StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:09am**

Interesting bit involving numbers in the Clone War, from the online supplement to Insider #86 (The Story of General Grievous: Lord of War, by Abel G. Pena):

With several
quintillions of droids by the close of the Clone Wars, the
number of robotic troops at his disposal played out in
Grievous' imagination like a barely fathomable string of
trinary code. Certainly, more than a billion of these battle
droids were vulture droids and tri-fighters, spacebound
and largely consigned to the Confederacy navy. But
without even including biological conscripts and militias
from Confederacy worlds (including the insuperable
Mandalorian Protectors who ravaged the Kamino cloning
facilities ), that still left billions of mechanized infantry,
tank droids, hailfire droids and other monstrous
Separatist automata to oppose the Republic's ground
forces.
Grievous was not only an unsympathetic being, but also
pragmatic. The general would never have worried about
Separatist casualties even if his troops were actually
alive -- they were not Kaleesh, after all -- unless their
extermination impaired his ability to wage war. But with
the Separatists' coffers overflowing with the booty of the
megacorporations responsible for the commerce of a
galaxy, Grievous found himself hardly ever having to
consider logistics. Though a master strategus, Grievous
adapted his tactics to his reality accordingly, throwing
battle droids at his enemy like spent and worthless rifle
shells at tokin crabs back on Kalee's shores. In the
Battle of Coruscant alone, hundreds of millions of battle
droids saw action on the ground and in space. Few
occasions truly called for the full dexterity of Grievous'
hybrid reptilian/mechanical intelligence after the Huk
Wars, but when he used it, such as in his orchestrated
release of the Loedorvian Brain Plague that murdered
tens of thousands in a single stroke, or his invasions of
the Core Worlds, the effects were devastating.

While the references to billions of spacebound droids and billions of groud droids are certainly loose-- several quintillion minus several billion is still several quintillion-- I'm pleased that this passage lends even more support to the massive scale of the war. It also knocks down arguments that the CIS was strapped for cash and infrastructure.

Comments?

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:14am**

Since when was the CIS strapped for cash? The size of the droid army hasn't been a problem, even that retarded article by Karen Traviss said quadrillions or quintillions of them existed. It's the size of the Grand Army of the Republic (as portrayed in some sources) that sucks.

EDIT: I just noticed how minimalistic the brain plague's effects were. In ROTS ICS, Saxton wrote that it killed every human in an entire sector. According to this article, only tens of thousands died.

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:25am**

Jim Raynor wrote:Since when was the CIS strapped for cash? The size of the droid army hasn't been a problem, even that retarded article by Karen Traviss said quadrillions or quintillions of them existed. It's the size of the Grand Army of the Republic (as portrayed in some sources) that sucks.

EDIT: I just noticed how minimalistic the brain plague's effects were. In ROTS ICS, Saxton wrote that it killed every human in an entire sector. According to this article, only tens of thousands died.

Only tens of thousands were murdered "in a single stroke." The quote can easily be interpreted to suggest much higher casualties overall.

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:40am**

Master of Ossus wrote:
Jim Raynor wrote:Since when was the CIS strapped for cash? The size of the droid army hasn't been a problem, even that retarded article by Karen Traviss said quadrillions or quintillions of them existed. It's the size of the Grand Army of the Republic (as portrayed in some sources) that sucks.

EDIT: I just noticed how minimalistic the brain plague's effects were. In ROTS ICS, Saxton wrote that it killed every human in an entire sector. According to this article, only tens of thousands died.
Only tens of thousands were murdered "in a single stroke." The quote can easily be interpreted to suggest much higher casualties overall.

Even so, realistically, the Clone Army should never have been able to even contend with the Driod Army. Now space battles, those are another story - the only chance the CIS had against a Venator was the Providence class, and the Venator's greatly outnumbered them.

Posted: **2006-02-17 02:13am**

000 wrote:Comments?

When I first heard it, I didn't believe that those quintillions of droids were realistic for the CIS with a population in the hundreds of quadrillions. Then, I read that they had covered planets with their automated self-replicating factories and grudgingly came to accept that they had such numbers. The Separatists have unlimited reserves, an army well beyond their ability to transport from the Fortress Worlds to the battlefields.

What I wonder is why the number of droid vehicles produced is such a comparatively tiny number (billion)? For spaceships I could accept the rarity of some much needed components, but for ground units I cannot understand why they would have just "billions".

P.S. Did the Mandalorians actually appear in Clone Wars? I had heard that they were part of the original plan, but got cut out of the series.

Posted: **2006-02-17 05:28am**

It's at the end of the wars, many more vehicles would have been lost in battles before that.

Did the Mandalorians actually appear in Clone Wars? I had heard that they were part of the original plan, but got cut out of the series.

Technically speaking, the entire Clone Army stem from Mandalorians.

CW EU sources also added the small group of 212 supercommandos mentioned in the old Marvel comics, conducting covert operations for the Confederacy.

Posted: **2006-02-17 05:46am**

Think about all the TF-donuts needed to carry those billions of Vulture- and Tri-Droids around.

Posted: **2006-02-17 07:25am**

if we assume only Lucrehulks, then they would be in their millions.

25 000 Imperators suddenly don't seem that big, and they're almost a 1/3 of the length of a Lucrehulk!

Suck it, minimalists.

Posted: **2006-02-17 07:30am**

VT-16 wrote:if we assume only Lucrehulks, then they would be in their millions.

25 000 Imperators suddenly don't seem that big, and they're almost a 1/3 of the length of a Lucrehulk!

Suck it, minimalists.

We can't assume that because of the massive hanger deck of the Invisible Hand. That ship was practically a flying hanger. True the TF doughnuts must have had much larger capacity but in relation to its size the Invisible Hand could carry much more stuff than an ISD ever did.

Posted: **2006-02-17 07:33am**

Yes, I knew the other ships in the Confederacy fleet would limit their number, but still, that's alot of carriers.

Posted: **2006-02-17 08:04am**

the only chance the CIS had against a Venator was the Providence class

You're kidding, right? A Venator is no match for a Lucrehulk, all else being equal. The Venator is a far better warship for its size, but the Lucrehulk is drastically bigger.

Posted: **2006-02-17 08:47am**

Isolder74 wrote:
VT-16 wrote:if we assume only Lucrehulks, then they would be in their millions.

25 000 Imperators suddenly don't seem that big, and they're almost a 1/3 of the length of a Lucrehulk!

Suck it, minimalists.

We can't assume that because of the massive hanger deck of the Invisible Hand. That ship was practically a flying hanger. True the TF doughnuts must have had much larger capacity but in relation to its size the Invisible Hand could carry much more stuff than an ISD ever did.

Yes, but the IH was modified to serve as a carrier. We don't know how many fighters and unmodified Providence-Class-destroyer would have.

Posted: **2006-02-17 12:05pm**

While we're discussing Lucrehulks, the Galactic Gallery on Hyperspace recently featured this interesting image...

Mods, since the above is a hyperspace image (albeit one of hundreds), feel free to delete the link if I'm violating any rules...

Posted: **2006-02-17 12:32pm**

Holy cow!

That's some upgrade! They even marked the different types with colored dots and everything!

Er, I mean, shame on you for *rightclick* showing that here!

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:00pm**

Anguirus wrote:
the only chance the CIS had against a Venator was the Providence class
You're kidding, right? A Venator is no match for a Lucrehulk, all else being equal. The Venator is a far better warship for its size, but the Lucrehulk is drastically bigger.

I wasn't kidding at all. Just because something is bigger DOES NOT make it better. The Lucrehulk's weapons are so spread out over it's surface, it wouldn't be able to fire enough in a concentrated manner. If you can point to one source saying that the Lucrehulk is better than the Venator, I'd be more than happy to retract my argument.

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:03pm**

Looking at the picture above, I'd say at least the CW-era Lucrehulks had more than enough guns to tangle with one Venator.

Posted: **2006-02-17 01:46pm**

Finally! Solid proof that the TF BB's had their weapon systems upgraded. I had posted screencaps back when the DVD's came out that suggested the idea but I still wasted sure how solid my theory was.

Posted: **2006-02-17 03:33pm**

I believe the pre-war armament was at least 24 quadguns.

This is many times more than that, and with two other types of cannons as well.

Posted: **2006-02-17 03:52pm**

42 Quadguns according to TPM:ICS, but - i think i was Ender - explained, that there were a lot of other guns in positions different from those shown in the ICS.

And the ROTS:ICS in its entry of the Venator states, that it needs "flottilas of Venators to fight TF-battleships".

Posted: **2006-02-17 03:54pm**

VT-16 wrote:I believe the pre-war armament was at least 24 quadguns.

ICS:TMP gives them 42 quadlaser "emplacements" with each emplacement being three.

Posted: **2006-02-17 05:33pm**

Wow, that's an insane number of guns on a Lucrehulk! What's the total count?

Manus Celer Dei wrote:ICS:TMP gives them 42 quadlaser "emplacements" with each emplacement being three.

A quad laser is a turret with four laser cannons on it, like on the Millenium Falcon, right? So each emplacement has three turrets, for a total of twelve barrels?

Thinking back, the ending of the Assault Ship campaign in Republic Commando is pretty ridiculous; two Acclamators destroying a Lucrehulk?!

Posted: **2006-02-17 05:41pm**

They must have "passed through the shields" or whatever, like Thrawn did in Outbound Flight.

Posted: **2006-02-17 06:08pm**

I make it out to be roughly 400 quadguns on the top of the Lucrehulk (counted the upper half only, multiplied by 2 to get the other side's guns added in), 284 long guns, and 29 heavy guns. The quadguns may be off by 2 or 4 either direction, but I'm fairly certain on the long guns, and definite on the heavies.

Assuming the bottom has the same armament, this would mean 800 quads, 568 longs, and 58 heavies. That's vaguely frightening. If we assume rough similarity in cannon size to future Imperial ships, that'd mean the Lucre has 6 fewer heavies than an ISD, but the quads may be the same as the "lateral quad-laser batteries" mounted on the ISD (two?) and the longs similar to the "axial defence turrets", giving the Lucre a far superior medium battery (800 and 568 versus 2 definite and 9 definite).

Posted: **2006-02-17 06:25pm**

How can the same organisation that produces such armament estimates also produce such minimalist crap? Bah.

Posted: **2006-02-17 06:28pm**

This is what I got for the whole ship:

58 Heavy gun emplacements
~808 Quad gun emplacements
~560 Long gun emplacements

I wonder how the Lucrehulk's heavy guns compare to the Venator's heavy guns.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Droid numbers from Insider #86 (Online)

Droid numbers from Insider #86 (Online)

Re: Droid numbers from Insider #86 (Online)