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Could mechanical vader actually beat any jedi in a sword fight?
Mace?
Yoda?
Obi-Wan (when he was young)

there are many more,


Could he beat any of them?

You have obviously never watched ESB or ANH.

Nor read 'Dark Lord'. Nor 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye'. Nor Shadows of the Empire-- though to be fair, that one is a duelling droid, but he does say it would be on a par with most Jedi IIRC.

Learn the Expanded Universe you should, young one...

Well, if Vader couldn't, then he wouldn't have been credited with slaughtering the Jedi.

those 3 are hardy a good example of your typical Jedi

Obi-Wan is the Master of Style 3
Mace Windu is one of the best swordmasters of the Jedi Order
Yoda is one of the most powerfull members of the Jedi Order (and a very skillfull swordmaster (again))

most(if not all) Jedi that Vader (post-Mustafar) encountered and defeated were nowhere near to the power of those examples
and Darth Vader can easily defeat a typical jedi.

I believe it is "Dark Lord," as well as the all-mighty retcon, that implies that Darth Vader has a unique lightsaber style. It is, quite simply, a mixture of aspects of all lightsaber styles. As can be seen in the movies, the style used plays a very important role in a duel (for example, Obi-Wan was a master of a certain style, I forget which one, and was able to easily defeat General Grievous and hold his own against Anakin on Mustafar, whereas he was consistenly defeated by Count Dooku and later Vader on the Death star). Vader's unique style gives him an edge against other Jedi opponents.

With a combination of clouding their minds to overcome their will, telekinetic attacks, and his brutal strength delivering a unique, efficient application of his knowledge of all the different styles.. yeah, he kicks a truckload of ass.

It took him a while to shake off his doubts and reach his potential after his transformation, but after that, he was pretty damn powerful. To be honest I'm not sure about Mace, but Darth Vader is the Chosen One.

Do we actually have confirmation on him being the "Chosen One?" In Dark Lord I think around page 126 or so, the Jedi in their talking seem to reveal the prophecy, which goes something like:

In the dark times a Chosen One will be born to bring balance to the Force.

That seems to fit Luke more then Anakin. Anakin wasn't really born in dark times, Luke was.

Vader did kill the Dark Woman so I say he is more then adequate to handle a Jed Knight.

Sometimes I wonder if Vader is holding back on some fights. If I were Vader, I would get the person off guard, choke him in air, then bring him to me and stab the SOB in air. Quick, simple, fun.

Jedi Guardian wrote:Sometimes I wonder if Vader is holding back on some fights. If I were Vader, I would get the person off guard, choke him in air, then bring him to me and stab the SOB in air. Quick, simple, fun.

A decent Force-user can defend against and negate a Force Choke or similar technique in battle, perhaps even passively. That would only work if your opponent was already all but defeated.

Noble Ire wrote:A decent Force-user can defend against and negate a Force Choke or similar technique in battle, perhaps even passively. That would only work if your opponent was already all but defeated.

Yes but there was this comic during the Clone Wars, I don't remember which exactly, but Dooku was Force Choking a Jedi he was fighting. I think that if you manage to catch them off guard then you can manage to screw around with there throat.

Jedi Guardian wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:A decent Force-user can defend against and negate a Force Choke or similar technique in battle, perhaps even passively. That would only work if your opponent was already all but defeated.

Yes but there was this comic during the Clone Wars, I don't remember which exactly, but Dooku was Force Choking a Jedi he was fighting. I think that if you manage to catch them off guard then you can manage to screw around with there throat.

I agree with Noble Ire's statement. If he was indeed force-choking a Jedi, they must have either been incredibly inadept with the force, or very injured. Do you remember the Jedi?

But I do have to give you this: Dooku was of above-average strength in using and applying the force for dirty deeds.

Lukedanieljames wrote:Could mechanical vader actually beat any jedi in a sword fight?
Mace?
Yoda?
Obi-Wan (when he was young)

there are many more,


Could he beat any of them?

I do not think that Vader actually "defeated" Obi-wan in ANH. Obi-wan was just teaching Luke some kind of moral, or something. Watching the fight, Old Man Obi was checking every move the mechanical Sith threw at him, and Vader wasn't really holding back. In my opinion, the fight could have gone either way.

He killed several Jedi during the Purge.

Jedi Guardian wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:A decent Force-user can defend against and negate a Force Choke or similar technique in battle, perhaps even passively. That would only work if your opponent was already all but defeated.

Yes but there was this comic during the Clone Wars, I don't remember which exactly, but Dooku was Force Choking a Jedi he was fighting. I think that if you manage to catch them off guard then you can manage to screw around with there throat.

There was also that movie, Revenge of the Sith, where he does that too.

I recently stopped and read a SW comic in my local Waldenbooks, set after Return of the Sith, where Vader goes hunting for a group of Jedi and kills five of the seven (one falling to a traitor and one being killed by a hail of blaster bolts from Vader's troops).

Cos Dashit wrote:

Lukedanieljames wrote:Could mechanical vader actually beat any jedi in a sword fight?
Mace?
Yoda?
Obi-Wan (when he was young)

there are many more,


Could he beat any of them?

I do not think that Vader actually "defeated" Obi-wan in ANH. Obi-wan was just teaching Luke some kind of moral, or something. Watching the fight, Old Man Obi was checking every move the mechanical Sith threw at him, and Vader wasn't really holding back. In my opinion, the fight could have gone either way.

"your powers have grown weak old man"

Vader won... seriously, do you think Obi wouldn't have killed Vader had he been able? He may have been holding his own.. but was just delaying the inevitable.

There was also that movie, Revenge of the Sith, where he does that too.

I will admit, I had forgotten about that. Perhaps it is a viable strategy, in the right hands, at least. Still, the fact that Jedi/Sith duels typically don't immediately devolve into seeing who can choke who first suggest that such a strength is quite rare, or there are some effective counters.

PayBack wrote:

Cos Dashit wrote:

Lukedanieljames wrote:Could mechanical vader actually beat any jedi in a sword fight?
Mace?
Yoda?
Obi-Wan (when he was young)

there are many more,


Could he beat any of them?

I do not think that Vader actually "defeated" Obi-wan in ANH. Obi-wan was just teaching Luke some kind of moral, or something. Watching the fight, Old Man Obi was checking every move the mechanical Sith threw at him, and Vader wasn't really holding back. In my opinion, the fight could have gone either way.

"your powers have grown weak old man"

Vader won... seriously, do you think Obi wouldn't have killed Vader had he been able? He may have been holding his own.. but was just delaying the inevitable.

I wasn't saying that he could beat him, but that Vader didn't really "defeat" him either. And as for the quote, that was just some of his psychological intimidation that he is so good at (as stated previously in the thread). I'm saying the fight would have been much closer than it was, if Obi-wan would have really fought back.

Cos Dashit wrote:

PayBack wrote:

Cos Dashit wrote: I do not think that Vader actually "defeated" Obi-wan in ANH. Obi-wan was just teaching Luke some kind of moral, or something. Watching the fight, Old Man Obi was checking every move the mechanical Sith threw at him, and Vader wasn't really holding back. In my opinion, the fight could have gone either way.

"your powers have grown weak old man"

Vader won... seriously, do you think Obi wouldn't have killed Vader had he been able? He may have been holding his own.. but was just delaying the inevitable.

I wasn't saying that he could beat him, but that Vader didn't really "defeat" him either. And as for the quote, that was just some of his psychological intimidation that he is so good at (as stated previously in the thread). I'm saying the fight would have been much closer than it was, if Obi-wan would have really fought back.

Vader routinely duels practice droids and presumably he and Sidious' small army of Dark Side acolytes. As of ANH, when was the last time Obi dueled another Jedi, let alone a lightsaber wielding opponent of any kind even if just sparring? Meditation would stave off the atrophy of his force abilities but like a muscle, without any real test more threatening than a Krayt Dragon or a band of unruly Tuskens, Obi's combat skills are going to atrophy from his peak 20 years ago when he defeated a custom built Jedi killing machine and turned right around and, depending on who you ask, defeated the first or second most powerful Jedi who ever lived. He simply has no possible way to keep his reflexes that sharp living in hiding while Vader hunts Jedi for a living and trains ambitious and often unpredictable Dark Siders on the side.

SCVN 2812 wrote:
Vader routinely duels practice droids and presumably he and Sidious' small army of Dark Side acolytes. As of ANH, when was the last time Obi dueled another Jedi, let alone a lightsaber wielding opponent of any kind even if just sparring? Meditation would stave off the atrophy of his force abilities but like a muscle, without any real test more threatening than a Krayt Dragon or a band of unruly Tuskens, Obi's combat skills are going to atrophy from his peak 20 years ago when he defeated a custom built Jedi killing machine and turned right around and, depending on who you ask, defeated the first or second most powerful Jedi who ever lived. He simply has no possible way to keep his reflexes that sharp living in hiding while Vader hunts Jedi for a living and trains ambitious and often unpredictable Dark Siders on the side.

Luke should be in an even worse situation since as far as we know he had never practice dueled anyone and had certainly never defeated anyone in real light sabre combat before ROTJ. As for Kenobi's age, he was certainly far younger in ANH than Palpatine was and also younger at that time than Dooku was when he kicked Kenobi and Anakin's asses in AOTC. For that matter, Obiwan in ANH was probably no older than Mace was in ROTS.

And for the most part, he was worse. Most of the times he fought Vader, Vader would fall back and give ground whenever Luke lost his temper and released his anger. He did this because he wanted to convince Luke he was stronger and could win by embracing the Dark Side.

Vader only truly showed his skill against Luke when Luke wounded him on the shoulder.. Vader got angry, stopped toying with him and disarmed him (pun intended) easily.

As to the final fight where he defeats Vader, I find that hard to explain his victory except for the fact he was fighting for the life of his sister, giving him greater motivation.

Oh.. and the fact that deep down Vader didn't want to kill Luke.

FOG3 wrote:Do we actually have confirmation on him being the "Chosen One?" In Dark Lord I think around page 126 or so, the Jedi in their talking seem to reveal the prophecy, which goes something like:

In the dark times a Chosen One will be born to bring balance to the Force.

There's little argument that Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One. The prophecy was that the Chosen One would destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force.

FOG3 wrote:That seems to fit Luke more then Anakin. Anakin wasn't really born in dark times, Luke was.

He emerged in the dark age marked by the re-emergence of the Sith.

Luke, on the other hand, is most likely the prophecied Son of Suns.

PayBack wrote: As to the final fight where he defeats Vader, I find that hard to explain his victory except for the fact he was fighting for the life of his sister, giving him greater motivation.

It's not hard to explain. Luke channeled the Dark Side and it made him much more powerful. That was raw fury he was using at the end. Vader was quite simply overwhelmed. Luke went from challenging opponent to unstoppable killing machine in a matter of seconds and Vader simply could not compensate in time and his defenses were battered down.