"Obi Wan Once thought as you do."

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-16 02:44pm

Okay, another in a series of examinations of OT quotes that link with the Prequels.

Here we all know the scene in ROTJ, Luke askes Vader: "Come with me." Vader replies (sadness or weariness in his voice) "Obi Wan once thought as you do." We KNOW there will be a knock down drag out duel between Obi and Vader that cripples him. We know this from the EU and from the fact that Ewen has stated in several interviews that he has already begun physically training for the duel between him and Anakin, promising fans that it will be the best duel EVER in SW.

But there did not seem to be alot of rancor in Vader's voice when he aluded to that duel with Luke.

Here are my thoughts: Obi Wan tries to bring Anakin back from the Dark Side AFTER the Jedi purge begins and the temple is destroyed...in FACT I'm willing to bet that GL actually has the Jedi purge occur on screen in a way that there is no doubt that the Jedi are all but extinct. How?

Ep.III starts at the tale end of the clone wars...after the war is over, the Jedi's numbers have dwindled to the point where from 10,000 they now have at most a few hundred Jedi. (Think of the casualties suffered in one single engagement on Geonosis...the fact that the vast majority of Jedi are scattered and alone throughout the galaxy making them easy pickings for a dedicated droid army attack) They all gather at the Jedi temple to discuss their future...WHAM down comes the Imperial smackdown with Yoda and Obi escaping (barely) and Mace falling as he fights a desperate rearguard action to save them. Like fish in a barrel and the order is dead.

Anyway. Obi, against Yoda's orders and judgement, decides to confront Anakin to turn him back from the dark side as Yoda cares for the children on Dagobah with Padme. ("He is reckless." "So was I, if you recall")

Obi confronts Anakin and asks him to return with him. "Come with me." Anakin is torn because Obi is his father figure, but the power of the dark side (another quote that will be analyzed in another thread) will not let him go. He cannot let go of his hate and in his anger he refuses and Obi is frustarted and cannot allow Anakin to continue so they duel, but it is obviously painful for both of them. It becomes more furious as Anakin grows angrier and frustrated that he cannot defeat his old teacher. In fact Anakin probably says "I have become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" A line that Obi throws BACK in his face when they face each other again on the Death Star.

The deul ends with Obi MISTAKENLY shoving Anakin into the pit. perhaps a lightsaber cut severs some supports on a catwalk where they fight and Obi is able to leap to safety. It has to be mistaken because I don't think Vader HATES Obi enough in the trilogy.

IN fact when they face each other again, it is more of a taunting hatred, not a full out you crippled me you son of a bitch and you're going to pay. What was the worse line he dished out? "Your powers are WEAK old man." Tying into Anakin's OBSESSION with power. "YOu should not have come back." These are not lines you say to someone who intentionally left you a cripple and forced you to become more machine than man. These are lines you utter to someone who you once respected but no longer do.

So in closing, the line shows that Vader still cared and recognized that Obi loved him. "Obi Wan once felt as you do." listen to the tone in his voice. There is real sorrow and regret there. James Earl Jones RULES with his voice.

Anyway, this is part of a series of threads on the examination of the links between the OT and the prequels. WHy? Because GL says that there are links, his story is circular, things that happen in one echo in the next.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-16 05:11pm

Well, if you are right, then Ep. III will be very depressing and full of heartbreak, something that would not happen in the Star Wars happy go lucky universe. See Ep. I for evidence.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-12-16 05:22pm

FaxModem1 wrote:Well, if you are right, then Ep. III will be very depressing and full of heartbreak, something that would not happen in the Star Wars happy go lucky universe. See Ep. I for evidence.

See Eisode V for evidence. Wait, those were the good old days. Pity they aren't here.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-12-16 05:23pm

Not to be a dick...but I don't really care until I see the movie. This kind of speculation doesn't quite get anywhere and it has really been done to death.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-12-16 06:08pm

However....GL said Episode III would be THE darkest of them all...darker than even TESB. !!!

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-16 06:10pm

You know what Illuminatus, you don't have to post to the thread if you don't like it. Seriously, its just speculation and until Ep. III comes out thats all we can do. Its fun for those of us who like to predict these things and if you don't want to join in on it that's purely your right to do so and I respect that, but this is the second thread you've posted your displeasure about this line of questioning and so please, I know what you feel and if you don't like it don't post.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-12-16 06:24pm

You're right Stravo. Sorry. Regardless I was a dick. Stressed week...no sleep. I'll bug out of these. Sorry.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-16 06:33pm

It's OK, Illuminatus, I've been there myself.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-16 06:40pm

SLJ doesn't want his character to die like some extra, he wants Mace to have a decent death scene, so I, like others suspect he'll die at Bobas hands.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-16 08:20pm

How is getting knocked off by a 12, maybe 13 year old kid decent?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-16 08:24pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:How is getting knocked off by a 12, maybe 13 year old kid decent?

Mabey if he had some form of preprotype production Phase III Dark Trooper armor, with a galting blaster.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-16 09:00pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:How is getting knocked off by a 12, maybe 13 year old kid decent?

Look at Mike's suggestion for it. That would make a badass death for Mace and a start to the Boba Fett legend.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-16 09:56pm

I just want to see Obi-Wan open up a can of whoop-ass on Anakin! I think that makes it the fifth time I have made this statement!

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-16 09:59pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:How is getting knocked off by a 12, maybe 13 year old kid decent?
Look at Mike's suggestion for it. That would make a badass death for Mace and a start to the Boba Fett legend.

No, it'd be at the same level as Mace breaking his neck by slipping in the shower: pathetic.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-16 10:00pm

I concur with Spanky on this, Mace needs a badass death scene, something like Black Hawk Down...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-16 10:24pm

You can see my expanded opinion on this in the "No Disintegrations" thread.

A lot of this seems to be just wanking disguised as analysis, to me. Start thinking more with your brains and without your hands down your pants. And learn to recognise a stupid idea, for Christ's sake.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-16 10:27pm

I would just like to point out to the wankfest crowd that Boba, the BADDEST MOFO in the OT was killed by a blind Han Solo who accidently tripped his rocket pack and sent him into the Sarlacc...so I wouldn't assume what GL think is a cool death

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-12-16 10:37pm

Crown wrote:I concur with Spanky on this, Mace needs a badass death scene, something like Black Hawk Down...

I can see Mace standing his ground to protect an evacuating group of young padawans or some such against absolutely overwhelming odds.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-16 10:37pm

I will continue to rail vehemently against the foolishness that is Boba killing Mace repeatedly, wherever and however it appears

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-16 10:37pm

At least Fett was killed by a God damn adult...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-16 10:44pm

Stravo wrote:I would just like to point out to the wankfest crowd that Boba, the BADDEST MOFO in the OT was killed by a blind Han Solo who accidently tripped his rocket pack and sent him into the Sarlacc...so I wouldn't assume what GL think is a cool death

I think the whole Boba worship comes from him being the only one who would challenge Vader in TESB. You gotta admit, that took balls.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2002-12-16 10:55pm

Dooku and Mace duel. Mace falls, and Yoda shows up, and puts the smack down on Dooku.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-16 11:02pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Dooku and Mace duel. Mace falls, and Yoda shows up, and puts the smack down on Dooku.

Not a chance in hell. Anakin will kill Tyranus, nooone else, he will then become Vader, and it will be Vader (without suit) who kills Mace.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-16 11:04pm

Crown wrote:
Stravo wrote:I would just like to point out to the wankfest crowd that Boba, the BADDEST MOFO in the OT was killed by a blind Han Solo who accidently tripped his rocket pack and sent him into the Sarlacc...so I wouldn't assume what GL think is a cool death

That's the whole point. It wasn't a cool death. To Lucas he was a minor character to be killed at a whim- he doesn't get the fans obsession with the character, but chose to put in Fett in the prequels to say sorry for killing Boba in such a small fry way. Even so- Jango got his ass handed to him in seconds.

Mr Jackson has repeatedly said he's not gonna go out like a punk. End of story. All Boba killing Mace talk is pure wank.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-16 11:36pm

I hope to hell that Boba flash fries Mace's ass in an instant. Just full on screen glory.