StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Good Evening all.

I had a thought or two occur to me, for no particular reason

What if, General Grevious had had 2 additional 'modifications' to him. (Modifications from the view point of the fans)

#1- Destroyer Droid shield generators, blasters (as additional arms that unfolded at stomach level) + power source.

#2- General Grevious was also a Dark Jedi.

How would this have affected his Clone Wars engagements?
Republic view of him?
Seperatists view?
How would his duel of Kenobi had turned out?
Would Dooku have said 'screw Sidious and Skywalker, I've got my own apprentice?'

Since Grievous had almost nothing of his organic components left, any force ability would be severely reduced.

Just give him Precog and limited TK then

observer_20000 wrote:Since Grievous had almost nothing of his organic components left, any force ability would be severely reduced.

I still find that extremely illogical. If it was true, Palpatine should put on weight to become more powerful.

nightmare wrote:

observer_20000 wrote:Since Grievous had almost nothing of his organic components left, any force ability would be severely reduced.

I still find that extremely illogical. If it was true, Palpatine should put on weight to become more powerful.

Isn't that a bit of a strawman? I mean the concept that a mostly complete body with its "organic components," meaing heart, lungs, digestive system etc intact, being a necessity for using the force is not the same as putting on some extra pounds (of fact or muscle? or whatever) in order to bulk up.

Greymalkin wrote:

nightmare wrote:

observer_20000 wrote:Since Grievous had almost nothing of his organic components left, any force ability would be severely reduced.

I still find that extremely illogical. If it was true, Palpatine should put on weight to become more powerful.

Isn't that a bit of a strawman? I mean the concept that a mostly complete body with its "organic components," meaing heart, lungs, digestive system etc intact, being a necessity for using the force is not the same as putting on some extra pounds (of fact or muscle? or whatever) in order to bulk up.

Kind of like Shadowrun the more Bio and Cyber tech you put into a body the less essence you have for magic use.

Back in topic....

What happens if you give Grevious force abilities and/or a Destroyer Droid's weapons and shields?

Solauren wrote:Back in topic....

What happens if you give Grevious force abilities and/or a Destroyer Droid's weapons and shields?

well, lets see............ dual sets of blasters, personal shields, and four light sabers..... seeing as how the shields forced Kenobi and Qui Gon to retreat, I think that Obi Wan loses to Grievous.....

Grievous would have been much more dangerous. He could have taken on pretty much any Jedi and slaughtered them.

Well for one he'd be a much more believable threat as a "Jedi Slayer," as per the EU...

And Obi-Wan would have been suicidal to go toe to toe with him alone like he did in ROTS!

Can he also tuck into a ball and roll around?


What happens when an organic body touches a Droideka shield? That would make the "melee" a bit more interesting. Would it be like Dune, or would Obi-Wan get himself fried?

If he lacked the Dark powers, theoretically (as per the EU) Obi-Wan could just Force Push him over, and possibly negate the shield entirely. But with the Force, Grevious can actually have some immunity from those attacks, and enhance his own speed, to match that of Kenobi. Meaning he wouldn't be such a pushover in a saber match. It also depends on how powerful he was with the Force. But if he was even as poweful as Darth Maul, Obi-Wan is screwed, barring some innovative new tactics or support! I think Ben would get creamed, personally.

In ROTS as is, the fight would have been over a lot more quickly if Obi-Wan had simply had a rocket launcher of some kind.

In ROTS as is, the fight would have been over a lot more quickly if Obi-Wan had simply had a rocket launcher of some kind.

What makes you say this? He's not trained to use the weapon, and unless he was surprised Grievous could evade without too much trouble. Then, of course, there's his armor, which apparently can offer resistance to even anti-starfighter weapons.

The best Grievous-insto-kill would have to be a sniper shot to the eye. But Obi-Wan couldn't have done that from the angle he approached Grievous from anyway.

Droidekas have always been the best Jedi-killers. You'd need to have Yoda-level telekinesis to even give one a fight. A Jedi can't return enough blaster bolts to bring down that shield. People whine about Luke and Mara having trouble with one, but even the vaunted Anakin Skywalker runs from them (or calls in a heavy artillery strike, LoE), so Luke and Mara did okay in my book.

Anguirus wrote:What makes you say this? He's not trained to use the weapon, and unless he was surprised Grievous could evade without too much trouble. Then, of course, there's his armor, which apparently can offer resistance to even anti-starfighter weapons.

It was starfighter weapons, and clearly hyperbole. Given that it talked about enduring a shot in the face, and ignored that this would crispy fry his eyes and the brain behind them even if his plating survived.

It was starfighter weapons, and clearly hyperbole.

A weapon that you'd put on a fighter would be designed to kill another fighter. But, an anti-fighter weapon doesn't necessarily have to be on a fighter.

Anyway, I was going on the assumption that the hyperbole was based on truth. If a weapon on that scale hit him, it might leave the armor intact but blast the organic parts into next week. Whiich is pretty much what you said. Such armor, though, would provide great protection against a rocket, especially if it's not a direct hit.

He might be sacrificing some degree of mobility in order to house the generator. Not sure how large the Droideka's generator is, or where in the body it's housed. I assume in the lower torso near where the legs are.

Greymalkin wrote:

nightmare wrote:

observer_20000 wrote:Since Grievous had almost nothing of his organic components left, any force ability would be severely reduced.

I still find that extremely illogical. If it was true, Palpatine should put on weight to become more powerful.

Isn't that a bit of a strawman? I mean the concept that a mostly complete body with its "organic components," meaing heart, lungs, digestive system etc intact, being a necessity for using the force is not the same as putting on some extra pounds (of fact or muscle? or whatever) in order to bulk up.

Since when was a specific organ necessary to use the Force? What we have is that x number of midichlorians per cell is indicative of your ability to communicate with the force. You don't get any less midichlorians per cell just because you are missing a hand like Luke for example. If the total number of midichlorians was relevant, you would expect to see diminished force powers if you lose organs. However, that would also not explain why Yoda with his small stature can be powerful, or Empatojayos Brand if you prefer the EU.

Or for that matter, what would happen to the force spirits, who don't have any body left at all?

It's nonsensical.

nightmare wrote:

Greymalkin wrote:

nightmare wrote: I still find that extremely illogical. If it was true, Palpatine should put on weight to become more powerful.

Isn't that a bit of a strawman? I mean the concept that a mostly complete body with its "organic components," meaing heart, lungs, digestive system etc intact, being a necessity for using the force is not the same as putting on some extra pounds (of fact or muscle? or whatever) in order to bulk up.

Since when was a specific organ necessary to use the Force? What we have is that x number of midichlorians per cell is indicative of your ability to communicate with the force. You don't get any less midichlorians per cell just because you are missing a hand like Luke for example. If the total number of midichlorians was relevant, you would expect to see diminished force powers if you lose organs. However, that would also not explain why Yoda with his small stature can be powerful, or Empatojayos Brand if you prefer the EU.

Or for that matter, what would happen to the force spirits, who don't have any body left at all?

It's nonsensical.

Again, your strawmaning.

When did I say that a specific organ was necessary to use the force? Furthermore, what the fuck does Yoda's height have to do with anything?

To the question of how removing body parts affects force ability, wouldn't we expect to see Darth Vader at diminished capacity since many of his organs (or at least his lungs) were badly damaged? Even though the Force is drawn from life, it would seem to be a mostly mental discipline. This would suggest that if one is force sensitive, they really only need a functioning brain to control the force. Perhaps such a scenario would be stretching the idea too far, but where has there been evidence that diminished physical wholeness diminishes connection to the force? Bear in mind that I am not counting the immediate effects of catastrophic illness or injury which would diminish connection to the force by virtue of how pain and weakness diminish mental discipline. But in the case of some one who has been returned to health with missing or synthetic parts, why do you think their force ability would be less?

On a topic tangent, has there ever been any reason given for why they did not simply remove grievous' brain and place it in an armored shell in that droid body? Leaving his lungs and other organs just hanging out turned out badly for a number or reasons. (Cough, Hack, Wheeze for one and Exploding Organs for another)

Edited once to fix some glaring typos.

Anguirus wrote:

In ROTS as is, the fight would have been over a lot more quickly if Obi-Wan had simply had a rocket launcher of some kind.

What makes you say this? He's not trained to use the weapon, and unless he was surprised Grievous could evade without too much trouble. Then, of course, there's his armor, which apparently can offer resistance to even anti-starfighter weapons.

So you're saying he could take a rocket to the face/chest and live to fight?

Yeah right. The KE alone should kill him, since I was thinking of an anti-armor type weapon. I don't care how blaster proof he is, he's going down.

And since when has he demonstrated superior dodging ability? Oh that's right, the Clone Wars cartoon, which we can't trust for any degree of accuracy with regards to abilities!

And as for Obi-Wan not being trained, all he needs is a little kid to show him how to use it.

The best Grievous-insto-kill would have to be a sniper shot to the eye. But Obi-Wan couldn't have done that from the angle he approached Grievous from anyway.

Per your statement above, he could just dodge it, and Obi-Wan is not trained in its use, so he couldn't use it, period! Grevious has only one weakspot, like all video-game end-bosses, and you have to weaken him first before you can hit it. Heh.

Droidekas have always been the best Jedi-killers. You'd need to have Yoda-level telekinesis to even give one a fight. A Jedi can't return enough blaster bolts to bring down that shield. People whine about Luke and Mara having trouble with one, but even the vaunted Anakin Skywalker runs from them (or calls in a heavy artillery strike, LoE), so Luke and Mara did okay in my book.

And despite this we've never seen them kill an actual Jedi. Sure the Jedi run from them though, which indicates they're scary.

But if you really want to get right down to it, Grevious is supposedly stronger than a Droideka, and yet Jedi can beat him. In the video games (I know, they're games) you have Droideka enemies and Jedi can kill them, they're not unstoppable... maybe they're just generally more trouble than they're worth to take down with just a saber?

If Droidekas were the end-all be-all of Jedi killing, why didn't they just deploy them on a massive scale against the Jedi?

The Jedi obviously have some kind of honour code. Obi-Wan completely got the drop on Grievous when he jumped down right behind him. He could have easily adusted the trajectory of his jump and landed lightsabre-first, on Grievous' head.

Greymalkin wrote:Again, your strawmaning.

When did I say that a specific organ was necessary to use the force? Furthermore, what the fuck does Yoda's height have to do with anything?

No, you're just totally missing the point.

Anguirus wrote:

In ROTS as is, the fight would have been over a lot more quickly if Obi-Wan had simply had a rocket launcher of some kind.

What makes you say this? He's not trained to use the weapon, and unless he was surprised Grievous could evade without too much trouble. Then, of course, there's his armor, which apparently can offer resistance to even anti-starfighter weapons.

The best Grievous-insto-kill would have to be a sniper shot to the eye. But Obi-Wan couldn't have done that from the angle he approached Grievous from anyway.

Droidekas have always been the best Jedi-killers. You'd need to have Yoda-level telekinesis to even give one a fight. A Jedi can't return enough blaster bolts to bring down that shield. People whine about Luke and Mara having trouble with one, but even the vaunted Anakin Skywalker runs from them (or calls in a heavy artillery strike, LoE), so Luke and Mara did okay in my book.

so only Yoda could take on a Droidekas..... where do you get that from?

Didn't these Jedi ever learn how to use guns? Idiots.

Imagine somebody with Jedi abilities but the mentality of a Delta Force operative. Now that would be scary.

His powers of hard drinking and swearing would be astronomical!

Darth Wong wrote:Imagine somebody with Jedi abilities but the mentality of a Delta Force operative. Now that would be scary.

Oh yes, pre-cog and a sniper rifle with a 6km range. How is that for pain? If this hypothetical Jedi would be substituted for Obi-Wan, Grevious' last act would be to scream in terror at the sight of the Thermal Detonator that just dropped in front of him. Then you have even more scary shit like the Jedi understanding that they are not really General material, and letting real Generals do their jobs while they command surgical strikes. Actually, Obi-Wan kind of did this when he went after Grievous, but then screwed it up by not cutting-off the General's head when he got the drop on him.

Kurgan wrote:Didn't these Jedi ever learn how to use guns? Idiots.

There have been several instances of Jedi using guns, but generally they don't due to an honor code, and the fear that the impersonality of the blaster could making killing to easy and normal, thus opening a gateway to the Dark Side. Or at least that's Jedi dogma.

But, I'm assuming you figured that out before you posted.