StarDestroyer.Net BBS

• is the Old Republic (Rise of Empire era) or New Republic (Vong Invasion) more corrupt?

i think the Old Republic in its waining days was more corrupt.

Sorry, but the NR is more corrupt. The Old Republic was mired in red-tape and procedure, so it was slow. Its legal processes must also have been slow, and its laws antiquated. The NR is more corrupt. It has about fifty Senators who I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw a Hutt, and many of them are openly aiding their invaders. At least Palpatine had to try and keep it a secret.

BTW, Borssk Fey'lya.

No doubt, the NR is more corrupt. The Old Republic wasn't very good either, but it was not nearly as rotten and corrupt as the NR, and now the strange thing is the OR existed for about 25000 years and only became corrupt towards the very end but the NR is rotten and corrupt from the very beginning on!

Moot question. The later Old Republic was obviously more bureaucratic, but the New Republic is far more fragile. The sheer bureaucracy of the Old Republic makes a good fertilizer for corruption, but the fragility of the New Republic could be a result of corruption. I'm not that much into the Extended Universe, so please take my statements with a grain of salt.

You're absolutely correct on this issue. The NR is extremely fragile, and that's a result of both corruption and incompetent political and military leadership (scraping the Executor class)!

It's not the government itself that's corrupt, but the people running it. The Old Republic didn't have many of the NR's problems until 25,000 years after it's formation.

If you look at the SW galaxy what it's like now it would really have been better for everyone if the Empire had won.

now the strange thing is the OR existed for about 25000 years

250,000 years?

Heck no the OR lasted just 1000 years if Obi-Won is to be belived when he says it on no more than four occasions and as the EU holds up

25,000 Years ago was when Xim The Despot fell at the Third Battle of Vorg(Right planet? can't remeber) and there is no mention of goverments up untill the OR comes along and gives everyone a thousand years of peace then the Empire who manageds around five to ten then the rebillion happens then the rebellion wins, The Empire lasted less than twenty years

Now we have the NR and its corrupt senators

No he says more than 1000 (thousand) generations that is 25,000 years
(twenty-five thousand years).
It was shortly before the creation of the OR when the hyperdrive was invented on Corelia (Alderaan, Corelia and several other systems had been settled with sleeper ships 27000 years ago).
Xim's rule was shortly before the invention of hyperdrive and the foundation of he Galactic Republic.

Well if your right I'll poke myself in the eye if your wrong I'll contiue as normal

(off to watch ANH)

Zim had hyperdrives. How else would he have built an empire?

Slower FTL drives?

Simple
Warp Drives

Remeber he was pure Warp based at that point mining Ore that are praticuly worthless today yet where very vaubalbe back then

Who knows maybe they where using Warp drives back then

Now Bean did you look it up? the script says 1000 generations

No acutal I can't find the tapes but I'll take your word for it till then
*Pokes self in eye
Oww

am pretty sure it's 1k generations. . .tho palpatine says 1k yrs in movie two.

I'd say the New Republic is more incompetent than corrupt. The Old Republic was rotten from top to bottom. The NR on the other hand had it's problems on the lower levels but wasn't anywhere near the breakdown of order that the OR that was experiencing. Both had massive problem with corruption and selfishness (not the same thing) at the top. What killed both was the inability to enforce law and order. That's the key to any stable society. Law with out the will and force to back it up is no more than scrawls on a page.

well then, onto which is true....1000 years or 1000 generations. Maybe since jedi are taken from their parents, not bred from jedi, one year of jedi is considered a generation?

the old republic cant be more than 4000 years if anything. 4000 years before a New Hope Hyperspace Lanes were still being found and the Republic was built upon the hyperspace lanes. the only government at that time that is written about is Empress Tetas unified planets and systems.

I'd say the New Republic is more incompetent than corrupt. The Old Republic was rotten from top to bottom. The NR on the other hand had it's problems on the lower levels but wasn't anywhere near the breakdown of order that the OR that was experiencing. Both had massive problem with corruption and selfishness (not the same thing) at the top. What killed both was the inability to enforce law and order. That's the key to any stable society. Law with out the will and force to back it up is no more than scrawls on a page.

the OR had after all at least 1000 years to grow corrupt from a positon of military strength, the NR in contrast right from the start had to deal with military infeority and lack of support sturcture, the corruption merely added to the existing problems

you are certainly right on the enforcement of laws, the League of nations passed all those fancy laws to prevent aggersion but as soon as it was put to a real test, there were just that fancy words.

I still feel the NR had basicly to deal with all the of the OR's problems and had the added burden of rebuilding the galaxy from a very destructive civil war without the heavy use of lethal force.

How do we know that the corruption of the OR was not something that Palpatine was just spitting out. Of course, the OR's system of legislation would have been necessarily slow, but with the exception of Palpatine himself I see little evidence that the OR is more corrupt than, say, the current British Parliament or the Israeli Knesset or the American Congress. I think it possible that Palpatine was using "corruption" as an excuse to gather power, but that it was really not the devastating problem he made it out to be.

BTW, Councilor Pwoe was clearly corrupt. Borssk Fey'lya was clearly corrupt. The Senate is CLEARLY corrupt. Their strategic council was CLEARLY corrupt. Many of the powerful worlds are clearly corrupt and many of the senators from such worlds actively aided the Yuuzhan Vong. That is far worse than taking bribes. That is treason. The NR is more corrupt than the OR.

Borssk Fey'lya was clearly corrupt

Not corrupt, Self Servering, He truely was looking out for Bothans, first and formost, If you notice his failed attempt at getting ahold of the Fleet Command Postion he gives up and takes a much longer term view of things(He realy mellows after this becoming much more , mmm how do I put it.. Tame? prehaps thats the best way of saying it)

I said that Fey'ly was corrupt primarily because of the way that he handled the Caamas Document situation. I think that he clearly has goals other than the good of the NR as his primary objectives, and I consider that corruption at the highest level. I also think he was corrupt in other areas (Heir to the Empire, etc.), but I agree with you that he mellowed out as he became more common in the books. His last act in SbS was nearly heroic, if it wasn't so stupid. I can see how you would see Borsk, though, as being more short-sighted and less corrupt than the others. I can see how that would be a controversial corruptician (which, BTW, is not a word).

I think the other points I made, and the other examples I used, are pretty much irrefutable from the evidence that we have. I still believe that the NR is corrupt, and I still think that Fey'lya was corrupt, but I can see how you would see him as being a character with more integrity than I see him with.

In a sense he's the perfect Senator for his world, His only goal is the preseveation of his species and to get as much power as possible(Agian helping them) of course if we have all the Senators like him, We'd have endless civil war, Lucky thats not the case

Again, I agree. I liked Borsk. I could easily see his motives, and he seemed somewhat developed. I still think he was corrupt, though.