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In the quadrillions easily.nickolay1 wrote:At the height of the Empire, approximately what was the total number of Imperial military personnel?
Ender's number is off the cuff but I'd guess mid trillions.nickolay1 wrote:Would anyone happen to have a source with at least some rough calculations arriving at such a number?
There's no published sources, but considering the Galactic Empire is said to have "consisted of over one million member worlds and fifty million colonies, protectorates and governorships", a logical estimate would put the number of military personnel in the hundreds of trillions to a few quadrillion.nickolay1 wrote:Would anyone happen to have a source with at least some rough calculations arriving at such a number?
I'm sorry, I might be missing something, but wouldn't you multiply by five? You have the count the guy on the ship, too.Mr Bean wrote:Plus the fleet itself for every one person acutaly on a ship there are four people in supply supporting him.
And with the shear number of people serving on shipsx4=a big ass number.
Yes, its in the ROTS ICSnickolay1 wrote:Thanks for the input so far to those who've contributed.
I've got a few other questions. Though there apparently aren't any published sources of the quantity of personnel serving the Empire, would there happen to be offocial published quantities of droids built by the CIS? I've read figures such as "quntillions," but is this canon?
Its iffy there. Yes, it is printed in the clonetrooper article in SW Insider. However, it contradicts the AOTC novel which states droid parity/superiority to Clones. The article in question also gives the Grand Army a total of 3.2 million, a number that contradicts perviously published material and common sense. It also says a sector army is smaller then a system army despite a sector composing of thousands of systems. Pretty much, that article isn't worth the paper it is printed on. So while it is canon, it should be regarded with the highest skepticism.Also, is the ratio of 200 droids killed by each clonetrooper canon as well?
Just to clarify, wasn't it the ISB that also stated a stormtrooper legion could pacify an entire planet?Ender wrote:See the thing is, when folks wrote the Imperial Sourcebook, when it came to scale atleast they used thier heads.
Not sure, but this is technically true. There will be a planet out there with only about 50000 people on it. It obviously wasn't what the minimalists that write most of WEG mean, thoughPainRack wrote:Just to clarify, wasn't it the ISB that also stated a stormtrooper legion could pacify an entire planet?
The ISB is from the POV of the RA, based on intercepted imperial communiques and based on the rebels experiences in the outer rim.PainRack wrote:Just to clarify, wasn't it the ISB that also stated a stormtrooper legion could pacify an entire planet?Ender wrote:See the thing is, when folks wrote the Imperial Sourcebook, when it came to scale atleast they used thier heads.
I haven't read very much of the EU, but I don't recall anybody mentioning conscription, even in an off the cuff manner. Given this, I would presume that there will be very little conscription in the Empire. Also the ratio of soldiers to citizens in the Galaxy would seem to preclude the need for very many conscripts. Admittedly, this is dependent on how many nonhumans are in the military.Dooey Jo wrote:To what extent does the Imperial military use conscripts? Supposedly, the Stormtroopers are all volunteers, but what about the rest of the military?
The Stormtroopers are actually for the most part clones.Dooey Jo wrote:A somewhat related question that I do not think warrants its own thread:
To what extent does the Imperial military use conscripts? Supposedly, the Stormtroopers are all volunteers, but what about the rest of the military?
By the Thrawn trilogy they seem to be conscripting even bridge ratings for Imperial Star Destroyers that are being used as flagship of the fleet. Of course, this is Timothy 'Captain Minimalism' Zahn talking, the same man who thinks that three squads of stormies is going to be a serious temporary deployment, and that tens of thousands of credits is enough motivation for entire smuggler groups to look for one man in deep space.4Tran wrote:I haven't read very much of the EU, but I don't recall anybody mentioning conscription, even in an off the cuff manner. Given this, I would presume that there will be very little conscription in the Empire. Also the ratio of soldiers to citizens in the Galaxy would seem to preclude the need for very many conscripts. Admittedly, this is dependent on how many nonhumans are in the military.Dooey Jo wrote:To what extent does the Imperial military use conscripts? Supposedly, the Stormtroopers are all volunteers, but what about the rest of the military?
Brainwashed to be precise such as the brother of Kyp in "Jedi Trial" who was serving as a stormtrooper rcadete despite being abducted and having most of his family killed.NecronLord wrote:Storm troopers, according to Lucas, Zahn, and KJA (*Shudder*) frequently include mind-controlled conscripts.
I believe the quote was that they were made up of both clones from several different sources, and recruits/conscripts. The proportion of each group wasn't ever noted.President Sharky wrote:The Stormtroopers are actually for the most part clones.Dooey Jo wrote:A somewhat related question that I do not think warrants its own thread:
To what extent does the Imperial military use conscripts? Supposedly, the Stormtroopers are all volunteers, but what about the rest of the military?
But an increased need for conscripts post-Endor does make sense, really. Many people who would have originally signed up with the Empire might reconsider after its fragmentation and defeat, and those officers still around would probably be fought over by new warlords, or quietly swept away to Byss, reducing their numbers.By the Thrawn trilogy they seem to be conscripting even bridge ratings for Imperial Star Destroyers that are being used as flagship of the fleet. Of course, this is Timothy 'Captain Minimalism' Zahn talking, the same man who thinks that three squads of stormies is going to be a serious temporary deployment, and that tens of thousands of credits is enough motivation for entire smuggler groups to look for one man in deep space.
Even the Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition drastically underestimates the size of the Galactic Empire's military-industrial complex. In The Courtship of Princess Leia, the Prince Isolder of the Hapes Consortium estimated that the Hapes Consortium boasted of "billions of warriors," despite being a mere fraction of the Empire's size. Considering that there were at least two Regions in the Empire consisting of "thousands" of Sectors, and that the Emperor had command of "thousands" of Sector Groups -- both facts stated quite literally in black-and-white in the Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition -- the Empire's military must number into the trillions when one counts the entire combat and support forces of the Imperial Navy, Imperial Army, and Imperial Marines, to say nothing of such organizations as Imperial Intelligence, CompForce, and the various 'allied' military forces that operated in cooperation with the Imperial armed forces.The OB quoted in the Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition claims that a battle squadron includes at least one Imperial Star Destroyer, and that the standard Sector Group (SECTGRU) configuration includes some 24 battle squadrons (an augmented SECTGRU includes 72 battle squadrons, and a particularly influential Sector Governor like Moff Governor Carlinson can arrange for as many as 25 additional squadrons to be assigned to Headquarters Sector Group); it goes on to say that the average SECTGRU "can be expected to contain at least 2,400 ships, 24 of which are Star Destroyers, and another 1,600 combat starships" (interestingly, it specifically says that "thousands of Sector Groups are at the Emperor's command as he seeks to bring the galaxy firmly under his control"). Given that the commonest mile-long Imperial Star Destroyer costs some 3.88 billion credits (or more), it can be safely estimated that each SECTGRU represents a minimum investment of some 93.1 billion credits on the part of the Imperial Navy. Each Star Destroyer is said to carry a Marine Detachment (MARDET) numbering some 9,700 stormtroopers; this is roughly comparable to an Army battlegroup (with few exceptions, the Imperial Army does not use the term "division"), and allows one to calculate that a standard SECTGRU would include 232,800 stormtroopers in MARDETs alone, in addition to whatever MARDETs may be embarked aboard other ships and the unknown number of Marine legions (the Imperial Marines' preferred terminology for a battlegroup/division) not embarked aboard any ship but rather used as expeditionary forces or surface combat formations. For example, Rules of Engagement: The Rebel SpecForce Handbook mentions that one legion, The Moff's Own, is always under the direct personal command of the eponymous Moff.
The OB describes Army organization as being rather more geometric than the Navy's. A standard Sector Army is said to consist of two systems armies, each of which itself consists of two armies of four corps apiece, each corps itself consisting of five battlegroups, thus making the standard Sector Army a force some 80 battlegroups strong; an augmented Sector Army is considerably larger, containing four systems armies of four armies of eight corps of nine battlegroups apiece, numbering some 1,152 battlegroups in total, a military force some fourteen times larger than its standard counterpart. The OB specifically says that the standard Sector Army consists of "774,576 troops and 1,180,309 personnel in total," with "66,640 repulsorcraft" and "13,992 heavy tanks." These figures are, however, unsatisfactory. Given such figures, an Empire of one thousand Sectors could be expected to field a total military force of approximately 775 million combat soldiers (not counting strategic reserves or Marine expeditionary forces), in a galaxy whose population was estimated by The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, Second Edition at "nearly 100 quadrillion beings"; the militaristic and expansionist Empire would have a fighting military force approximately 0.000000775% the size of the galaxy's population. Needless to say this irregularly low figure cannot possibly represent the actual state of affairs, and one is forced to conclude that the OB drastically understates the size of the Imperial Army's forces in any given Sector; this is perfectly acceptable, as in the preface to the book the notional editor in chief, Arhul Hextrophon, specifically cautions against "reading too much into this report at this time," as "none of the information contained herein has been confirmed or documented outside of the data presented here," suggesting that "until collaborated, this report should be considered high level rumor at best." Consider that in Darksaber thirteen of the most powerful warlords of the post-Imperial era controlled resources that pooled together into a paltry fleet of a Super Star Destroyer, 45 Imperial Star Destroyers, and 112 Victory Star Destroyers – equivalent only to three or four SECTGRUs (fewer if one considers that a fully augmented SECTGRU under a particularly influential Moff could have as many as 97 Imperial Star Destroyers) – but controlled "millions upon millions of stormtroopers" according to "Fleet Admiral" Daala. The constraints of realism force one to conclude that the Imperial State was in the habit of lying shamelessly about the size of its military forces, drastically underreporting their strength. Possibly this could be part of an elaborate ruse intended to draw more funding from the Imperial Senate, led to believe that there were serious manpower shortages in the Army?