How many Dark Jedi served in the GE?

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2006-01-01 06:05pm

We have Jerec who was commanding other 4-5 Dark Jedi in his service some time after the battle of Endor.
Carnor Jax seems to have Force Powers, but it appears to be some what limited compare to other Jedi.
And there is the female Dark Jedi who nearly begged Darth Vader to become his apprentice but was killed by him, don't know her name.
And there are probably more...

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2006-01-01 07:16pm

Flint of Belderone and Lumiya a.k.a Shira Brie are two others off the top of my mind.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-01-01 07:17pm

Mara Jade

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-01-01 07:24pm

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-01 07:27pm

Weren't most of the members of the Inquisition Dark Jedi?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-01-01 09:56pm

Considering we also know Vader trained a few Dark Jedi (i.e the Propriotor of Justice), most of the Prophets, Inquisitors and Secret Order had quasi Jedi training (at the least), and who knows how many were captured and turned....

The Emperor and Lord Vader basically built a new Sith order, without training any more Sith

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-01-01 09:59pm

-Jerec had 6 Dark Jedi followers, so that's 7 right there.

-Supreme Prophet Kadann

-Lord Hethrir

-High Inquisitor Tremayne

-High Prophet Jedgar, the rest of the Prophets of the Dark Side, and the Emperor's Dark Side Adepts are all Force users, but I don't know if they're powerful enough to qualify as Dark Jedi

-Force abilities and lightsabers are standard for Imperial Inquisitors

-Executor Sedriss and all the guys in Dark Empire

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-01-02 02:01am

LongVin wrote:Weren't most of the members of the Inquisition Dark Jedi?

Not quite. There is at least one High Inquisitor (viz., Mox Sloxin) who had no sensitivity to the Force at all, and despite the fact that Jerec was known to be an agent of the Inquisitorius (ref. The New Essential Guide to Characters), at the same time he was known to keep his Jedi abilities and background secret (ref. Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire). The Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology mentions that inquisitors often liked to use disruptor pistols, and the Dark Empire Sourcebook even goes so far to mention that some modules of the TaggeCo. modular taskforce cruiser included a hundred or so inquisitors as part of their standard complements. Although certainly a number of Inquisitorius agents are known to have been dark Jedi, statistically the number must be insignificant -- the Inquisitorius was regarded as useless by most of the Imperial powerbrokers during the Time of Destruction, and no Grand Inquisitor had even been appointed since the Lord Torbin's assassination on Weerden (ref. Star Wars Sourcebook).

However many dark Jedi and other dark side cultists there were, they cannot have been statistically significant, or else the Grand Moff Tarkin's remark about Darth Vader being the last of the old Jedi religion is meaningless. The Prophets of the Dark Side, the Secret Order of the Emperor, and the Emperor's Hands, for example, were not generally known (the whole point of their utility is that they were kept strictly secret). Most inquisitors and high inquisitors probably kept low profiles (à la Jerec), and the various other cultists like Lady Lumiya during the Isard regency were of such smale scale as to be insignificant.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-01-02 02:11pm

Yes, there are Seven Dark Jedi. Perhaps you could argue that Yun was newly adopted, as he would have been very young, but not "too young" (per training from birth ideas from the Prequels) during the time of the Empire...

Yun said all he'd ever known were Dark Jedi "never one from the Light Side."

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-01-02 02:24pm

Publius wrote: modules of the TaggeCo. modular taskforce cruiser included a hundred or so inquisitors as part of their standard complements.

Was this in reference to actual inquisitors, or operatives of the Inquisitorius? If it was the latter, it could presumably include anything from specially trained stormtroopers to torturers and prison guards...

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-01-02 04:14pm

NecronLord wrote:
Publius wrote: modules of the TaggeCo. modular taskforce cruiser included a hundred or so inquisitors as part of their standard complements.
Was this in reference to actual inquisitors, or operatives of the Inquisitorius? If it was the latter, it could presumably include anything from specially trained stormtroopers to torturers and prison guards...

The text on the "Inquisition Module" states that it is crewed by "100 Inquisitors, 3,660 CompForce/observation staff, 10,000 interrogation droids," and is equipped with "15,000 pre-fabricated disintegration chambers, two garrison bases, an Orbital Data Net Eraser unit, probes with sterilization spores, five cluster bombs with magnepulse bombs . . . and a complete orbital nightcloak system." Although it is said to be "the most recent addition," it is said to be "used for punitive actions against insurgents and rebellious worlds," suggesting that it is common enough that the idea of 100 dark Jedi on each of them is unlikely (to say the least).

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2006-01-02 04:55pm

Publius wrote:However many dark Jedi and other dark side cultists there were, they cannot have been statistically significant, or else the Grand Moff Tarkin's remark about Darth Vader being the last of the old Jedi religion is meaningless.

While I agree with the bulk of your analysis, couldn't Tarkin's line be taken as referring to Vader being the last of the Jedi religion in the sense that Tarkin believed him to be the last living person to have been trained by the Jedi Order, rather than being the last living Force user? After all, the full line is, "The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-01-02 05:04pm

Publius wrote:The text on the "Inquisition Module" states that it is crewed by "100 Inquisitors, 3,660 CompForce/observation staff, 10,000 interrogation droids," and is equipped with "15,000 pre-fabricated disintegration chambers, two garrison bases, an Orbital Data Net Eraser unit, probes with sterilization spores, five cluster bombs with magnepulse bombs . . . and a complete orbital nightcloak system." Although it is said to be "the most recent addition," it is said to be "used for punitive actions against insurgents and rebellious worlds," suggesting that it is common enough that the idea of 100 dark Jedi on each of them is unlikely (to say the least).

Well, that clears that up. Though one has to wonder why they'd need fifteen thousand disintegration chambers, unless the disintegration in question is some kind of very slow excecution.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2006-01-02 05:37pm

NecronLord wrote: Well, that clears that up. Though one has to wonder why they'd need fifteen thousand disintegration chambers, unless the disintegration in question is some kind of very slow excecution.

Maybe they are limited use or need recharge time or something that would otherwise get in the way of any would-be genocidial EU Imperial.

Sunstreaker · Post by **Sunstreaker** » 2006-01-03 02:11pm

Isolder74 wrote:Mara Jade

What's your source, as Zahn begs to differ in "Survivor's Quest".

Or are you defining "dark jedi" very loosely?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-01-03 03:39pm

Sunstreaker wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:Mara Jade
What's your source, as Zahn begs to differ in "Survivor's Quest".

Or are you defining "dark jedi" very loosely?

Wasn't she one of the Emperor's hands?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-03 03:52pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Sunstreaker wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:Mara Jade
What's your source, as Zahn begs to differ in "Survivor's Quest".

Or are you defining "dark jedi" very loosely?
Wasn't she one of the Emperor's hands?

She was, but Luke (and herself) seem to come to the conclusion that she was never actually "Dark". Something about her never really accepting Palpatine's methods. It was confusing.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-03 04:25pm

Part of her MO for the Emperor involved assassination and espionage. If she wasn't skirting on the darkside I'm Ronald McDonald. Zahn is full of shit. Serving the evil makes you evil no matter what kind of spin you try and put on it.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-01-03 04:36pm

Noble Ire wrote:She was, but Luke (and herself) seem to come to the conclusion that she was never actually "Dark". Something about her never really accepting Palpatine's methods. It was confusing.

Considering Master Skywalker's aspirations vis-à-vis Mara Jade and select portions of her anatomy, it takes little effort to find his theology suspect. One does not need to embrace the dark side knowingly in order to be immersed in it (the planet Phindar was inundated in the dark side despite the absence of any Force sensitives in its brutally oppressive regime). Mara Jade was a thief, spy, and assassin for the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known, and she did it willingly. The idea that her actions 'did not count' because she didn't 'mean it' is offensively stupid, amounting to little more than an elaborate attempt to dodge personal responsibility.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-03 05:06pm

NecronLord wrote:
Publius wrote:The text on the "Inquisition Module" states that it is crewed by "100 Inquisitors, 3,660 CompForce/observation staff, 10,000 interrogation droids," and is equipped with "15,000 pre-fabricated disintegration chambers, two garrison bases, an Orbital Data Net Eraser unit, probes with sterilization spores, five cluster bombs with magnepulse bombs . . . and a complete orbital nightcloak system." Although it is said to be "the most recent addition," it is said to be "used for punitive actions against insurgents and rebellious worlds," suggesting that it is common enough that the idea of 100 dark Jedi on each of them is unlikely (to say the least).
Well, that clears that up. Though one has to wonder why they'd need fifteen thousand disintegration chambers, unless the disintegration in question is some kind of very slow excecution.

Was it stated the disintergration chambers only handled one person at the time? Maybe they were designed for mass executions. To allow the Imperials to eliminate tens of thousands of dissidents in short order.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-01-03 08:53pm

Publius wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:She was, but Luke (and herself) seem to come to the conclusion that she was never actually "Dark". Something about her never really accepting Palpatine's methods. It was confusing.
Considering Master Skywalker's aspirations vis-à-vis Mara Jade and select portions of her anatomy, it takes little effort to find his theology suspect. One does not need to embrace the dark side knowingly in order to be immersed in it (the planet Katharsis was inundated in the dark side despite the absence of any Force sensitives in its brutally oppressive regime). Mara Jade was a thief, spy, and assassin for the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known, and she did it willingly. The idea that her actions 'did not count' because she didn't 'mean it' is offensively stupid, amounting to little more than an elaborate attempt to dodge personal responsibility.

I disagree. His assertion was that her actions were based out of the idea of serving the state, rather then furthering her own ambitions. Compare this with the Jedi Order of the Republic era - They willingly acted as spies (numerous examples in the Clone Wars), thieves (largely in conjunction with the spying), and in the rare cases assassins (Mace Windu's assassination of a crime lord in Tales and his attempted assassasintion of a lawfully elected politician and of Count Dooku, Kenobi's attempted coup on Ord Cestus) for both the Jedi Council and the Office of the Supreme Chancellor (held by the most powerful Sith Lord known). Yet the actions of the Jedi Order are not regarded as dark.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-04 02:47am

Perhaps if the Jedi hadn't been partaking in such action they wouldn't have been as vunerable to the "Shrowd of the Darkside". IMHO high ranking masters like Windu had been becomming a little to close to Dark, hence Windu's egarness to over throw the Senate.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2006-01-04 07:30am

Lord Pounder wrote:Perhaps if the Jedi hadn't been partaking in such action they wouldn't have been as vunerable to the "Shrowd of the Darkside". IMHO high ranking masters like Windu had been becomming a little to close to Dark, hence Windu's egarness to over throw the Senate.

That is actually an interesting and viable theory and it somehow reflects Yoda's little speech about the growing arrogance of the Jedi (it takes a lot of arrogance to believe that one can avoid the repercussions of such actions that would instantly spell the label "servant of the dark side" to any "lesser" being, or at least drive the said being closer to the dark side). Perhaps some Jedi had grown to view the saying "a Jedi is not a creature of morals" as a justification for more and more suspect activities, in direct conflict with the actual Jedi teachings (as noted in WotC's Star Wars Roleplaying Game: Revised Core Rulebook, page 178). Perhaps it had been subtle for a long time, but was enhanced by the desparation caused by the Clone Wars and the growing influence of the shroud of the dark side.

It is curious to see in Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand comic that both the Emperor and Lord Vader considered Mara to be "neither dark nor light" in her actions. I've recently come to the conclusion that the Sith Lords meant her connection to the Force - she used very passive powers (telepathy, enhanced reflexes perhaps, better fighting skills while calling on the Force - mostly just enhancing the skills that were already there) and was rather poor when she had to use Force persuade skills or even simple telekinetic powers. However, she did appear quite ruthless and cold during her tenure as the Emperor's agent, so the claim that she never truly had any entaglements with the dark side is absurd - most likely she simply buried those memories so deep inside her mind after the Emperor's death (quite easy, in fact, since her Force-connection had been mainly conducted by the Emperor and when Palpatine died, Mara almost lost all of her skills) that her views on the subject became non-reliable. And during her time as Talon Karrde's aide and even before she might have recovered from the dark side's influence.

Both of these are just my personal theories, but I rather like them in any case.

As to the topic at hand...

Both the Emperor and Lord Vader had several Dark Jedi servants (source: New Essential Guide to Characters) in the Imperial Palace (and of course in Vjun and in Byss), although one might speculate that the Emperor's dark side servant's numbers were much greater. Dark Side Sourcebook (from WotC) states that the Emperor had many dark side adepts at his beckon and command both in the Imperial Palace and in Byss and that some of his Royal Guardsmen were trained in the use of the Force (especially the Sovereign Protectors). He also had the Prophets of the Dark Side and the Emperor's Hands (including, but not limited to, the starfighter ace Maarek Stele, Mara Jade and Roganda Ismaren), the Force-using Inquisitors (like High Inquisitor Tremayne and Jerec) and several other Dark Jedi (like Sedriss). Vader had Hethrir as his apprentice and Darth Lumiya, although it was implied in NEGtC that he also had more dark side servants. So the number of the darksiders was indeed a considerable one, but most of them never achieved any great level of power - it would have been bad if the Empire would have been torn into ribbons by a Dark Jedi civil war (and as we see in the case of Jerec and Supreme Prophet Kadann, who were still clearly inferior to Vader and Palpatine, that concern was quite important).

Sunstreaker · Post by **Sunstreaker** » 2006-01-04 08:52am

Mara Jade never made it to Jedi status, light or dark, until after the Thrawn trilogy. She wasn't a dark Jedi, but she was a force adept.

She had no intent of over throwing the Emperor so she wasn't portrayed dark Jedi, or Sith, like Vader or Dooku. She was a servant who could use the force completely loyal to the Emperor’s will. She was a weapon.

But as Zahn described it, she was unique in that she drew the force from Palpatine himself. She was not proficient at using the force without Palps to hold her hand. She was not a Jedi in the least in the days of the GE.

Her abilities and intents were a gray area somewhere in between light and dark.

She was clearly not a jedi and clearly not dark nor light so she was not a dark Jedi.

Sorry for the thread highjack. I wanted to clearify my previous statment.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-05 03:28pm

Sunstreaker wrote:Mara Jade never made it to Jedi status, light or dark, until after the Thrawn trilogy. She wasn't a dark Jedi, but she was a force adept.

She had no intent of over throwing the Emperor so she wasn't portrayed dark Jedi, or Sith, like Vader or Dooku. She was a servant who could use the force completely loyal to the Emperor’s will. She was a weapon.

But as Zahn described it, she was unique in that she drew the force from Palpatine himself. She was not proficient at using the force without Palps to hold her hand. She was not a Jedi in the least in the days of the GE.

Her abilities and intents were a gray area somewhere in between light and dark.

She was clearly not a jedi and clearly not dark nor light so she was not a dark Jedi.

Sorry for the thread highjack. I wanted to clearify my previous statment.

You are still wrong. She no matter what way you look at it she was using the Force in many cases for assassination and espionage. Using a Dark Lord of the Sith as inspitation. That makes a Darksider no matter what kind of spin you put on it and no matter how poorly trained she was.