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So here's the deal:
What's the actual difference between COMPNOR, Imperial Intelligence and Imperial Security Bureau? I tried to explain it to my friend, who usually refers to me whenever some Star Wars question comes up in her mind, but I noticed that I actually had some hard time doing so. I had always pictured COMPNOR as a mix between SS and a sort of Orwellian thought police (the kind that keeps the populace in line and sprouts party lines and propaganda whenever possible), Imperial Intelligence as military intelligence-gathering service, and ISB as a mix between SS and Secret Service, but am I completely wrong about this?

Imperial Intelligence is military intelligence, while the Imperial Security Bureau is civilian controlled. The ISB focused more on the internal politics of the empire, while II was more infiltrating the Rebels/NR. When Palpatine created both of these groups, the ISB was used as a rival to II.

COMPNOR is basically as you described it, they used propaganda to brainwash citizens into being loyal to the Empire.

COMPNOR seems like the SS, And the ISB acts more like the Gestapo.

Imperial Intellegence is the Empire's CIA or if you prefer KGB

Far closer to the CIA. The KGB had a multitude of functions other than external intelligence.

KGB is like the CIA, FBI, NSA, Secret Service, and Green Berets (what with the Spetznaz) all under one roof.

The Spetsnaz under the KGB's control weren't really equivalent to Green Berets. For them, you've got the "true" Spetsnaz- those under the GRU (i.e. Army Spetsnaz).

I thought the special forces under GRU had a different name.

Adrian Laguna wrote:I thought the special forces under GRU had a different name.

"Spetsnaz" is just a general term that can refer to any special forces in use by the Soviets/ former Soviets- so the KGB troops have no more legitimate claim to the title "spetsnaz" than the GRU. Now in Russia even the Penetentiary Directorate has spetsnaz. The KGB troops went under various specific names as well, IIRC, depending on their role.

The KGB also had a Border Patrol function as well... so if you combined the US Homeland Security(Coast Guard, Immigration, Border Patrol, etc, etc) with the inteligence gathering mission of the CIA, you'd probably have a good reflection of the KGB. But I'd defer to Vympel in this matter if he says otherwise; he's the guy to ask about this sort of thing.

Imperial military intelligence was probably pretty much limited to military threat analysis, plotting target folders at a sector level, dealing with unusual and recurring groups like the Chiss, and maintaining a heavy hand in secret weapons research (Maw, Tantiss).

ISB would be more of the internal police services, rooting out Rebel civilian sympathisers and keeping an eye on crime lords & pirates, and other pan-Empire troubles (leaving local, system, or even sector police to deal with ordinary criminal or smuggler threats). Probably most of the 'Imperial Customs Frigates' were ISB (guessing).

COMPNOR was more of the social/cultural thought police types, lecturing people on the benefits of the New Order and giving reveiws of what entertainment or schools programs were 'acceptable'. They were the 'Commissars', basically, ensuring ideological purity.

II is the official military intelligence of the Empire, though there are Army, Navy, and presumably Marine intelligence departments themselves. COMPNOR is the totalitarian wing of the monarchist party, and serves as the semi-official political apparatus of the Imperial State. The ISB is operated by COMPNOR and resembles the Soviet chekists and Orwellian thought police. They are paramilitary. A more explicit example of paramilitaries is the COMPForce (COMPNOR's military), which is relatively comparable to the Waffen-SS.

As Illuminatus Primus has correctly pointed out, Imperial Intelligence is considered a branch of the Imperial armed forces (alongside the Navy, the Marines, and the Army), and is chiefly responsible for espionage, counterintelligence, and 'executive action' (the 'Isard family business' has an entire branch dedicated to assassination of Enemies of the Empire). In most cases, II is seen to spy on other governments or on the rebel Alliance; it is known to have at least some police functions, as Special Agent Kirtan Loor was assigned to liaise with the Corellian Security Force (CorSec), and in that capacity worked with CorSec officers Corran Horn and Iella Wessiri. II is also known to maintain special operations troopers, such as the black-armored Special Intelligence Officers, or the Special Naval Troopers (SpecNav) created jointly by II and the Navy, according to The Bacta War (presumably this should be understood to mean the Naval Service, i.e., the Marine part of the spacegoing forces, rather than the Navy proper, since Sixtus Quinn and his troopers were seen to be stormtroopers in "Battleground: Tatooine").

In contrast, the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB) is not, strictly speaking, a part of the Imperial State, as it is a part of COMPNOR, the quasi-official Commission for the Preservation of the New Order. The ISB takes a much more internal role, handling 'state security' and internal espionage; the ISB is known to spy on the Imperial Army and Navy, for example, and to have secret 'sleepers' stationed aboard Naval ships to monitor loyalty (in theory, these agents are also supposed to destroy the ship in the event that it should attempt to defect from the Empire). Unlike most branches of COMPNOR, the ISB does not hesitate to use non-COMPNOR muscle, and will hire local toughs to work with its Enforcements division.

COMPNOR is a quasi-official conglomerate of ideological interests. It includes much of the Empire's thinkpol functions, including the Board of Culture, the Art and Education sections of the Coalition for Progress, and the ISB itself. COMPNOR controls the Hitlerjugend-like Sub Adult Group (SAGroup), as well as the paramilitary CompForces, divided into Assault and Observation branches (an Observation officer is basically a zampolit, an official spy on the regular military forces responsible for overseeing ideological reliability – an interesting contrast to the ISB's sleepers). COMPNOR also presumably controls the 'Party,' hitherto only hinted at, which is presumably the means by which the Empire maintains control of otherwise independent member states and the Imperial civil service itself.

It should be noted that II and the ISB, although filling separate roles, actually have frequently overlapping areas of responsibility. Consequently, there is a great deal of rivalry and outright hatred between the two, and in later years during the Time of Destruction in 45 GR, the two were to take to outright war, openly assassinating one another's agents and posting proscription lists of the other's personnel and allies. This was evidently done on purpose, so as to prevent either service from becoming too comfortable with its place in the Empire, and to give constant motivation to improve and to outdo one another. This is the reason that it is often easy to confuse II and the ISB; they often worked in the same fields, although II is generally considered to be the more professional of the two.

Vympel wrote:

Adrian Laguna wrote:I thought the special forces under GRU had a different name.

"Spetsnaz" is just a general term that can refer to any special forces in use by the Soviets/ former Soviets- so the KGB troops have no more legitimate claim to the title "spetsnaz" than the GRU. Now in Russia even the Penetentiary Directorate has spetsnaz. The KGB troops went under various specific names as well, IIRC, depending on their role.

Aren't special forces in the KGB (FSB) name as Alpha Group; Beta Group and so on?

Mobius wrote:Aren't special forces in the KGB (FSB) name as Alpha Group; Beta Group and so on?

I think the KGB teams (Alpha, Vympel, Grom, Delfin) were considered something of an elite within an elite and used as part of KGB operations - protecting import WP figures, sleeper cells, political assassinations etc. GRU Spetsnaz was used in a much more conventional role, anlagous to Western SF in wartime.

thejester wrote:

Mobius wrote:Aren't special forces in the KGB (FSB) name as Alpha Group; Beta Group and so on?

I think the KGB teams (Alpha, Vympel, Grom, Delfin) were considered something of an elite within an elite and used as part of KGB operations - protecting import WP figures, sleeper cells, political assassinations etc. GRU Spetsnaz was used in a much more conventional role, anlagous to Western SF in wartime.

I thought KGB political assassinations (back when they did it) came under First Chief Directorate: Dept Viktor, Dept 13 of Line F, Department 8 of Line S, blah blah. I thought GRU Spetsnaz did wartime assassinations, for example say an assault on 10 Downing St to kill the PM in the event of war or summat like they did in Afghanistan.

Danny Bhoy wrote:I thought KGB political assassinations (back when they did it) came under First Chief Directorate: Dept Viktor, Dept 13 of Line F, Department 8 of Line S, blah blah. I thought GRU Spetsnaz did wartime assassinations, for example say an assault on 10 Downing St to kill the PM in the event of war or summat like they did in Afghanistan.

My not-terribly-authorative source would suggest that Spetsnaz operating that deep would be under the control of the KGB; GRU Spetsnaz covered the independent brigades (equivalent of an SFG, I guess) and the Army/Front /Fleet units. A quick bit of googling would seem to confirm this:

http://students.engr.scu.edu/~jabraham/ ... page1.html

Vympel, which means "pennant" or "banner", was created in 1981 as a covert paramilitary unit. The KGB created a number of covert special operations units (called Spetsgruppa) to carry out a variety of tasks. Vympel was subordinate to the KGB's First Chief Directorate (Foreign Operations). The First Chief Directorate was responsible for all international clandestine operations conducted by the KGB. Within this Directorate, Vympel was placed under the Illegals Department, or Department S, which recruited, trained and controlled KGB officers operating covertly in foreign countries. The First Chief Directorate also ran the Executive Action Department, or Department V, which conducted assassinations, snatches and sabotage in enemy territory.