything else, and compare it to them, it is a different size
DOSSIER!!! says:
Oh
DOSSIER!!! says:
Well
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so how can 1 shuttle change size?
DOSSIER!!! says:
How has that anybearing to the size of the Death Star
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
well because you're stating that we can see the size of them because their models are compared to other models which have an established size
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
DOSSIER!!! says:
I never said models
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
then how are you getting the size of the Executor?
DOSSIER!!! says:
Simple
DOSSIER!!! says:
The SD is an established size right
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
ah wait
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
now you're comparing the Executor model to a ISD model
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
seeing as all the ships we see in the original films were models
DOSSIER!!! says:
I'm comparing what you saw a SD to what you Saw as an SSD
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not the actualy models
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they -are- models
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
every time you see a ship in the original films, it's either a painting or a model
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so you are comparing 1 model to another
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
just as I was
DOSSIER!!! says:
So
DOSSIER!!! says:
The lamda apparenlty had major perspective flaws as many of the other ships did but that doesn't change the fact that they weren't that off
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it changed in size very considerabley
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
which proves the movies -can- be wrong when you're only using comparison to other models
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
therefore we have to go to the established statistics
DOSSIER!!! says:
Okay I'll give you that
DOSSIER!!! says:
Except
DOSSIER!!! says:
if the movies are wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
then everything else is wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
Cause the movies are the highest order of canon as stated by GL's canon policy
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yup
DOSSIER!!! says:
Therefore anything the authors say or do will be wrong cause GL was wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no GL wasn't wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the visual effects producers were wrong portraying his vision
DOSSIER!!! says:
and even if GL says so it's wrong because GL was wrong making the perspectives
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it's what happens when things are so old
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then the movies are right
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no....what -happens- in the movies is righ
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
*right
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
what's shown is not always
DOSSIER!!! says:
and when they mess up a little your going to have to put a suspension of disbelief and find the most consistent example
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the most consistent size for anything comes from the RPG books
DOSSIER!!! says:
then GL is wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
well yes, he is
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
especially the new movies
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
he's contradicted himself in the new movies several times
DOSSIER!!! says:
But if GL is wrong then the RPG sources are wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no the RPG sources give exact details
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the movies never do
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they only provide visual representations
DOSSIER!!! says:
No the RPG sources give exact details cause they come from movies that are wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they do not come from the movies in any way
DOSSIER!!! says:
and therefore are too as well wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they are based on the movies
DOSSIER!!! says:
Oh
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
just as nothing in the EU comes from the movies...they are only based on it
DOSSIER!!! says:
So they arn't actually looking that the movies
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
well some of the RPG books do focus on the movies
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a lot don't though
DOSSIER!!! says:
And they are just pulling most of the numbers out of there ass
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no they are making them up, then getting them approved by Lucas Licensing
DOSSIER!!! says:
However
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
everything has to pass Lucas Licensing to be declared canon
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and seeing as they have passed, they are canon
DOSSIER!!! says:
Lucas movies have models which can be compared and calculated by perspective
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and are consistently wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
and so when you have an SSD that is more then nine times the size of an SD
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
another example is the size of the Falcon....specifically its cockpit
DOSSIER!!! says:
then it's wrong and can only be five times cause the books say so
DOSSIER!!! says:
You can approximate
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that's correct
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you can approximate, yes
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but you don't ever know the EXACT distances that ships are away from each other
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so your approximations could easily be thousands off
DOSSIER!!! says:
and whatever is the approx is still higher order then RPG sources
DOSSIER!!! says:
because the movies come first
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
well no
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
what if the ship the Executor is compared to is actually 300m away from it?
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that would make it appear much smaller
DOSSIER!!! says:
then the books written from the movie
DOSSIER!!! says:
then the Cross sections
DOSSIER!!! says:
then the EU
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that's not correct
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then the comic games and all that jazz
DOSSIER!!! says:
Face it pal
DOSSIER!!! says:
This getting old really fast here
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you're saying things incorrectly though
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the movies are G-level canon....everything else...no matter what the source...is C-level
DOSSIER!!! says:
Your arguement is based on the fact that GL is wrong and right at the same time
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
indeed he is
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but if we go by him being right all the time then we have ships that can change size
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and if that's the case, the Executor could easily be all 3 sizes it's classed as
DOSSIER!!! says:
The Movies and anything that are based directly from the movies like scripts productions notes and Books off the script are canon
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
production notes are not canon
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and I can see you've never looked into Leeland Chee's established version of canon
DOSSIER!!! says:
The Cross sections are directly based off those books movies and Productions notes
DOSSIER!!! says:
They are a higher form of canon
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
he's the person who takes care of the Holocron by the way
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they are not
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
nothing is higher than anything else anymore
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
apart from the movies, of course
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
G-canon is absolute canon; the movies, the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, and the radio plays. G-canon always overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
C-canon is pretty much everything in the Expanded Universe; SW books, comics, and games. Games are a special case as generally only the stories are C-canon while things like stats and gameplay are N-canon. Though even certain things from stats and gameplay have made their way over to C-canon occasionally.
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
S-canon is "secondary" canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
N-canon is "non-canon". What-if stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game stats, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm.
DOSSIER!!! says:
So when a Cross section book states that the level of energy at which a Turbolaser fires is 600 gigatons which is 600,000 megatons which is 600,000,000 Kilo tons which the bombs at nagasaki and hiroshima were detonated had a 12 kiloton yeild.
DOSSIER!!! says:
Now if a SD from Star Wars can slag a planet in a base delta Zero operation in 27 hours by it's self cause of the Gigatons and that's the conservative calculation actuall numbers are more like 3.95 Teratons for the HTLT then how come they can't stop a fricken rock. They can cause an asteriod vaporized in front of an SD and no TB fired. However when they were talking to Vader they blew up cause...
DOSSIER!!! says:
They were fricken communicating through hyperwave so they had to drop the shields. Of course when communicating ship to ship you don't need to be out of an asteriod field but when talking to the emperor half way across the galaxy you need it to be clear.
DOSSIER!!! says:
Going back to BDZ by Slag I mean molten rock all over the surface at least by one example
DOSSIER!!! says:
As well
DOSSIER!!! says:
If shields couldn't stop physical objects
DOSSIER!!! says:
then why the hell didn't they just attack the second death Star
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because then all the energy would have been drained from their fighters, as energy cannot go through shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
causing them to crash right into the surface
DOSSIER!!! says:
Shut off the fighter shield
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you still have all the running power
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
life support, engines etc.
DOSSIER!!! says:
Thrawn series
DOSSIER!!! says:
why did they put up Coruscant shields when it would have been useless again asteriods cloaked or not
DOSSIER!!! says:
Asteriods don't run on power
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you notice it didn't actually stop the asteroids?
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
besides the fact that Coruscant's shields are always up
DOSSIER!!! says:
THEN WHY PUT UP THE SHIELDS
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because they're always up
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they are
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it's how they control ships coming in and out
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
which is shown in other EU books
DOSSIER!!! says:
Uhm
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
uhm...yes
DOSSIER!!! says:
They put it up after the battle
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yup right after the battle...before they even knew that it was cloaked asteroids in the system
DOSSIER!!! says:
you read close enough they had to keep the shields up and they wouldn't let ships out as well could not communicate with the rest of the galaxy
DOSSIER!!! says:
THEY KNEW
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but Zahn is a terrible author anyhow
DOSSIER!!! says:
You know what
DOSSIER!!! says:
You don't have any clue
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I do actually
DOSSIER!!! says:
No you don't
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I've argued a lot in theforce.net's ships thread
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you should really take a look at it
DOSSIER!!! says:
Zahn stated that they were up to stop the cloak asteriods from hitting coruscant
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
every subject you're taken to "prove" yourself right has been shot down there time after time
DOSSIER!!! says:
you are saying that he is wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I didn't say he's wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I said he's a crap author
DOSSIER!!! says:
you are also saying that the shield on the Death Star couldn't stop fighter
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but they weren't put up to stop cloaked asteroids...they were put up to stop anything that was cloaked
DOSSIER!!! says:
The mon Cal ships could have easly shot at them
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
if you knew cloaked asteroids were in the system, wouldn't you want to put up all other defenses in case anything else was cloaked?
DOSSIER!!! says:
with particle weapons
DOSSIER!!! says:
Going to PM
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it could stop fighters because they need energy to run
DOSSIER!!! says:
TPM
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so they would have crashed
DOSSIER!!! says:
The naboo starfighters used Proton Torpedoeds
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
in TPM, Anakin goes right through the ships shields to get into the hanger, at which point his fighter loses power and he crashes
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
he then powered it back on after several tries
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
then he was able to fire the torpedoes
DOSSIER!!! says:
They couldn't penatrate the damn shield on the ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no they couldn't
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because they're powered
DOSSIER!!! says:
So they blow up
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
if they weren't programmed to explode on contact with a shield, they would go through without exploding
DOSSIER!!! says:
And so what happens to the fighter exiting the ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and just hit against the ship causing no harm
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the ships power generators were destroyed at that time
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
thus the shields were down
DOSSIER!!! says:
Heres the thing
DOSSIER!!! says:
The Guide to Vehicles and vessels say the Particle shields stop Particles
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
no it doesn't
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it implies that...but never states it explicitly
DOSSIER!!! says:
There fore the vehicles cannot exit unless it is down
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it is then proven incorrect when its stated that all those shields do is strengthen the bonds between the particles on the ships hull
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why don't you bring out your old guide to vehicle and vessels
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I have it out all the time
DOSSIER!!! says:
Type what the text says
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the text I'm mentioning isn't from the Vehicles and Vessels guide
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why do you keep putting that smiling face up
DOSSIER!!! says:
Get it from the guide to vehicles and vessels
DOSSIER!!! says:
not that molecular bonding armor from the CSA thing
DOSSIER!!! says:
Get that guide and go to the particle shields sections
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
"Particle shields are particularly useful for exploration vessels, transports, or Industrial craft because they absorb knietic energy caused by collisions with debris and other ships. Particle shielding also greatly enhances a ship's hull integrity by using energy charges to strengthen the molecular bonds of hull plating."
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and before you respond I have another quote
DOSSIER!!! says:
Where is that from
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
"Such shields permeate a starship's hull and protect the vessel through a series of energy layers that can extend up to several centimeters from the craft."
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so particle shields only absorb kinetic damage when it hits, and can only be projected several centimeters from a ships hull
DOSSIER!!! says:
Now explain the Gungan Shields and how they were able to stop explosives
DOSSIER!!! says:
Phisical
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the gungan shields are completely different
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they could stop both physical and energy from going through, as long as it wasn't going slowly
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why do you keep that smillin face up
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
Gungan shields are neither particle nor ray shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I like the smiling face
DOSSIER!!! says:
Now that quote
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the quote for Gungan shields?
DOSSIER!!! says:
You took from the New eeesential guide wirte
DOSSIER!!! says:
why are the old Essential guides say different
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the New Essential Guides were created to update and correct any information in the old ones
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
thus, they are correct, the old ones are wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
Okay
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then how come a plasma weapon can go through and energy shield
DOSSIER!!! says:
It still carries energy
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because it is a physical mass which has simply been superheated
DOSSIER!!! says:
it should fizzle just like a star ship
DOSSIER!!! says:
As is a star ship
DOSSIER!!! says:
It has a core and heated material in it
DOSSIER!!! says:
and yeat
DOSSIER!!! says:
yet it would stop on a dime if it hit the death stars shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
need to get out the New Jedi Order Sourcebook hold a second
DOSSIER!!! says:
theres a huge inconsitence
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
sorry that took so long got it now though....just need to find the stuff explaining Vong weaponry
DOSSIER!!! says:
You still didnt' explain why ships moving out of the Driod control ship weren't effected by the shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you mean the Droid ships or Anakin's ship?
DOSSIER!!! says:
Or why when the Proton warhead which produces at least kiotons of energy exploded over the hull of this ship
DOSSIER!!! says:
The Driod fighters
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
another quote then
DOSSIER!!! says:
they remian perfectly funtional passing through the shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
"shields must be lowered when launching craft or firing weapons. With the aid of a computerized system. however, these shields can be dropped and raised again in an instant."
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yet
DOSSIER!!! says:
The ammount of fighters they were letting out would allow them to attack the Control ship thus destroying it
DOSSIER!!! says:
While there shields were down
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the shield would constantly be lowered and raised each time a ship needed to pass through it
DOSSIER!!! says:
It took as obviously one could see a few precious seconds just to get them out
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
admitedly that was a lot of times, but it's still possible that every time they fired, the shield had just been put back up
DOSSIER!!! says:
Again huge inconsistency
DOSSIER!!! says:
As well
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
not a huge consistency...just one that needs a slight explanation
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why would the Proton Warheads not go through the shield if they are phisical weapons
DOSSIER!!! says:
Though they have energy envelops
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because proton torpoedoes are programed to detonate when they come in contact with a shield, as if they didn't, the energy would be drained from them, thus created "dud" missiles
DOSSIER!!! says:
They use that to help keep it from detonating
DOSSIER!!! says:
There is no energy in a proton torpedo
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there is
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it has an engine
DOSSIER!!! says:
After it explodes
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it has circuitry which tells it when to detonate
DOSSIER!!! says:
Oh yeah
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes but that need little to nothing
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and yet it would all be drained by shields
DOSSIER!!! says:
all you need it is the tip to be shoved bcak
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
thus, it wouldn't know when to detonate, and never would
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a "dud" missile
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that isn't part of their schematic however
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yes it makes more sense....no it's not how they're designed
DOSSIER!!! says:
that would then trigger a charging mechnism which could detonate the missle
DOSSIER!!! says:
have you ever seen a flashlight that you could power with you own hans
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I'll not deny that's a good idea it would work....but for some odd reason the Star Wars engineers didn't think of it
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then there stupid
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
indeed they are
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then they design there weapons to work bad
DOSSIER!!! says:
Im sorry
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
again...indeed
DOSSIER!!! says:
That destroyes the suspension of disbelief
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I believe it's what RP's are designed for so that you can change the Star Wars universe to your liking
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it's not nearly perfect...there's a lot of "stupidness" in it
DOSSIER!!! says:
You just proved that everyone in Star Wars is an idiot cause they can invent faster the light travel
DOSSIER!!! says:
That is an inconsitency right there
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause naturally
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they're not stupid...they just never thought of that idea
DOSSIER!!! says:
people will do whatever to win
DOSSIER!!! says:
In a conflict ion a war
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
either that or they did think of it, and there's some problem with it that would cause it not to work
DOSSIER!!! says:
They had years to think of that idea
DOSSIER!!! says:
Years
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it's very possible there's a flaw with that design which I merely can't see
DOSSIER!!! says:
And Trillons of people to come up with the solution
DOSSIER!!! says:
The point is
DOSSIER!!! says:
And then theres the more obvious
DOSSIER!!! says:
Momentum
DOSSIER!!! says:
Now
DOSSIER!!! says:
If there is an ovious weakness
DOSSIER!!! says:
how come they don't use MAC
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they have done
DOSSIER!!! says:
Magnetic accelration cannon
DOSSIER!!! says:
They have
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there's been several instances of Mass Acceleration Cannons being used in the EU
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
with great effectiveness
DOSSIER!!! says:
But why do they waste there time with Turbolasers
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they only don't use them more because of the ammo requirements
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
you can fit a lot more Turbolasers on something than you can fit on MAC's with their ammo
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and TLasers never run out of ammo
DOSSIER!!! says:
The power the demonstrated with TLs shows they can easily use a MAC
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
*points at what he just said*
DOSSIER!!! says:
Of course they don't require ammo
DOSSIER!!! says:
But
DOSSIER!!! says:
Cost wise
DOSSIER!!! says:
It's more effective to take down a ship instantly with a round going through a bridge then to keep suffering casualties cause of a more powerful ship
DOSSIER!!! says:
The only reason they would not use a MAC is cause they cant
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not because it's not technically fesiable
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yup it is...the problem is that MAC's would be hard to target, slower than a TLaser, and it's possible to shoot them down
DOSSIER!!! says:
but because they already have the tech that counters it
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yeah they do have things to counter MAC's....they have laser cannons...turbolasers....point defense cannons....
DOSSIER!!! says:
MAC can accerate a Round to really high speeds
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I know
DOSSIER!!! says:
like say .4 c
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but it's still possible to shoot one down
DOSSIER!!! says:
or 40 percent the speed of light
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not at close range
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
not at close range, no
DOSSIER!!! says:
If they couldn't shoot a fighter down going 400 mph
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
as I said though....MAC's have been used in SW with great effectiveness
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I've actually always wondered why they aren't used more
DOSSIER!!! says:
They how the hell could they shoot something fired a point blank range
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the Imp's had one on a planet that took out an entire fleet
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then why didn't they have more
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
beats me
DOSSIER!!! says:
why didn't they have it on all there ships
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
most SW writers tend to stick with things in the movies
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that's the only real reason
DOSSIER!!! says:
Could it be because what you are talking about is all wrong
DOSSIER!!! says:
People arn't stupid
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
nope, seeing as what I've said is canon, it isn't wrong
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they are actually
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
people are very very stupid
DOSSIER!!! says:
Your argument has got one flaw
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a person can be intelligent
DOSSIER!!! says:
In war
DOSSIER!!! says:
when a person is desperate
DOSSIER!!! says:
they will use whatever means
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yes...and they should have used MAC's....as I said....1 cannon took out an entire fleet
DOSSIER!!! says:
and if they couldn't stop a MAC round then they would Exclusivley use a MAC gun
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and they should have
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not they should have
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
however...Star Wars writers stick with what they see in the films
DOSSIER!!! says:
But would have
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I mean heck there's Light-shields in the RPG books but nobody uses them because they're not in the films
DOSSIER!!! says:
unless there is no such thing as Darminism
DOSSIER!!! says:
Darwinism
DOSSIER!!! says:
They used it once
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they used it once, it was incredibley effective, they never used it again
DOSSIER!!! says:
And I remember that one as well
DOSSIER!!! says:
It was destroyed by a K-wing
DOSSIER!!! says:
Squadron
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yup it was
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but they still had all the designs for it
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
(and please don't get me started on K-Wing's...so many inconsistancies with them)
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause they timed the PARTICLE SHIELDING THAT HAD TO GO DOWN JUST TO LAUNCH A HUNK OF METAL
DOSSIER!!! says:
I read the same book
DOSSIER!!! says:
www.stardestroyer.net
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
well of course they have to put down particle shields to launch something out of a canon...as I said before....Particle shields go around an object by several centimeters, and absorb kinetic energy as well as strengthening bonds....if you want to fire something out of a hole that was made specifically for the ammo, you'd need to lower the shileds or else the barrel would be a few centimeters too..
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
small
DOSSIER!!! says:
No
DOSSIER!!! says:
You wouldn't
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause the Metal would be going to fast for the Particle shields to even stop it
DOSSIER!!! says:
or slow it down enough to matter
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they wouldn't let it exit at all
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it would hit off them and explode
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause a slow moving asteriod couldn't be stoped
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
couldn't be stopped from hitting, no ....some of the damage could be absorbed...not all though
DOSSIER!!! says:
So why would they need to drop a Particle shield Moron
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
to fire the cannon so that the particle shield, which would go down tha barrel as well, wouldn't stop the ammo from being fired
DOSSIER!!! says:
the Shield is a few centimeters off the barrel
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
indeed
DOSSIER!!! says:
It not inside the barrel
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and a barrel would have to be specifically designed to shoot the ammo so that there wasn't a gap at all
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it is
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it goes several centimeters around everything
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that much is clear
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there's no reason that wouldn't extend down the barrell too
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yeah so they project it on the outside
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not on this inside
DOSSIER!!! says:
Otherwise nothing would move inside a ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there is still the hole at the tip of the barrell
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes there is a hole
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
which causes the inside of the barrell to become the outside of the ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
which in turn would cause the particle shield to go down it
DOSSIER!!! says:
But that particle shield won't do a lick a good stopping a piece of metal going hyper velocities around 10%-40% the speed of light
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it wouldn't be able to accelerate at all though
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it wouldn't move from the bottom of the barrell to be accelerated
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because the particle shield would stop it from being able to move up the barrell at all
DOSSIER!!! says:
Now why would it go down the barrel
DOSSIER!!! says:
cause you say so
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
thus a reason for them to have to lower the shield
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because it's the outside of the ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the description is clear that it goes all over the ship, a few centimeters away from the actual surface at most
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there's no reason for it -not- to go down the barrel
DOSSIER!!! says:
If they have the abilty to control the distance and the angle at which a shield is projected they howcome they can't fucking leave away from the barrel
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that would in fact create a hole in the shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a hole that could easily be fired into
DOSSIER!!! says:
oh and did the book even say the sheild went down the barrel
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it said that it went all over the surface of a ship
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and seeing as the inside of the barrell is still technically the surface, there's no reason not to assume it wouldn't go down it
DOSSIER!!! says:
Yes there is
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
otherwise, as I said, you have a hole in the shield which can be exploited
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
in fact if you have a hole going directly into the canon, you've provided the enemy with an extremely easy way to kill you
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
all it has to do is fire into that hole, and bam, all your ammo goes off
DOSSIER!!! says:
Cause if they can control how a shield behaves over the surface of any area they they can control where it doesn't
DOSSIER!!! says:
other wise people would be able to move cause techinically the inside of the ship is also a surface too
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I've just explained precisely why it would be logical to have the shiled over that area too
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
*shield
DOSSIER!!! says:
As well
DOSSIER!!! says:
is air a particle
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a slow moving particle, yes
DOSSIER!!! says:
Now
DOSSIER!!! says:
Hangers
DOSSIER!!! says:
They have to have particle shields right
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they do not, as proven by several computer games where you can in fact jump out of a hanger to your death
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then how come
DOSSIER!!! says:
People
DOSSIER!!! says:
which are slow moving particles
DOSSIER!!! says:
can move
DOSSIER!!! says:
Since they are on the surface
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I'm sorry but that statement only works if I had answered "yes, hangers do need particle shield"
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then how do hangers
DOSSIER!!! says:
Stop air from leaking
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I do not know it doesn't make sense
DOSSIER!!! says:
When exposed to the vaccum
DOSSIER!!! says:
Like
DOSSIER!!! says:
Oh say
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
but it's clearly shown they do have air in that we have seen people live in them...and yet they clearly do not have a shied inasmuch as we've seen proof they can be jumped out of
DOSSIER!!! says:
When
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they can also be decompressed, which has been used several times in EU, causing everything in them to be hurled into space
DOSSIER!!! says:
And where
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it really doesn't make any sense
DOSSIER!!! says:
So
DOSSIER!!! says:
How do they keep the atmosphere inside
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
as I said I do not know...it doesn't make sense
DOSSIER!!! says:
How do they do it
DOSSIER!!! says:
they unless they use particle shields
DOSSIER!!! says:
that don't effect people
DOSSIER!!! says:
Because particle shields cover all surfaces exposed no matter what
DOSSIER!!! says:
As well
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
indeed
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
so theoretically it would in fact cover the entire surface area of the hanger
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yet they must have some other sort of shield up which keeps the atmosphere in
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
yet allows anything else out
DOSSIER!!! says:
How come a proton Torpedo detonated on the surface of the Death Star when energy weapons could go through
DOSSIER!!! says:
Couldn't*
DOSSIER!!! says:
Shields should stop it
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
Proton Torpedo's did explode on the surface of the Death Star
DOSSIER!!! says:
Since it would suck the energy
DOSSIER!!! says:
The shaft was ray shielded
DOSSIER!!! says:
how come the death star exploded
DOSSIER!!! says:
The missle would have been a dud
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because the ray shields also only extend a maximum of a few centimeters
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a proton torpedo must have been just the right size to fit in between the shields
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then
DOSSIER!!! says:
If they are only extended a few centimeters
DOSSIER!!! says:
a laser would do the same thing since it is obviously not as wide as proton torpedo
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
a laser would be able to shoot down a hole too, yes
DOSSIER!!! says:
Oh
DOSSIER!!! says:
So when they said they couldn't
DOSSIER!!! says:
shoot it with laser
DOSSIER!!! says:
what they meant to say was they could
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
are you meaning the 1st Death Star's hole?
DOSSIER!!! says:
Indeed
DOSSIER!!! says:
GOD
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
well that's easy to explain...the torpedo had to go in the hole, the reangle itself downwards so it went into the reactor
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
rather than going straight aheead into a wall
DOSSIER!!! says:
There is piling evidence here and you ignore all the connecting facts
DOSSIER!!! says:
like one
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
there's absolutely no evidence I haven't provided counter evidence or explanations for
DOSSIER!!! says:
they have great control over shields IE Hanger bay Shields
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
although really I sho
DOSSIER!!! says:
Two
DOSSIER!!! says:
They used a Proton Torpedo down as shaft that they could fire lasers at and there fore Energy shields do nothing to stop Proton Torpedos
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I believe it is in fact you who is ignoring me on these counts so far
DOSSIER!!! says:
Which brings me to the point that they needed Particle shields to stop a proton torpedo on at the battle of naboo
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
as I stated with the hangers...there's no reason for them not to have 3rd type of shiled which kept the atmosphere in but nothing else
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the death star's hole was angled vertically, but the missile had to do in, then go down, so a laser could not do it
DOSSIER!!! says:
They can go from a different angle
DOSSIER!!! says:
as proven by the comment
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
how can a laser redirect itself half way through its trajectory?
DOSSIER!!! says:
"The Shaft is ray shielded so you are going to have use Proton Torpedos"
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it would have to go horizontally in, then vertically down
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why would they even consider using lasers if they couldn't come in at a different angle
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
I don't know I'm not them
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why would the empire bother to put up a ray shield
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the Empire had a ray shield over the entire Death Star
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
it wasn't a specific shield purely for that one hole
DOSSIER!!! says:
The point is the Evidence from the movies shows that Particle shields to in fact exist at a much more powerful level then you suggested
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
and if we're going by logic....why would the Empire create a huge battlemoon and leave a hole in it that could destroy it in one hit?
DOSSIER!!! says:
Otherwise the Sheilds on the Driod ships would not impede a Proton Torpedo
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
the ray shield would
DOSSIER!!! says:
Since they could stop one from Detonating in a Shaft
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
have you actually listened to a thing I've said rather than just assume I'm wrong at every count?
DOSSIER!!! says:
And the shaft would use a shield that would stop a laser
DOSSIER!!! says:
Not stay a few centimeters inside a 2 meter wide hole
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
that's what canon evidence tells us it does
DOSSIER!!! says:
inwhich case they could consided laser cannon use by going straight down and through the trench
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
unless you can find a quote to show me that's not how shields work, then it is in fact how shields work
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
hell there was absolutely no reason for them to go down the trench
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
they could have just came in from above the hole and fired down it
DOSSIER!!! says:
The fact is visual evidence have contracdicted your stupid quotes
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
how is that for lofic?
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
*logic
DOSSIER!!! says:
From books
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
visual evidence has not proven it
DOSSIER!!! says:
As well as quotes used
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
1 person said there's ray shields so they'd have to use torpedoes...perhaps he meant that you could use the torpedoes, they would go through, then power themselves up again to blow up further down the hole whereas a laser would just sputter out
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
perhaps on those particular torpedoes, there was the aforementioned switch you thought of so that the torpedo exploded on impact
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why was a proton Torpedo able to pass through a shield and not pass through a shield in two differnet movies
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because Lucas is senile tbh he hasn't portrayed the last 3 films like he did the originals at all
DOSSIER!!! says:
Then they would have Destroyed alot more ships in the battle of Endor using the same design
DOSSIER!!! says:
Also
DOSSIER!!! says:
How come the fighters on the second Death Star couldn't shut everything off
DOSSIER!!! says:
let there momentums carry them
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
because, as shown in EpI, it ta
DOSSIER!!! says:
and fly to the uncompleted side of a Death Star where no guns were placed
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
in that time, they would have either crashed or been shot down
DOSSIER!!! says:
then Restart and start shoting
DOSSIER!!! says:
Why did they even need those shields to drop
DOSSIER!!! says:
They could pass right through
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
anyway....I'm not allowed to call in sick so I need to head off to work...I'd be happy to talk about the rest later but I've got to work extra tonight
DOSSIER!!! says:
Oxygen tanks would give them the stuff needed
DOSSIER!!! says:
as well as oxygen scrubers
#$55,1Andrew "Jaymach" Skinner says:
as I said...happy to discuss this later....real life to go to now though

Never, ever do that again. For fuck.

In the dim chance you're not a complete moron, just point him at ROTJ space battle (fighters crashing into shields), ROTJ DS2 shield, ROTS landing shields, etc.

Or ask "So why didn't they penetrate? Its obvious the shields work *insert references to shields stopping YV stuff"

Gee, I thought that Han, Luke, and Leia held their breath when they ran to the Millenium Falcon on the Death Star.

Formatting! Formatting! Gaaah!

Sorry, I just can't be bothered to read all of that.

I stopped reading about a third of the way through.

The guy is clearly and idiot, not to mension blind, delusional, and a fanboy that thinks he knows more than God. Because as far as Star Wars is concerned GL is God and saying that George is wrong and he knows better is the height of fanboy self-wanking arrogance. Seriously, a guy so stupid that he can't grasp that there are different sized models for different scenes (small models for faraway shots, large models for close-ups) clearly has an intelligence level somewhere between "being able to tie own shoes" and "not drowning in own drool". I've heard people say that the Internet makes people stupid, my theory is that the Internet's magical powers makes complete morons intelligent enough to use it, but not smart enough to use their brains.

I'd give him up as a lost hope, but if you want to keep trying. There are various pictures all over the main site that might be of use. For example, one where an asteroid clearly impacts against the shields of a Star Destroyer and doesn't even leave a scorch mark on the hull. The main site in general can be used for dealing with idiots in general when it comes to Star Wars, despite being oriented more to SW vs. ST.

Adrian, does he say that? Ugh. I honestly stopped reading when I realised there was no formatting for four pages.

I stopped reading at the point that he said George Lucas was wrong about his own creation.

The guy is a rabid nut job and probably can't be reasoned with. I would simply suggest not communicating with him again.

Saying GL's wrong about Star Wars?

Blasphemy!

I could only read about 1/4 of that, before the dude's inane blabber started to give me a headache. Him being so stupid as to say GL is wrong and the EU is right, means this prrobably won't help, but show him this: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/rb/isdcrash.jpg .

Lord Sabre Ace wrote:Saying GL's wrong about Star Wars?

Blasphemy!

more like Idiocy!

It's unfortunate I have a nasty habit when it comes to these idiots. I get pissed and keep argueing with them until they quit.

At anyrate after that incident I won't be talking with that guy again. God he even said that Anakin's Naboo Starfighter powered down cause it passed through the energy sheilds. And yet Anakin clearly stated all the systems were over heated. SO MANY POINTS.