"Obi Wan Once thought as you do."
Posted: 2002-12-16 02:44pm
Okay, another in a series of examinations of OT quotes that link with the Prequels.
Here we all know the scene in ROTJ, Luke askes Vader: "Come with me." Vader replies (sadness or weariness in his voice) "Obi Wan once thought as you do." We KNOW there will be a knock down drag out duel between Obi and Vader that cripples him. We know this from the EU and from the fact that Ewen has stated in several interviews that he has already begun physically training for the duel between him and Anakin, promising fans that it will be the best duel EVER in SW.
But there did not seem to be alot of rancor in Vader's voice when he aluded to that duel with Luke.
Here are my thoughts: Obi Wan tries to bring Anakin back from the Dark Side AFTER the Jedi purge begins and the temple is destroyed...in FACT I'm willing to bet that GL actually has the Jedi purge occur on screen in a way that there is no doubt that the Jedi are all but extinct. How?
Ep.III starts at the tale end of the clone wars...after the war is over, the Jedi's numbers have dwindled to the point where from 10,000 they now have at most a few hundred Jedi. (Think of the casualties suffered in one single engagement on Geonosis...the fact that the vast majority of Jedi are scattered and alone throughout the galaxy making them easy pickings for a dedicated droid army attack) They all gather at the Jedi temple to discuss their future...WHAM down comes the Imperial smackdown with Yoda and Obi escaping (barely) and Mace falling as he fights a desperate rearguard action to save them. Like fish in a barrel and the order is dead.
Anyway. Obi, against Yoda's orders and judgement, decides to confront Anakin to turn him back from the dark side as Yoda cares for the children on Dagobah with Padme. ("He is reckless." "So was I, if you recall")
Obi confronts Anakin and asks him to return with him. "Come with me." Anakin is torn because Obi is his father figure, but the power of the dark side (another quote that will be analyzed in another thread) will not let him go. He cannot let go of his hate and in his anger he refuses and Obi is frustarted and cannot allow Anakin to continue so they duel, but it is obviously painful for both of them. It becomes more furious as Anakin grows angrier and frustrated that he cannot defeat his old teacher. In fact Anakin probably says "I have become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" A line that Obi throws BACK in his face when they face each other again on the Death Star.
The deul ends with Obi MISTAKENLY shoving Anakin into the pit. perhaps a lightsaber cut severs some supports on a catwalk where they fight and Obi is able to leap to safety. It has to be mistaken because I don't think Vader HATES Obi enough in the trilogy.
IN fact when they face each other again, it is more of a taunting hatred, not a full out you crippled me you son of a bitch and you're going to pay. What was the worse line he dished out? "Your powers are WEAK old man." Tying into Anakin's OBSESSION with power. "YOu should not have come back." These are not lines you say to someone who intentionally left you a cripple and forced you to become more machine than man. These are lines you utter to someone who you once respected but no longer do.
So in closing, the line shows that Vader still cared and recognized that Obi loved him. "Obi Wan once felt as you do." listen to the tone in his voice. There is real sorrow and regret there. James Earl Jones RULES with his voice.
Anyway, this is part of a series of threads on the examination of the links between the OT and the prequels. WHy? Because GL says that there are links, his story is circular, things that happen in one echo in the next.
Here we all know the scene in ROTJ, Luke askes Vader: "Come with me." Vader replies (sadness or weariness in his voice) "Obi Wan once thought as you do." We KNOW there will be a knock down drag out duel between Obi and Vader that cripples him. We know this from the EU and from the fact that Ewen has stated in several interviews that he has already begun physically training for the duel between him and Anakin, promising fans that it will be the best duel EVER in SW.
But there did not seem to be alot of rancor in Vader's voice when he aluded to that duel with Luke.
Here are my thoughts: Obi Wan tries to bring Anakin back from the Dark Side AFTER the Jedi purge begins and the temple is destroyed...in FACT I'm willing to bet that GL actually has the Jedi purge occur on screen in a way that there is no doubt that the Jedi are all but extinct. How?
Ep.III starts at the tale end of the clone wars...after the war is over, the Jedi's numbers have dwindled to the point where from 10,000 they now have at most a few hundred Jedi. (Think of the casualties suffered in one single engagement on Geonosis...the fact that the vast majority of Jedi are scattered and alone throughout the galaxy making them easy pickings for a dedicated droid army attack) They all gather at the Jedi temple to discuss their future...WHAM down comes the Imperial smackdown with Yoda and Obi escaping (barely) and Mace falling as he fights a desperate rearguard action to save them. Like fish in a barrel and the order is dead.
Anyway. Obi, against Yoda's orders and judgement, decides to confront Anakin to turn him back from the dark side as Yoda cares for the children on Dagobah with Padme. ("He is reckless." "So was I, if you recall")
Obi confronts Anakin and asks him to return with him. "Come with me." Anakin is torn because Obi is his father figure, but the power of the dark side (another quote that will be analyzed in another thread) will not let him go. He cannot let go of his hate and in his anger he refuses and Obi is frustarted and cannot allow Anakin to continue so they duel, but it is obviously painful for both of them. It becomes more furious as Anakin grows angrier and frustrated that he cannot defeat his old teacher. In fact Anakin probably says "I have become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" A line that Obi throws BACK in his face when they face each other again on the Death Star.
The deul ends with Obi MISTAKENLY shoving Anakin into the pit. perhaps a lightsaber cut severs some supports on a catwalk where they fight and Obi is able to leap to safety. It has to be mistaken because I don't think Vader HATES Obi enough in the trilogy.
IN fact when they face each other again, it is more of a taunting hatred, not a full out you crippled me you son of a bitch and you're going to pay. What was the worse line he dished out? "Your powers are WEAK old man." Tying into Anakin's OBSESSION with power. "YOu should not have come back." These are not lines you say to someone who intentionally left you a cripple and forced you to become more machine than man. These are lines you utter to someone who you once respected but no longer do.
So in closing, the line shows that Vader still cared and recognized that Obi loved him. "Obi Wan once felt as you do." listen to the tone in his voice. There is real sorrow and regret there. James Earl Jones RULES with his voice.
Anyway, this is part of a series of threads on the examination of the links between the OT and the prequels. WHy? Because GL says that there are links, his story is circular, things that happen in one echo in the next.
