Vaders "rank".

Engineer_00 · Post by **Engineer_00** » 2002-12-16 10:31pm

I've been thinking about this for a long while. Does Vader hold official rank in the Imperial army? Or does it have something to do with him being a Darth?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-16 10:39pm

He's not in the military, he's more like Palpys right hand man.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-16 10:47pm

Engineer_00 wrote:I've been thinking about this for a long while. Does Vader hold official rank in the Imperial army? Or does it have something to do with him being a Darth?

Darth is a Sith title.

He is probably right under Palpatine, the supreme leader of the military. So while he doesn't seem to have an official rank in the military, he does have sway.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-16 10:53pm

Dark Empire said that Luke held the same rank of Vader under the Emporer: Supreme Commander.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-16 11:02pm

Technically Vader is outside of the normal military command structure. He yields greater overall power then any military commander, but for the most part has LESS control over aspects of the military then Grand Admirals do. Vader also has less control over government aspects then Grand Moffs do. He can excercise more control if his wishes to, but that is generally a bad thing. Vader is Palpatines "Lieutenant". He is the second in command and most things go through Vader, but that does not mean he excercises more control on any one thing then the various CINCs and sector govenors. Vader has his own personal military forces that operate outside normal military command and Vader can get more military forces that way. He can also punish people in both the military or citizenry by his own rules.

In many ways Vader has lots of theoretical power, but the wide array of powers he has actually constricts his overall power. One way to look at who can yield more "impressive" power is Thrawn and how he used the military for near total control, but left citizen control to the local moffs.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-16 11:08pm

His rank is Executor. It's a civilian title with the ability to call on military forces. He's got something like a Moff's power militaryly, I'd say.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-16 11:08pm

Darth is a sith name, rather than a sith title. The sith title is quite simply Lord. Lord Sidious, Maul, Tyranus, Vader etc.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-16 11:14pm

Stormbringer wrote:His rank is Executor. It's a civilian title with the ability to call on military forces. He's got something like a Moff's power militaryly, I'd say.

He has quasi powers that extend to ANY region. He exerts a level of control over the military similar to a Grand Moff, though he can do this anywhere and command even Grand Admirals. He is a cross between a Grand Moff and a Grand Admiral with power over either of them, but less total control because of this.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-16 11:38pm

Lord of the Sith...

Probably doesn't have a formal rank, but has authority equal to a Grand Admiral, or perhapes just above.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-16 11:56pm

From the looks of what they did in the movies and EU...he's pretty much above everyone else...but only when he's persay there.

Though EU(Dark Empire) does say he was Supreme Commander...I don't think he overrides personal sectors as much as he gives orders...and then how they are carried out is as much personal power he exerts.

I say the better way is the Executor title( as someone already mentioned once again because of EU was held by Sedriss...another Dark Jedi)...he's the right hand of the Emperor...he has push because of who he knows more than because military acumen.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-17 12:12am

Vympel wrote:Darth is a sith name, rather than a sith title. The sith title is quite simply Lord. Lord Sidious, Maul, Tyranus, Vader etc.

Really? Where did it say that.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-17 12:14am

neoolong wrote:
Really? Where did it say that.

Doesn't say that anywhere- I just figured it out- if Darth is a title, then that means that they only have one name, and two titles- Lord, and Darth. That's stoopid

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-17 12:18am

Additional circumstantial evidence

"by the name of Darth Vader ..." Obi-Wan telling Luke in ANH that Vader betrayed and murdered his father

Darth Vader is addressed as Lord by Imperial officers, rather than Darth

Sith Lords address themselves as Lord, rather than Darth ("Welcome home Lord Tyranus")

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-12-17 01:11am

I Know from the New Hope Novelization that Tarkin had the power to overrule Vader. It appears that Vader's position sits between a Grand Moff and a Grand Admiral. After Tarkin's death, the Emperor did not replace Tarkin's position and seemed to have left it in hands of Vader to do the job.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-17 01:45am

Alyeska wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:His rank is Executor. It's a civilian title with the ability to call on military forces. He's got something like a Moff's power militaryly, I'd say.
He has quasi powers that extend to ANY region. He exerts a level of control over the military similar to a Grand Moff, though he can do this anywhere and command even Grand Admirals. He is a cross between a Grand Moff and a Grand Admiral with power over either of them, but less total control because of this.

He can, and that's more on the civilian side. Military stuff from Vader is carried out by military men.

And remember he couldn't overrule Tarkin and there were a few points where I'm sure he would have if he could have.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2002-12-17 03:07am

He may have simply respected Tarkin. They could have a history with eachother. It may be that neither one of them "outranked" each other in a strictly hierarchial sense.

I'm pretty sure that Darth is a title. Perhaps a contraction of Dark Lord of the Sith? Cheesy, but possible!

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2002-12-17 03:08am

Didn't Dooku refer to "Darth Sideous" when he was talking to Obi-Wan?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-17 03:35am

Yup he did.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-17 05:09am

Isolder74 wrote:I Know from the New Hope Novelization that Tarkin had the power to overrule Vader. It appears that Vader's position sits between a Grand Moff and a Grand Admiral. After Tarkin's death, the Emperor did not replace Tarkin's position and seemed to have left it in hands of Vader to do the job.

That's true but only for ANH...

After Tarkin's death I'm quite sure that a new person was promoted to take Tarkin's rank. He was a Sector Governor. (Grand Moff)

Vader in that was just a tool like Maul was in TPM.

After the Battle of Yavin Vader was promoted by Palpy to be Supreme Commander. He lead the Death Squadron and could use whatever he wants to crush the Rebel Alliance. So he didn't took Tarkin's position.
He became something much powerfull above Admirals and even above Vice Admirals, second to the Emperor.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-12-17 02:24pm

He may have simply respected Tarkin. They could have a history with eachother. It may be that neither one of them "outranked" each other in a strictly hierarchial sense.

Another related reason: Wise leaders cultivate good working relationships with their subordinates and equals and superiors. It was obvious those two had something akin to friendship. At least, they respected each other and trusted each other implicitly. I'm not sure if either man was capable of true self-sacrifice, but they were about as close as scions of evil could be.

In any event, Darth Vader was akin to being the Sectretary of Defense and Secretary of Stae all in one.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-17 02:24pm

I reckon Palpy had several people to help him rule the galaxy. Tarkin took care of the military, Sate Pestage the high Zizor or something took care of the politicians, and Vader took care of giving short sharp shocks. there were also force trained "hands" to do the stuff Vader couldn't be seen to do.

So in a military situation although they were of the same position Vadr would have defered to Tarkin coz it was his area.

Engineer_00 · Post by **Engineer_00** » 2002-12-17 03:52pm

That's right! In ANH Tarkin did order Vader, and Vader listened. Thanks for enlightening me, everyone. Just to make sure, Tarkin was a Governor in ANH, right?

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-12-17 04:21pm

Remember that Death Star was Tarkin's own turf. After all, it was his own pet project and he was in charge of it. This might explain why Vader acted the way he did in ANH.

@ Engineer
Yes, he was a governor of the Outland regions.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-12-17 06:23pm

Director of Homeland Security?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2002-12-17 08:54pm

Tarkin = top dog on the Death Star, answering only to the Emperor.

Darth Vader = top dog just about anywhere else.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Vaders "rank".

Vaders "rank".

Re: Vaders "rank".

That's right!