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I was wondering about the actual caost of building a battledrois as compared to the actual cost of producing a stormtrooper in terms of credits if it was ever mentioned. Both have their advantages but this it to remain a purely monrtary and hardware discussion.

Admiral Johnason wrote:I was wondering about the actual caost of building a battledrois as compared to the actual cost of producing a stormtrooper in terms of credits if it was ever mentioned. Both have their advantages but this it to remain a purely monrtary and hardware discussion.

Battledroids don't require years of training, and never need to eat, bathe, or relax, relying instead upon their built-in hardware and the occasional recharge. Soldier for soldier, droids are vastly less expensive than any half competenant organic, even if they themselves may cost initially more than a clone or regular conscript.

Noble Ire wrote:

Admiral Johnason wrote:I was wondering about the actual caost of building a battledrois as compared to the actual cost of producing a stormtrooper in terms of credits if it was ever mentioned. Both have their advantages but this it to remain a purely monrtary and hardware discussion.

Battledroids don't require years of training, and never need to eat, bathe, or relax, relying instead upon their built-in hardware and the occasional recharge. Soldier for soldier, droids are vastly less expensive than any half competenant organic, even if they themselves may cost initially more than a clone or regular conscript.

I am looking for a dollar amount for initial produstion, training, and armement only. I justed wanted to get some idea of the cost of assembling an army in the SW universe. I was only wondering is there was an actual set cost for production.

I am looking for a dollar amount only. I justed wanted to get some idea of the cost of assembling an army in the SW universe. I was only wondering is there was an actual set cost for production.

Well, the only relevant quote I can (vaguely) remember is from one of the WEG books, which placed the full training, arming, and supplying of a single stormtrooper at around two million credits, althogh I'm not 100% sure on that number.

On the matter of training, in AOTC we see droid units fresh from the factory go right into battle. So all the combat expertise they need is programmed in as they're manufactured which would cut costs considerably.

Droids are cheaper in my mind


Droid:

*self replicate production duties at a certain point
*training is just a computer upload program away
*Housing can be in a steel case in darkness for months
*No food / water

Okay so we have around 2,000,000 credits for a clone-trooper and an unknown but probably lower price for at least a standard battle droid.

Now comes the question of greater improtance, which one gives you more bang for your buck. I would probably go with teh clone trooper, they tend to live longer and have a greater degree of suriviability and adaptability on the battlefeild (ATOC and both Clone Wars series show well armed and well trained troopers overcoming their droid couterparts in most engagements where numbers were equal or short of being massively outnumbered.) Of course the tactics involved are different and it could also just be a question of leadership due to the programing in the commander battle droids and of the Jedi trainning regimne.

Now comes the question of greater improtance, which one gives you more bang for your buck. I would probably go with teh clone trooper, they tend to live longer and have a greater degree of suriviability and adaptability on the battlefeild (ATOC and both Clone Wars series show well armed and well trained troopers overcoming their droid couterparts in most engagements where numbers were equal or short of being massively outnumbered.) Of course the tactics involved are different and it could also just be a question of leadership due to the programing in the commander battle droids and of the Jedi trainning regimne.

If you're refering to your bog-standard TF battle droid, I would say that a Clone Trooper is indeed far superior, due to superior mobility, obviously greater and more intuitive intellegence, and perhaps even durability. However, with Super Battle Droids, the difference in combat ability narrows, with some sources placing SBDs as just as effective, if not more so, as clones on the battlefield. At that point, the compartive value of each comes down to their usage; clones are far more versatile, and can be used for more than just open war, but if you simply want a powerful military force, you're better off with the droids, especially since their easier to create and probably cheaper to boot.

Noble Ire wrote:

Now comes the question of greater improtance, which one gives you more bang for your buck. I would probably go with teh clone trooper, they tend to live longer and have a greater degree of suriviability and adaptability on the battlefeild (ATOC and both Clone Wars series show well armed and well trained troopers overcoming their droid couterparts in most engagements where numbers were equal or short of being massively outnumbered.) Of course the tactics involved are different and it could also just be a question of leadership due to the programing in the commander battle droids and of the Jedi trainning regimne.

If you're refering to your bog-standard TF battle droid, I would say that a Clone Trooper is indeed far superior, due to superior mobility, obviously greater and more intuitive intellegence, and perhaps even durability. However, with Super Battle Droids, the difference in combat ability narrows, with some sources placing SBDs as just as effective, if not more so, as clones on the battlefield. At that point, the compartive value of each comes down to their usage; clones are far more versatile, and can be used for more than just open war, but if you simply want a powerful military force, you're better off with the droids, especially since their easier to create and probably cheaper to boot.

I am going to agree with your assessment. The SBD is on par with the troopers and is probaly cheaper.

I would have thought that the 2 million credit cost of a stormtrooper would have bought a few hundred standad battle droids, which could simply overwhelm the stormtrooper through weight of numbers.

According to wiki a Tie Fighter cost 60,000 credits but i have seen sources that put the cost of these ships much lower (remember Luke thought he could by a ship on tatooine for 10,000 and this would have had to have a hyperspace drive) I assume that a basic battle droid is far simpler in terms of construction & therefore cost than a top of the range star fighter

Also an interesting point is what clones/stormtroopers would require in terms of pension payments?

Considering the rate that clones age, and the survivability skills that stormies show, I don't think that retirment pensions are of any concern to the Empire. As far as initial cost goes, I would imagine that the greatest cost of a battle droid would come from the design and manufacture of the equipment. After that, I should guess that the cost of raw materials and energy required to churn out droids probably drops to some ridiculously low number. With a clone or recruit, you have both the inital cost of building or buying training equipment, then the costs associated with transportation, shelter, feeding, equipping, paying, etc. Most of these are rendered moot with a droid.

the survivability skills that stormies show, I don't think that retirment pensions are of any concern to the Empire

lol!

If you look at the facility on Geonosis that single production line was producing over 6 droids a seconds, from scratch not simply assembling them from prefabricated parts!
If production methods are this advanced then the actual cost of a droid would simply be determined from the cost of
A) the cost of running the plant in terms of energy, which shouldnt be very high at all from Star Wars energy production methods
B) the cost of metal ore, which shouldnt be very high either as Geonosis has a very large asteroid field for local material extraction (which can be done by droids)
C) cost of building the factory in the first place, which again shouldnt be high as you can us droids to build it.

the only real expence i can think of would be buying their blaster rifles

Are the clone troopers even payed? We know the Republic/Empire pays the cloners to produce them, but do they actually pay the individual soldiers? Its not as if they have a need for the money. The republic provides all living requirements for them, and they are conditioned from birth for a pure military lifestyle. I think it is unlikely that they would need any off-base R&R.

Are the clone troopers even payed

I wouldn't think so, the Galactic Republic/Empire obviously dosnt have much in the way of employment law.

But they would still need some sort of pension for when they get old
Also at least some storm troopers are normal people & the officer corps definatly is so they would require a regular wage.

Both clones troopers and stormies have retirement facilities set aside for them.

Spartan wrote:Both clones troopers and stormies have retirement facilities set aside for them.

I don't doubt it, but I can't imagine that there are many such facilities, or that they are large. The demand just isn't there. Still, it is an added cost that you wouldn't have with a droid army. Also, if a trooper for some reason doesn't stay in his whole life, (talking about recruits here, of course,) and later leaves, the military may end up helping to pay for things like job retraining. Yet another cost that wouldn't be a factor with droids.

THe retirement centers I've seen mentioned in the EU are dealing with the clonetroopers that wer ebeginning to suffer from accelerated aging. It got them into the fight that much quicker but they also end up geriatric by the time a normal human being is out of elementary school.

AK_Jedi wrote:Are the clone troopers even payed? We know the Republic/Empire pays the cloners to produce them, but do they actually pay the individual soldiers? Its not as if they have a need for the money. The republic provides all living requirements for them, and they are conditioned from birth for a pure military lifestyle. I think it is unlikely that they would need any off-base R&R.

Karen Traviss' (*shudders*) latest book mentions how the clone troopers are not paid. However there were people that wanted to get troopers visiting Coruscant a stipend so that they could enjoy leave there.

Didnt Prince Xizor have a personal droid that cost millions to make ?

There have been some mentions in EU about people-droids.

Planet of Twilight and one of the new NJO books had a guy on Bakura who was an android.

Thus if your making battledroids like in TPM then its going to be cheap, but for androids then it could come on par or exceed that of using a Clone/Storm Trooper army. Depends entirely on what the are being used for.

The other cost would be for filling in the roles needed in an army. So while a single Clone or Strom Trooper can be trained to do certain things, a droid would be made to fit one role.
So producing a certain line of droids to fill a role might be cheap but making multiple lines of droids to fill dozens of roles would raise the cost for making an army.

Where you could give any weapon to a clone or stormtrooper and have them use it with training, if you did the same to a droid it would have to know how to work the weapon and have the ability to use the weapon, this could be included in the programing but for droids like R2 they cant operate hand based weapons.

The armament cost would most likely by the highest after production set up costs - which shouldnt be that high since even Anakin was able to build a droid on his own from scavanged parts in his home.

Weapons will cost more, especially if they have to be custom made for the droids in question or additional equipment such as shields for Destroyer Droids.

Overall, production is mostly faster and cheaper than Clones/Stormies. How much cheaper depends on the droids.

According to WOTC a bog standard B1 costs 1800 credits, a SBD costs 3300 credits and a Droideka costs 21,000 credits.

If we use the 2 million credits for a trooper and that the droid costs are the manufacturing costs, which is generous, the TF wants to make a profit afterall, then for a single Clone or Stormie you could get ~1100 B1s or ~600 SBDs or ~95 Droidekas.

For a diverse force you can get 5 Droidekas, 10 SBDs and 100 B1s for the cost of a single Stormtrooper.

Have Jedi, actually managed to take down Droidekas, without some contrivance of plot? Ergo gravity shear, vehicle mounted blaster cannons from clones coming to the rescue, etc.

Plus the B-1 is clearly highly adaptable, they have the things doing everything from base command, to foot soldier, to flying starships afterall.

FOG3 wrote: Plus the B-1 is clearly highly adaptable, they have the things doing everything from base command, to foot soldier, to flying starships afterall.

There could be other differences besides the general appearance, i.e. programing, command & control, and time spent for upkeep. A combat droid will probably be more duriable than in the general specs due to harsher conditions and greater danger. the targeting programming could also have been altered. You don't need the exact same driod for ship security that you do for heavy planetside operations.

FOG3 wrote:Have Jedi, actually managed to take down Droidekas, without some contrivance of plot? Ergo gravity shear, vehicle mounted blaster cannons from clones coming to the rescue, etc.

Plus the B-1 is clearly highly adaptable, they have the things doing everything from base command, to foot soldier, to flying starships afterall.

Unfortunatly they are also rather vulnerable, a simple kick or force push puts them down heavily if not permanantly.
Those droids seemed excessively dumb, akin to cannon fodder. They are easily stored and are probably cheap because they are so bare but despite the general purpose ability, they really do suck at most of what they do.
More of a zergling mass swarm droid or for operations in urban areas that dont expect resistance.

If you had to choose between SBDs and B1s for combat, then the former comes across as being better, as for piloting starships ?
Given the technological sophistication of SW so that fighters can be droids themselves, then it would be more efficent to have ships with inbuilt droid pilots than B1s who can be killed and leave the ship pilotless.


As for Jedi vs. Destroyers based on Jedi capabilities it is possible that they could manage to take out a Destroyer using the Force to hurl things etc. Whether or not they can duke it out with a Lightsaber VS. a Destroyer is unlikely given the shield and the rate of fire those things churn out. Depends on the situation and the Jedi no doubt.

The maintenance costs are considerably smaller than a living army and if production was to go into android like units with improved strength and armour, then you have an ideal replacement for the B1 that can excel in general purpose performance.

Even a Terminator would be a better replacement for a B1 with SW technology upgrades.

I think that battle droids were cheaper, but I don't think that the standard trooper cost 2 million to train. In the X-Wing book Wraith Squadron Admiral Akbar says that the standard New Republic trooper cost "hundreds of thousands of credits" to train. And in a discussion between Grand Admiral Thrawn and Joruus C'baoth they pointed out that the rebels had better warriors. The better the warrior the more money it costs to train him/her. So, I would put the clone Training bill at about 150,000.

Are battle droids much more expensive than shit like R2 and 3PO? Because backwoods farmers on Planet Shit can buy droids like that, and own and maintain many more. Droids are clearly very cheap. I'd be surprised if Luke's speeder was worth less than a droid, for instance. Looked at like that, you could easily get one thousand crappy battledroids per soldier - and at that level, the droids are a good buy.

EDIT - GA, it doesn't work that way. You can spend piles of money for little benefit, or get more benefit out of less money per head. The 2M/trooper thing is probably an average of the facilities, supplies, food and time consumed during training, whereas the rebels probably used Afghanistan-style 'training camps'. No shit that's cheaper.

Stark wrote:Are battle droids much more expensive than shit like R2 and 3PO?

Well they do have a wider range of motion and likely are built of armor materials which would be more expensive.

Because backwoods farmers on Planet Shit can buy droids like that, and own and maintain many more. Droids are clearly very cheap.

That they are considering that it’s cost effective to have a droid pull a rickshaw on the equivalent of a third world planet. Relativly speaking I'd expect mass production of battledriods to be just cheap as hell. Just going out to buy one of anything can be expensive, but building billions of the things for war when you own the facotories and likely the required mines (no one making a profit) would really drive down costs.