Vader's father?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-12-15 10:57am

Hiya.

We all know that Vader was conceived immaculately, but
I was curious to know if the TPM novelization or any
other sources talked about this at any greater depth.

(As hokey as it would be, I could imagine Palpatine
having something to do with Vader's birth. Or Yoda.
"Orgasm I must to child create!" LOL...)

Ok, sick thought. Sorry...bad effort at humor from
boredomville!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-12-15 11:22am

I haven't read the TPM novelization, but:

Is it possible that Anakin Skywalker is the result of a Kaminoan biotech experiment?

(although Force attunement is not genetic, which makes it a bit hard for our Kaminoan friends to make a biologically engineered super-jedi)

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-15 11:26am

Are we SURE force attunement isn't genetic?

Why the fuck did Lucas mention Midichlorians ... there's gotta be a reason for it. There's gotta be.

Bah who am I kidding TPM was a gigantic brain fart.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-12-15 12:09pm

Vympel wrote:Are we SURE force attunement isn't genetic?

Why the fuck did Lucas mention Midichlorians ... there's gotta be a reason for it. There's gotta be.

If Jedi are forbidden to reproduce, then aren't they going to go extinct if it's all in the genes??

Further, Dooku is the son of the Count of Serenno, and in order to align with Jedi celibacy, then Serenno wouldn't be ruled by this family.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-15 12:35pm

On the whole celibate thing...it's almost just simply oxymoronic.

Force Attunment doesn't have to be soley genetic but for some reason it's a huge part...honest(I mean given how they play up Luke being the Son of Skywalker)

So Anakin may actually have been just something of a recessive but with a bit of help from the Force to be such a powerful force user.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-15 01:28pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Vympel wrote:Are we SURE force attunement isn't genetic?

Why the fuck did Lucas mention Midichlorians ... there's gotta be a reason for it. There's gotta be.
If Jedi are forbidden to reproduce, then aren't they going to go extinct if it's all in the genes??

The catholic church is having just such a problem, they have to exclusively recruit to a resistrictive lifestyle. Never underestimate the dumb things people will subscribe to in the name of religion. Given some of the other restrictions celibacy, sane or not, is but an extension of that.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-15 11:29pm

I didn't think the Jedi necessarilly had to be celebate. They just aren't supposed to get attached to people or things. They can go the one night stand route.

Unless having sex is considered a lack of personal discipline I wouldn't be suprised if there's some recreational sex going on in the Jedi Temple. Except, considering how uptight some of the Jedi seem to be, they're probably not getting a whole lot of action.

Mace Windu has to be though. There's no way a Samuel L. Jackson character would belong to an organization that doesn't allow him the opportunity to "Get It On" (SNL Reference

).

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-12-15 11:34pm

It was probably Bob the mailman.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-12-15 11:54pm

Palpatine impregnates Shmi Skywalker because he figures out that the most powerful child he could have would be with her. Using the dark side, he makes her forget about it, then sells her into slavery on Tatooine. The boy would have to grow up in the harshest conditions, and as a slave it would cultivate his anger well. Using his force-given ESP he knows that one day, Anakin Skywalker will grow up to be a powerful Jedi. One he can manipulate and use for his own advantage.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2002-12-16 12:05am

Anakin and his mother reminds me alot of the tale of Aladin. the original tale had Aladin as being the son of the Evil magician, who plan his birth to match a specific Astrological configuration.

Only a Boy born according to this configuration could gain the Lamp.

After knocking up Aladin's mother, the Evil Mage left. Later to return as his Uncle...

Could not the Emperor, knowing of the Prediction, decided to forfill it by finding the one woman that child would be destine to be the bringer of balance.

Why Anakin mother? Could it be the fact the Jedi had diminished the blood line of force yielder in the Republic by not breeding. If a micro organism is responible for force, than Force yielder must have a low immunity to being affected. By constantly seeking out force sensitive childern and making them Jedi, only poeple that have a relative immunity to being affect by the Micro organism are left.

Anakin mother live beyond the Boundary of the Republic, it a good bet that her parent did too. Maybe that like the Jedi of old she and her offspring would be perfect hosts. And the Emperor know this..

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2002-12-16 12:59am

I think Palpatine had Anakin's birth planned out from the start. I think that the somehow unknowingly impregnated Anakin's mom (maybe using some sort of genetic technology(?)) and then waited for him to grow up and start his training.

In AOTC, Palpatine has already started to warm up to him. He knows something.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-16 12:59am

How could the force sensitvity NOT be genetic? I mean Obi Wan says it all in ROTJ: "The emperor knew as he did that if Anakin were to have any offsrping they would be a threat to him."

Luke further reinforces it: "The Force runs strong in my family: My father has it, I have it and my sister has it."

What is that if it isn't genetic????

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-16 01:02am

Stravo wrote:How could the force sensitvity NOT be genetic? I mean Obi Wan says it all in ROTJ: "The emperor knew as he did that if Anakin were to have any offsrping they would be a threat to him."

Luke further reinforces it: "The Force runs strong in my family: My father has it, I have it and my sister has it."

What is that if it isn't genetic????

Could be like some biological thing. Like if you have AIDS, you're kids are probably going to have AIDS.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2002-12-16 01:05am

If that is the case, then having the Jedi not be able to reproduce is rather stupid, wouldn't you say?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-16 01:10am

Superman wrote:If that is the case, then having the Jedi not be able to reproduce is rather stupid, wouldn't you say?

Not necessarily. Having Jedi going around boinking everyone they see might not be that smart, at least to them. Besides, if it is not genetic, and it looks like it is not, then having them not reproduce doesn't mean there will not be any more Jedi.

It might be like mutations in X-Men. They will happen naturally. However, if mutants have kids they will defininetly be mutants.

Ignoring the X-factor in genes of course.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2002-12-16 01:13am

I'll take a Kryptonian any day of the week over one of those goofy X Men! Unless that Kryptonian happens to be a bad guy. Then we would be in trouble. And what if a Kryptonian had an X- Factor... Uhhh...

So anyway, I still don't see why TOTAL abstinance would be required. But who ever said religion is rational, eh?

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2002-12-16 01:45am

Stravo wrote:How could the force sensitvity NOT be genetic? I mean Obi Wan says it all in ROTJ: "The emperor knew as he did that if Anakin were to have any offsrping they would be a threat to him."

Luke further reinforces it: "The Force runs strong in my family: My father has it, I have it and my sister has it."

What is that if it isn't genetic????

It is a little known fact that a part of the "trials" required to become a Jedi Knight involves sperm/egg donations.
Nobody knows what happens to them, though...

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-12-16 02:21am

I'll bet the trend of Jedi not breeding is a more recent trend. Probably within the last 50-100 years or so of the old Jedi Order.

The order of Jedi Knights was already over 10,000 individuals and they had plenty of young recruits as evidenced in AOTC. There was probably no need for the Jedi to breed any further and add to the order.

Better that way so that the people they were protecting did not think that the Jedi were creating an "oligarchy of spoon benders" (to borrow a term from The Courtship of Princess Leia)

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-16 06:05am

Wicked Pilot wrote:It was probably Bob the mailman.

or...

Shmi was drunk and Watto gave her a "present"...

Spoiler from Episode 3!!!

Anakin emerges from the furnace after the duel with Kenobi...

Watto flies over his head and say:

Anakin, Obi-van never told you the truth....I'am your father!!!

*Anakin falls back to the furnace*

Come join me and we shall sell second hand droids on a backwater planet forever...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-16 11:01am

Stravo wrote:How could the force sensitvity NOT be genetic? I mean Obi Wan says it all in ROTJ: "The emperor knew as I did that if Anakin were to have any offsrping they would be a threat to him."

Luke further reinforces it: "The Force runs strong in my family: My father has it, I have it and my sister has it."

What is that if it isn't genetic????

Read Mike's AotC analysis page for his take on it. I hate the part where it makes sense, but I sure as hell can't argue against it. The overwhelming evidence is that Force abilities can not be a genetic trait. Sad but at this point un-arguable.

I can't remember who brought this up (sorry, I usually like to give credit where credit's due, but for the life of me I am drawing a fucking blank at the moment) but the theory was brought forward; what if Anakin isn't the only vergence in the Force? What if there was another immaculate conception? And what if that was from the Dark Side, i.e. Palpy? Makes sense to the whole 'bring balance to the Force thing'; Palpy vergence for the Dark Side, kills all Jedi, Anakin vergence of the Light Side, kills Palpy, Force balanced.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-16 11:04am

Found it!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... rce+theory

Started by Steven Snyder.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-12-16 11:33am

Superman wrote:I think Palpatine had Anakin's birth planned out from the start. I think that the somehow unknowingly impregnated Anakin's mom (maybe using some sort of genetic technology(?))

Some sort of genetic technology... perhaps with the help of the Kaminoans?? (I hate including Kaminoans in all of my crazy theories, but The First Law Of Conspiracy Theories says that all conspiracy theories shall include The Greys, and since the Kaminoans are #1, skilled biotechnicians, and #2, the closest thing we get to Greys* in the SW universe, I have to sattle with them)

*Maybe with the exception of some of the Senate aliens, but they're green not grey.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-12-16 02:53pm

If he did impregnate Shmi it would be through the force, maybe he didn't even know who it was he was doing it to, he just reached out for a latent prsence in the force, someone who never realized they even had potential.

We've seen the force do crazy things, its possible. Remember, in RoTJ they both had the eerie pasty skin.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-12-16 05:01pm

Superman wrote:If that is the case, then having the Jedi not be able to reproduce is rather stupid, wouldn't you say?

Not really. With less forces users out heir is less a threat too their power.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-18 01:55pm

Now, I wouldn't expect too many people to know this, but "Immaculate Conception" when used to describe Anakin's mother's odd pregnancy is inaccurate.

The concept itself has nothing to do with a virgin birth, but rather being concieved "without Original Sin" and refers to the Virgin Mary, not Jesus (although I guess most Christians would assume Jesus was born without sin as well, but he's the Son of God, so no biggie).

Sorry to nitpick, but I see it so often, I think a lot of people just think its the same thing.

My theory was that somehow, Palpatine was Vader's father, and maybe he (Palpy) knew it too! What a plot twist!

; )

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