Can Gen Grevious deflect blaster bolts ?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2006-02-10 04:53am

Grevious has reflexes fast enough to duel with Jedi Knights. So can he deflect blaster bolts with lightsabers too ?

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2006-02-10 05:00am

I believe that it takes more than reflexes to deflect a blaster bolt - It takes precognition. Otherwise, even super-speed Jedi wouldn't be able to move fast enough to block it.

OTOH, was precognition even mentioned in the OT? Maybe bolt-blocking was initially meant to be purely a reflex thing, but was later ret-conned into a pre-cog thing.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2006-02-10 07:11am

Please, by the way Gravy's described in the ROTS novl, I fail to see why not.

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2006-02-10 07:19am

I haven't read the novelisation - Is Grevious seriously wanked out in it?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-10 07:21am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Please, by the way Gravy's described in the ROTS novl, I fail to see why not.

Umm...because maybe just maybe, the only reason JEDI block shots has not fuck one do to do with reflexes and all fuck to do with PRECOGNITIVE TALENTS.

But you'll gladly show us where they consistently show Jedi in both film and novel needing Precog talents to do this, how a fast cyborg is suddenly gaining this ability, right?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-10 07:23am

WyrdNyrd wrote:I haven't read the novelisation - Is Grevious seriously wanked out in it?

No, he's wanking it out, because Grievious is on par with Jedi speed but only in close combat. There was never a show that he could accurately predict where a blaster shot would land as well as if he had said ability, I doubt he would've left...as Shroom either wants to fail to remember from the movie, or he's being ignorant himself completely wide open after Obi-Wan was laying into SINGLE SHOT style.

The book gives speeds, because GG is made to overcome a Jedi with this and intimidation...not because he's suddenly on par with all their talents.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-10 07:36am

Grievous defeats Jedi by laying into them with between two to four times more lightsabers than the Jedi have, and swinging each blade rather rapidly at that. He also reduces or negates their strengths by surprising and intimidating them; the distraction weakens their ability to use the Force for precognition or physical feats.

It by no means indicates he can use a lightsaber to interact in a similar manner with ranged weapon fire.

This is irrelevant to the actual discussion, but it may be worth mentioning that Grievous may not need to deflect blaster bolts. The shots that killed him seems to suggest that his armor plates are resistant to small-arms blaster fire; the DT-57 Annihilator blaster is supposedly considerably more powerful than comparably sized blasters, yet it was unable to create an exit wound through his back armor despite repeated hits.
I doubt the organ sac impeded the blaster fire much especially after the first couple of shots.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-10 07:46am

Cykeisme wrote:This is irrelevant to the actual discussion, but it may be worth mentioning that Grievous may not need to deflect blaster bolts. The shots that killed him seems to suggest that his armor plates are resistant to small-arms blaster fire; the DT-57 Annihilator blaster is supposedly considerably more powerful than comparably sized blasters, yet it was unable to create an exit wound through his back armor despite repeated hits.
I doubt the organ sac impeded the blaster fire much especially after the first couple of shots.

Someindications are possible given that in the movie he can apply enough force to hit a starfighter, and not break the hand. Obi Wan mentions what it's made of and makes some allusions to being Starfighter grade, but that part is unreliable given Obi Wan hardly had time to pick at GG.

The organ sac and hell every biological part went aflame. So if he was able to deflect shots and with his chest wide open?

He either cannot or the biggest retard in SW.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2006-02-10 07:48am

The Clone Wars cartoon also indicates that he's not able to, as he uses rapid movement to evade blaster fire, and is not once seen parrying it.

The only instance I can recall of it happening is in the Lego SW video game, where it pretty clear that its a game mechanic to balance him with all the other lightsaber wielders without having to fiddle with the game works too much.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-02-10 08:15am

Ghost Rider wrote: Some indications are possible given that in the movie he can apply enough force to hit a starfighter, and not break the hand. Obi Wan mentions what it's made of and makes some allusions to being Starfighter grade, but that part is unreliable given Obi Wan hardly had time to pick at GG.

He distinctly dents his own starfighter when he punches at Obi-wan and the Jedi dodges. His hand seems quite functional afterwards. It's not an unreasonable conclusion that his droid body is composed of material at least as tough, if not tougher, than the sheets of metal used to cover starfighters.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-10 08:19am

Elheru Aran wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote: Some indications are possible given that in the movie he can apply enough force to hit a starfighter, and not break the hand. Obi Wan mentions what it's made of and makes some allusions to being Starfighter grade, but that part is unreliable given Obi Wan hardly had time to pick at GG.
He distinctly dents his own starfighter when he punches at Obi-wan and the Jedi dodges. His hand seems quite functional afterwards. It's not an unreasonable conclusion that his droid body is composed of material at least as tough, if not tougher, than the sheets of metal used to cover starfighters.

Jeez...

-Your hand breaks through a concrete block.

Is your hand on that level of durability as that block of concrete?

No, it's a matter of concentrated force upon a small area. That gives no indication that it's the same grade of material. Just means you can apply enough force and your hand has at least enough durability to withstand the needed force to go through or in this case dent said material.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2006-02-10 08:55am

WyrdNyrd wrote:OTOH, was precognition even mentioned in the OT? Maybe bolt-blocking was initially meant to be purely a reflex thing, but was later ret-conned into a pre-cog thing.

You mean, besides the Millenium Falcon training scene, where Obi-Wan puts the blinders on Luke and forces him to deflect bolts under those conditions? That was definitely not a pure reflex thing.

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2006-02-10 09:06am

Civil War Man wrote:You mean, besides the Millenium Falcon training scene, where Obi-Wan puts the blinders on Luke and forces him to deflect bolts under those conditions? That was definitely not a pure reflex thing.

I thought that was just using the force to detect where the droid was, rather than where it was going to be. In fact, I recall reading that exact description somewhere, something about detecting even non-living things by the "hole" they left in the force. No mention was made of pre-cog.

The pre-cog certainly makes sense, though. It would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to detect both where the droid was aiming, and when it would fire. It's just that, with my (admittedly limited) exposure to the EU, I've never come across any explicit mention of pre-cog pre-TPM.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2006-02-10 11:52am

The idea is the Force would let Luke 'see' the droid, and the Force would also guide his actions if he let it--precog. Luke is not seeing the droid's next move, but the Force is and it guides his hand to counter what hasn't quite happened yet. That is how I view this scene; there are others that will tell you the Jedi actually see the future events and move of their own accord, but I favor the Force doing all the 'seeing' so to speak.

Koolaidkirby · Post by **Koolaidkirby** » 2006-02-10 02:05pm

I've always figured(from watching the remote droid scene in ANH) that luke was trying to block the blaster bolt wanna-be's using sight and reflexes alone at first(and was fairly unsucessful in trying to do so), and until Ben put the helmet on him, he was not using his precog/force senses to know where the bolts were going to land

And if using luke as a guideline for reflexes means anything(potential jedi are supposed to have super reflexes), I'd have to say that he may be able to block one or two out of sheer luck, but would not be able to block bolts to anywhere near the extent a jedi is able to.

Jedi Guardian · Post by **Jedi Guardian** » 2006-02-10 05:53pm

He lost 2 of his hands so fast because he wasn't fast enough to block Obi-Wan's lightsaber I imagine he couldn't block crap! But that cool looking spin your lightsaber in a circle thing could probably get him far. All he really has to do is hold his lightsaber in front of him, then move it to his side when he wants to attack, then block, then attack, ect.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-10 07:37pm

I think there's enough evidence to strongly suggest two things:

1) Grievous cannot deflect blaster bolts. Jedi are guided by the Force.
2) The General's armor is strong enough to defeat small-arms blaster fire anyway.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-02-11 12:00am

WyrdNyrd wrote:
Civil War Man wrote:You mean, besides the Millenium Falcon training scene, where Obi-Wan puts the blinders on Luke and forces him to deflect bolts under those conditions? That was definitely not a pure reflex thing.
I thought that was just using the force to detect where the droid was, rather than where it was going to be. In fact, I recall reading that exact description somewhere, something about detecting even non-living things by the "hole" they left in the force. No mention was made of pre-cog.

The pre-cog certainly makes sense, though. It would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to detect both where the droid was aiming, and when it would fire. It's just that, with my (admittedly limited) exposure to the EU, I've never come across any explicit mention of pre-cog pre-TPM.

LUKE: You mean it controls your actions?

BEN: Partially. But it also obeys your commands.

you can actively use the Force, but there are times when the Force does it for you.

Look at RotS; Obi Wan is totally connected to the Force when he fights Greivious, he doesn't think about it, he just does it.

Sounds more along the line of Precog.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-02-11 12:09am

Grievous wouldn't be able to react TO the bolt and deflect, but he could arguably out-react the guy holding the gun if he's got human-level reflexes (his reflexes are alot faster) - this is more of a predictive ability, though, not actual precognition, so it would be alot less effective. (this is probably another reason why he's made from blaster-resistant armor.)

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2006-02-11 01:39am

Considering how slow blaster bolts are, I don’t see why given Star Wars technology it wouldn’t be possible to make a robot that could block them.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-11 06:46am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Considering how slow blaster bolts are, I don’t see why given Star Wars technology it wouldn’t be possible to make a robot that could block them.

This is one of the puzzling things that's hard to nail down. The velocity of the visible portion of blaster fire seems to vary greatly, even when observing the same class of weapon. The kicker is, it's been observed that some invisible component of the beam sometimes causes damage before the visible bolt arrives at the target.

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-02-11 10:28am

I've always viewed the visible part of the blaster bolt as a sort of "tracer" to simply aid in aiming.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2006-02-11 11:34am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Considering how slow blaster bolts are, I don’t see why given Star Wars technology it wouldn’t be possible to make a robot that could block them.

I think regardless of bolt speed, its more a function of calculating the trajectory of said bolt as the trigger is pulled and having the ability to put a hand there to deflect it in time. The latter is probably the hardest part, if C-3PO can know six billion forms of communication then it shouldn't be that much of a task to figure out where a bolt is going to go just by watching where the barrel is when the trigger is pulled. But putting a hand in the path in however many fractions of a second is going to be hard without precog.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-11 03:36pm

Doctor Doom wrote:I've always viewed the visible part of the blaster bolt as a sort of "tracer" to simply aid in aiming.

that would indeed make much sense but in watching the films (there is a good example in RotS, order 66) the people getting shot dont fall or get hurt until the actual laser beam hits them.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-02-11 03:47pm

Grevious was MADE to be able to withstand blaster bolts for a reason, I think.