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But not per usual.

I was/am watching AotC's right now, and between that and some recent disscussions on the board, I've thought of a few things in relation to the Force and how Jedi work.

Anakin; well he is the Choosen One. The Force flows through him in masses quantities. As a mere Padawan in AotC's, he can use the Force in some impressive ways, TK and the like. Though even still, when he confronts Dooku, he is defeated.

Obi Wan; though not as powerful in the Force as Anakin, he does some very impressive things in his lifetime. Defeats a Sith Lord, fights another to a stand still. Engages Grevious and wins. How he does this is to 'emerge' himself completely in the Force and allow it to fight for him. He is everything and knows everything and there fore can react or preact to it.

So where am I going with this? Well, if Anakin is the Choosen One with all the power of the Force channeling though him, how the hell does Obi (or Dooku in AotC's for that matter) fight him off if not defeat him?

The difference, 'submergence in the Force'. In one of the 'Flash v Jedi' threads or other superhuman threads, I think DW points this out. Anakin has all the Force he could possibly use at his figer tips. He can use it and puts it to use many times. Levitation, jumping, force walls, ect....

Obi on the other hand, seems to have fully bought into the Jedi training and can litterly turn himself over to the Force at anytime. In AotC's, he accepts his own death by turning himself over to the Force. He totally submerges himself in the Force on the IH and defeats the Maganguards and Grevious and later on Utapua, he does it again.

He's not more powerful than Anakin, not by a long shot, but Anakin does not 'submit' himself to the will of the Force. He's spoiled in that there is ample Force flowing through him at all times for his use. Obi, on the other hand, is so well trained, that he can let go of himself and let the Force do as it wills against him.

Viewed in this way, and in the larger structure of the prophecy and the 'balance of the Force' is it a wonder that Obi can fight off a more powerful foe than his 'raw Force power' would let him? Anakin 'forces' (no pun intended) his way through fights with raw power. I don't think he ever lets himself be 'taken over by the Force' the way Obi can do 'easily' by RotS.

Wouldn't this also be the basic philosophical difference between Jedi and Sith? Jedi are suppose to surrender themselves to the Force, and by extension accept what the Force gives them. (this could be the root of the 'no attachment' clause and other 'no you can't' rules). While the Sith do not wish to 'surrender' themselves to the Force, rather use the raw power of it to accomplish things they want, instead of allowing the Force to act through them.



Thoughts? Comments?

It would certainly explain why Yoda compells Anakin to let go of his love for Padme:

If it is true that for a Jedi to maintain his goodness and not be tempted by the darkside he has to submit to the will of the force he will be unable to do that if he wants to somehow change the will of the force (whether conciously or unconciously) to not have himself or another die.

The Guid wrote:It would certainly explain why Yoda compells Anakin to let go of his love for Padme:

If it is true that for a Jedi to maintain his goodness and not be tempted by the darkside he has to submit to the will of the force he will be unable to do that if he wants to somehow change the will of the force (whether conciously or unconciously) to not have himself or another die.

Would this explain the 'evolution' of power between Darth Sidious and the Jedi? The Sith were originally Jedi anyway, way back in the day. I have to believe that a lot of baggage would still be in their training, even to Sidious, from the Order.

Does Sidious represent the 'first Sith' to be truely independent from any Jedi training. No 'submit' in his training or ways?

So in pro-wrestling terms, Anakin is like The Big Show (7ft 2, 500 pounds) who has lots of strrength and power, and relies on those, while Obi Wan is more like Kurt Angle or Chris Benoit (ie. not as big, but rely more on technical ability). Anakin can use his power against most opponents, but against someone who knows how to counter than he flounders a bit.

My impresion of the fight was that Anakin had the edge in raw strength, while Obi-Wan was keeping his cool and planning ahead. Many times Obi managed to get the upperhand. Only to lose it to Anakin when Ani turned it to a strength contest. Perfect example is the TK scene. They keep going back and forth until this, and while Obi managed to knock Ani back Ani recovers faster. So fast that Obi has to scramble to keep from getting sliced in half.

2000AD wrote:So in pro-wrestling terms, Anakin is like The Big Show (7ft 2, 500 pounds) who has lots of strrength and power, and relies on those, while Obi Wan is more like Kurt Angle or Chris Benoit (ie. not as big, but rely more on technical ability). Anakin can use his power against most opponents, but against someone who knows how to counter than he flounders a bit.

Meh, I'm old school, and thus haven't watched wresteling in many moons, but if pressed, I'd put it like 'Ultimate Warrior' versus 'Mr. Perfect'.

I consider the adage "youth and skill is no match for old age and treachery" . Ani had the raw power, but rarely immersed himself fully in it. I think he is capable of it when he isn't thinking about it, like when he was podracing, if this makes sense. Obi-wan is able to lose himself in the force and become the Force's instrument. I think he was not quite in there when fighting Sid in AOTC and ROTS, but when he went off alone, letting go of having to watch over Ani, Obi-wan is able to truly lose himself in the Force.