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Q: In Starships of the Galaxy, the Executor (Vader's Super Star Destroyer) is listed with a length of 8,000 meters, but in the text it's described as being eight times the length of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which would be 12,800 meters. Which is correct?

A: Actually, they're both wrong because the official size of Super Star Destroyers has been revised. Thus, here's some official errata: The Executor is 19,000 meters long, as are all Super Star Destroyers of the same class.

From http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=st ... 060309jc84

Not a surprise, obviously, but I figured some would appreciate such a blatant statement... plus they explicitly say all SSDs of the same class.

Thanks to Darth Culator at TFN for the tip.

Old news. Was confirmed on the official site months ago.

In a clandestine way via replacing the old figure. This is an official, blatantly worded retraction of the old length. It's impossible to argue with now.

Plus, they go out of their way to say that all the other SSDs of the Ex's class are the same length-- completely refuting arguments from certain parties that the Ex and Lucy were the only two SSDs of the 19000 m length.

Like I said, it's obviously old news, but it's the first explicit correction of old source material we've gotten.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Old news. Was confirmed on the official site months ago.

Of course it's old news. But like 000 said, this is significant because it's a blatant retraction of the old length. There's a lot of morons out there who have done everything they could to argue that the Executor was some kind of unique freak, and that the Super-class is distinct from the Executor-class.

Actually, doesn't this preclude 'super' being used as a class name, too?

"Super Star Destroyers of the same class." makes it sound like a general grouping term, like Saxton suggests.

I think such things also strengthen other arguments too such as the size of the DS II.

"we were right about this, just as we were right about that"

No, it's 'contraversial'.

If there's one thing I'll never understand - stranger than people actually reading the EU, which is pretty fucking strange to me - is people thinking the contents of their shit novels or lameass RPG override what's seen onscreen. What manner of man is this? Not only do they want to *downgrade* things, they do it based on some proprietary 'I am a SW:EU fan and I will defend it from all threats forgein and domestic' bullshit.

In short, I hate people who make something their fucking football team. Yes, even football teams.

If there's one thing I'll never understand - stranger than people actually reading the EU, which is pretty fucking strange to me - is people thinking the contents of their shit novels or lameass RPG override what's seen onscreen. What manner of man is this? Not only do they want to *downgrade* things, they do it based on some proprietary 'I am a SW:EU fan and I will defend it from all threats forgein and domestic' bullshit.

I think it may simply be because some people, for a reason I cannot comprehend, have a simple aversion to actually trying to quantify anything objective they see in movies, and thus accept a listed source, no matter what it might be from, unquestionably. You might think that simply looking at the screen would contradict the ridiculously low figures that get thrown out, but really, without carefully scaling something like the Death Star or Executor, all one gets is 'its big'. That impression would actually make me feel more inclined with the larger of the numbers, but I guess it just doesn't work that way for some people...

And I'm glad you seem to be at least trying to avoid insulting the entire EU-reading populace all at once. Not everyone who likes the novels (a past time which, oddly enough, is not so strange to me) is fanatical in regards to them.

Ryushikaze wrote:Actually, doesn't this preclude 'super' being used as a class name, too?

"Super Star Destroyers of the same class." makes it sound like a general grouping term, like Saxton suggests.

Actually, Pablo Hidalgo of all people already did that for us (probably unknowingly):

Link

The last generation of Super-class Star Destroyers, including the Eclipse and the Sovereign featured gravity well generators.

Based on this, I've been able to argue that "Super-class" isn't a real class name, but a general term for at least 3 starship classes.

What the fuck?

Wizards wrote:Gary M. Sarli is a freelance writer and editor whose credits include Ultimate Adversaries (Star Wars), Monster Manual III, Races of the Wild, and Heroes of Battle (Dungeons & Dragons). He also moderates on the Wizards.COMmunity message boards as WizO the Hutt, cheerfully feeding Code of Conduct violators to the Sarlacc. Gary still works as a staff member for SWRPGNetwork, three-time ENnie Award winner in the Best Fan Website category and host of the Star Wars RPG Frequently Asked Questions.

Erm- so? You knew he was a freelance writer, right? Of course, he wrote that silly and erroneous attempt to argue the Death Star wasn't really 900km because of ridiculous made-up-on-the-spot- reasons like "the images that show that Endor is 11 times larger than the Death Star are distorted because the fleet just exited from hyperspace" and other assorted sillyness in an attempt to "prove" that Endor would not have been annihilated by the Death Star's destruction- all this demonstrates is that he respects the EU, which there's no indication he didn't. Which of course means he should retract his claims about the size of the Death Star based on the release of the OT:ITW, incidentally

Who?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Who?

Just some freelance writer guy who wrote this long and erroneous .pdf in an attempt to prove that Dr. Saxton's argument re: the Endor Holocaust was wrong.

Noble Ire wrote:I think it may simply be because some people, for a reason I cannot comprehend, have a simple aversion to actually trying to quantify anything objective they see in movies, and thus accept a listed source, no matter what it might be from, unquestionably. You might think that simply looking at the screen would contradict the ridiculously low figures that get thrown out, but really, without carefully scaling something like the Death Star or Executor, all one gets is 'its big'. That impression would actually make me feel more inclined with the larger of the numbers, but I guess it just doesn't work that way for some people...

The hardest part for me to understand is that these people are fanboys. I've interacted with fanboys a lot over the years, and I don't understand why they would ever want to settle for lower *anything* numbers. I figure they think their pulp novels are *the truth* or something.

Noble Ire wrote:And I'm glad you seem to be at least trying to avoid insulting the entire EU-reading populace all at once. Not everyone who likes the novels (a past time which, oddly enough, is not so strange to me) is fanatical in regards to them.

Hey don't get me wrong - pretty much everything I've ever read with regards to the EU has been unmitigated garbage. But I am a horribly negative person, so maybe it's just me... not every novel can be a Watchmen after all.

Master of Ossus wrote:What the fuck?

Wizards wrote:Gary M. Sarli is a freelance writer and editor whose credits include Ultimate Adversaries (Star Wars), Monster Manual III, Races of the Wild, and Heroes of Battle (Dungeons & Dragons). He also moderates on the Wizards.COMmunity message boards as WizO the Hutt, cheerfully feeding Code of Conduct violators to the Sarlacc. Gary still works as a staff member for SWRPGNetwork, three-time ENnie Award winner in the Best Fan Website category and host of the Star Wars RPG Frequently Asked Questions.

That was my initial reaction too, based on this:
+http://conversions.swrpgnetwork.com/ent ... s=&id=1846

What's important about this announcement is that it officially seals the fact that Executors are 19km long, with RPGers, who are still clinging to the old WEG figure which translated over to WOTC. No more arguments among them.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Who?

+http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/files/endor ... 040810.pdf

Enjoy.

I skimmed it. I'm really surprised that someone actually wrote such a lengthy attempted refutation of the Endor Holocaust page.

Is his problem bad calcs? It wouldn't surprise me...it's a freelance writer vs. an astrophysicist.

Anguirus wrote: Is his problem bad calcs? It wouldn't surprise me...it's a freelance writer vs. an astrophysicist.

Among other things, like his silly "hyperspace distortion" rebuttal to the images of the Death Star that clearly show it cannot possibly be 160km if Endor is to retain a breathable atmosphere. Of course, the size of the Death Star isn't the primary issue, even a 160km battle station would be more than enough to cause an extinction-like event. As it is, the 900km figure has since been established in the EU, so this part of his argument is long-defunct even by his own standards (ie. ignoring the comments of the guys who made the thing for the movie).

As it is, he relies on wormholes, black holes, and assorted silly ness like "the glove of Vader" (because you know, Darth Vader's glove was magic!) to get by.

000 wrote:Q: In Starships of the Galaxy, the Executor (Vader's Super Star Destroyer) is listed with a length of 8,000 meters, but in the text it's described as being eight times the length of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which would be 12,800 meters. Which is correct?

Can we use this as argument for a seperate SD-class called "Imperial", which is thousand meters long, while the 1,600 meter long ship is the "Imperator"?

Since I keep seeing 1600 m and 1609 m being mentioned left and right, maybe that could be the answer? >P

I also remember seeing the ISD model from ANH redressed to look similar to the new models in ESB. Is this touched upon anywhere? In other words, the ANH model is the Imperator, while the ESB and ROTJ models are Imperial Mk. I and Mk. II. :P

Yeah, using "The Glove of Darth Vader" in your argument is asking for trouble...

Anyway, my personal opinion on the matter is that the DSII explosion would certainly have wrecked Endor...but this is impossible to reconcile with later EU. So I figure that the ground team just threw up the planetary shield again, preventing impacts and allowing Rebel forces to "clean off" the particulate matter resting on the shield after the debris was annihilated.

The object destroyed on Endor's surface is the shield projector for the Death Star. I don't think it's the shield generator itself because it looks nothing whatsoever like the Hoth generator. Blowing just the projector leaves an intact planetary shield; switch it on and you'd still get ecological damage but it might be survivable.

If the hypothetical planetary shield was up, then why would there be ecological damage?

Anguirus wrote:I don't think it's the shield generator itself because it looks nothing whatsoever like the Hoth generator.

That was the power generator.

Regardless of what kind of generator was what, the one on Hoth only had to protect the surface, the one on Endor had to protect the DSII. It would seem to me that protecting a large orbiting object would necessitate a different sort of generator from one designed only to protect the surface.

Ah, I see. That makes sense.