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And just for the fun of it, I recently noticed this shield impact when watching RotJ:

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Several frames later, the flash at/near its peak:

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Oh, and why not, from TESB, a modified ISD-I escorting the Executor (you can clearly make out the Devastator style main guns and the axial defense turrets, as opposed to the Avenger type, as well as the differences in bridge tower detail.

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Interesting. That's quite a large blaster rifle (perhaps a repeating blaster of some kind?), and it doesn't look like anything seen here
http://www.partsofsw.com/item.htm
does it?

Cykeisme wrote:Interesting. That's quite a large blaster rifle (perhaps a repeating blaster of some kind?), and it doesn't look like anything seen here
http://www.partsofsw.com/item.htm
does it?

I think the BlasTech A280 modification seen here is it... note the close-up of the scope.

I guess what must've happened is that this particular soldier grabbed one of the captured Rebel weapons when everything went to hell. We see a Rebel commando with an E-11, maybe they swapped

Oops, good eye, Elheru Aran.. the second picture of the A280 from the prop site shows almost the same profile as the picture from Endor. No idea how I missed that.

Anyway, it shows just how chaotic it was down there!

Not quite the same thing here, but I just came up with an idea that probably isn't worthy of a new topic, but I just hadn't considered before.
It concerns the way in which the Imperial troops on Endor fought somewhat pathetically; no matter whether the tide was turning before the AT-ST was nicked, heavily armed troops being taken out with stones and giving very little effective return fire is not very like 'a legion of the emperors best troops'.
So, perhaps these troops were an honour guard, similar to the old Soviet army regiment that used to be stationed close to the Kremlin, which was equipped with the best equipment, but never saw any action IIRC. Highly trained and well equipped, but completely inexperienced? Could the 'elite' troops on Endor be an honour guard, drilled in the kind of battles seen on, say, Geonosis, but completely inexperienced, which combined to result in the poor performance seen on screen?

It concerns the way in which the Imperial troops on Endor fought somewhat pathetically; no matter whether the tide was turning before the AT-ST was nicked, heavily armed troops being taken out with stones and giving very little effective return fire is not very like 'a legion of the emperors best troops'.

The Empire was winning handily until Chewie hijaked an AT-ST. THe Ewoks were in full retreat until they rallied behind Chewbacca.

Had Chewbacca not 'jacked that walker, the Ewoks would have at most destroyed two AT-STs and then been mercilessly slaughtered. That's not to say the battle would have been lost, we're not sure about the status of the Rebel Commandoes, they might have been able to take-out the Imperials as they chased the Ewoks trough the forest. Come to think of it, many peopel forget about the veteran Commandoes who are presumably veterans of many raids as well as hit 'n run attacks on Imperial installations. The movie does not show them in action, but realistically they also vital in winning the ground side of the Battle of Endor.

Lazarus wrote:Not quite the same thing here, but I just came up with an idea that probably isn't worthy of a new topic, but I just hadn't considered before.
It concerns the way in which the Imperial troops on Endor fought somewhat pathetically; no matter whether the tide was turning before the AT-ST was nicked, heavily armed troops being taken out with stones and giving very little effective return fire is not very like 'a legion of the emperors best troops'.
So, perhaps these troops were an honour guard, similar to the old Soviet army regiment that used to be stationed close to the Kremlin, which was equipped with the best equipment, but never saw any action IIRC. Highly trained and well equipped, but completely inexperienced? Could the 'elite' troops on Endor be an honour guard, drilled in the kind of battles seen on, say, Geonosis, but completely inexperienced, which combined to result in the poor performance seen on screen?

Okay. Honour guard. For whom?

And don't say Vader; there were stormtroopers on Endor before he came down.

You people aren't still harping on that whole "an entire legion.." thing, are you?

There were a few hundred troops, some speeder bikes and some AT-STs involved in a battle over a rear bunker! What makes you think that was it? It was the fucking back door!

They had AT-ATs on the moon, for Christ sake. It's not to hard to imagine that most of the force was on the other side of the base, while a relatively small detachment was sent to ambush what they thought was a tiny commando team.

Exactly. They sent the equivilant of a Company of troops as well as at least four AT-STs to apprehend a dozen Rebel operatives. That's extreme overkill for a simple detainment job. If anything the Empire was overly cautious at the Endor Bunker back door. They were jumped by hundreds of Ewoks (which they were told were "harmless non-belligerents") and managed to hold quite well. The Ewoks had no significant victories until an AT-ST was captured. They were retreating into the woods and had lost until they rallied behind Chewbacca.

The Original Nex wrote:They sent the equivilant of a Company of troops as well as at least four AT-STs to apprehend a dozen Rebel operatives.

The novellization suggest (but does not say outright) that Chewbacca destroyed at least three AT-STs with the one he 'jacked. That would mean half-a-dozen scout walkers guarding the back door.

Let's see if I can find the quote... Sorry, Mr. Poe's PDD part of the database doesn't have RotJ. Oh wait, Wong's canon database!

RotJ Novelization wrote:Chewie climbed down inside. It took him half a minute to master the controls- Imperial technology was pretty standardized. And then, methodically, one by one, he began approaching the other, unsuspecting, Imperial Walkers, and blasting them to dust. Most had no idea what was happening. As the giant war-machines began going up in flames, the Ewoks were reinspired. They rallied behind Chewie's Walker. The Wookie was turning the tide of battle.

"One by one" would tend to suggest at least three. If he had only destroyed one or two a different choice of words would have been more likely.

Adrian Laguna wrote:Had Chewbacca not 'jacked that walker, the Ewoks would have at most destroyed two AT-STs and then been mercilessly slaughtered. That's not to say the battle would have been lost, we're not sure about the status of the Rebel Commandoes, they might have been able to take-out the Imperials as they chased the Ewoks trough the forest. Come to think of it, many peopel forget about the veteran Commandoes who are presumably veterans of many raids as well as hit 'n run attacks on Imperial installations. The movie does not show them in action, but realistically they also vital in winning the ground side of the Battle of Endor.

We got to see those other rebel commandos a while ago from filmed photage. They were captured by the stormtroopers just like the rest, but when the Ewoks ambushed the gathering, we should at least assume that they participated in the erupting battle.

The movie does not show them in action, but realistically they also vital in winning the ground side of the Battle of Endor.

We do see a few take up positions and get some good shots off at the beginning. One takes cover from heavy fire on the bunker roof. Another is seen towards the end of the battle dead--he had tried to take cover in an alcove to the right of Our Heroes at the main entrance.

The rest probably ran into the forest with everyone else. Trained commandos in camouflage with hundreds of distracted enemies to kill? They prrobably exacted quite a toll indeed.

Sorry, I haven't read the novelization, I once read the Phantom Menace one and understandably left it at that. If that gives a different POV than fair enough, and I was suggesting that the troops Palpatine was talking about were a unit of his own, not the Imperial Guards, just a..well, honour guard, can't think how else to describe them.

just a..well, honour guard, can't think how else to describe them.

Wouldn't that be the Coruscant Guard? (The forces evolving from his shock troopers, seen in ROTS). They've got red armor with some sort of horned helmet by the time of the OT, so it can't have been them...

Personally, whenever I've watched RotJ, I'v seen the Ewok battle and thought 'The stormies are highly trained, well equipped soldiers with no qualms about shooting teddu bears with sticks and rocks, so why are they losing?'. As far as I'm aware only one ewok is ever shown being killed, and god knows how many Imperials are taken out by sticks and rocks. I'm not attempting to challenge your interpretation, but for me and many others I've spoken to, the Imperials are for some reason shown to be losing throughout the battle to cuddly toys. There is no rapid fire slaughtering of Ewoks, and indeed no effective return fire whatsoever; I can understand some chaos at the beginning, but as trained troops they should have swiftly taken control and wiped the Ewoks out. Just my opinion, and I'm just trying to think of some reason for this obviously pathetic performance by supposedly elite troops.

So when the music changed and got all somber and ewoks were fleeing all over the place that didn't give enough clues that the battle turned?

So if the battle was turning why weren't any Ewoks being slaughtered? They were running around because that seemed to be their tactics: run around and throw rocks and sticks.

Lazarus wrote:So if the battle was turning why weren't any Ewoks being slaughtered? They were running around because that seemed to be their tactics: run around and throw rocks and sticks.

they were, in univerve bias can be used explain why not all of ewok casualities were shown (the movies are truth, but not the whole truth) and it was clear the ewoks scored only few casualities that where in the end irrelevant (before Chewie captured the AT-ST)

As far as I'm aware only one ewok is ever shown being killed

Widescreen is you friend. ;P

You can see several more get hit towards the side on the screen in certain scenes, especially by the AT-STs. Some also get picked up and thrown to the side by troopers in hand-to-hand combat. Then there's the artillery batteries that get blown up and the ewoks operating them naturally run like hell.

The rest is basically explained by "focus on the good guys". Most stormtrooper deaths (or bludgeons) are caused by ambushes, and that's what gets focused on. There is also a cool attack (imo) where you see one ewok to the side of the screen hit a stormtrooper with a club so hard, he gets thrown back before hitting the ground. Those furballs are pretty strong.

Ah right, I don't have a widescreen, apparently it wouldn't go with our lounge, my apologies