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Do you think the sudden death of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin caused a tremendous political fall out throughout the political command structure of the Galactic Empire? Of course the first Death Star going KA-BOOM was a major set back for Empire, losing all that raw military hardware and millions of troops in one go, but a Death Star can be replaced and Palpatine could build another one. Which he did.

But you can't make a dead man jump back to life (unless you're a Sith Lord that can inhabit clone bodies ) and a valuable statesman such as Grand Moff Tarkin cannot be so easily replaced.

Mr. Tarkin (played well by the late, great Peter Cushing) seemed like a highly intelligent man with a shrewed political mind; with the exception of Admiral Thrawn, he seemed to be a much more realistic and capable Imperial leader than the rest of the two-bit and incompetent meglomaniacs that clog up most of the EU stories.

Here is a competent ruler who laid down the Tarkin Doctrine throughout the galaxy for Palpatine, championed the Death Star and had far more brain that Vader's brawn. I personally think that after Tarkin's death Vader was far too incompetent and brutish to hold together the Empire for Palpatine, and even Palpatine seemed to "lose it" when he thought up of that half-baked plan to trap the Rebels at Endor.

Up until Tarkin's death, the Empire was "winning" for two decades and Tarkin was just about to cement Palpatine's permenant hold on the galaxy before Luke fired tha lucky shot down the exhaust port.

Tarkin was the leader of what appeared to be a technocratic faction within the Empire. The ANH novelization implies that Tarkin and his ilk are really the ones running the empire; even Vader is nominally subordinate to him in the novel and film. Of course, that's incompatible with TEH ALL POWERFUL PALPATINE!!!!!! of the EU and the other films, so I supposed you'd have to retcon that as Palpatine deliberately settling behind the scenes and leaving the public and the government the impression he's been marginalized in favor of the technocrats. Personally, I like Palpatine as a hapless puppet of the bureaucrats, corporations, and Vader better than the uber Sith Lord of Doom we got later on, but SW isn't my universe.

At any rate, the destruction of the Death Star decapitates this faction and discredits the survivors. Palpatine reemerges as absolute ruler of the galaxy, with Vader his undisputed second in command. In ANH, they tried to crush the rebellion with Tarkin's technological terror; in TESB and ROTJ, the key to destroying the rebellion is turning Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side. After Vader and Palpatine die, the technocratic faction returns to the forefront, but there's no unified leadership and the Empire self-destructs.

Well, he obviously wasn't all über, as entire factions tried to conspire against him several times (lastly succeeding in 11 ABY). Even Vader almost kicked the bucket a few times due to treachery. The Sith may use divide and conquer tactics, but they're not all-knowing.

Well, the loss of the Death Star represents a massive blow to the IMperial military in trems of resources lost, even though it decimated the Rebel Alliance at Alderrran. Tarkin's death would have amounted to the death of a major cabinet offical on our world. There would have been some infighting to replave him but the Emperor would have found someone to fill the void of his crony. It would have appeared as a stirke against the Imperial elite, and thus the Emperor would have spun Tarkin's death into something of a matridom and used the incident as a way to gain more support for the war effort.

Tarkin's death and the loss of the Death Star were incidents that made the Empire view the Rebels as a real threat and forced tem to actually make real moved against them.

Nearly none. Tarkin's death is at best the loss of a semi important diplomat...a personal favorite of Palpatine, but nothing beyond that.

The Death Star loss was more of a PR loss then military. It represented that the Empire isn't invincible, but as for the military itself? Not even a drop in the bucket if one looks at the later two movies.

Even worse, I believe the Starfleet actually doubled the number of Star Destroyers over the next three years, as a result of the rebel victory. Way to go, team! :P

Tarkin I don't believe had any idea what overthrowing Palpatine or going up against Vader directly would entail, if there is information in the EU that contradicts me then I don't mind being wrong. From the films and what little of him I have seen in the EU though he probably thinks that an intact Death Star and his elevated standing within the Empire would make it possible for him to one day take the throne. If the Death Star hadn't been destroyed I think Tarkin's days were still numbered although instead of being atomized, he would have been Force choked by Vader at Palpatine's request.

RedImperator wrote:Tarkin was the leader of what appeared to be a technocratic faction within the Empire. The ANH novelization implies that Tarkin and his ilk are really the ones running the empire; even Vader is nominally subordinate to him in the novel and film. Of course, that's incompatible with TEH ALL POWERFUL PALPATINE!!!!!! of the EU and the other films, so I supposed you'd have to retcon that as Palpatine deliberately settling behind the scenes and leaving the public and the government the impression he's been marginalized in favor of the technocrats. Personally, I like Palpatine as a hapless puppet of the bureaucrats, corporations, and Vader better than the uber Sith Lord of Doom we got later on, but SW isn't my universe.

At any rate, the destruction of the Death Star decapitates this faction and discredits the survivors. Palpatine reemerges as absolute ruler of the galaxy, with Vader his undisputed second in command. In ANH, they tried to crush the rebellion with Tarkin's technological terror; in TESB and ROTJ, the key to destroying the rebellion is turning Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side. After Vader and Palpatine die, the technocratic faction returns to the forefront, but there's no unified leadership and the Empire self-destructs.

The reality of SW politics is a little more byzantine. Palpatine wrote political and economic treatises which were heavily en vogue before he was even an important politician. This nucleus of Palpatinism, if you will, was expanded upon by Tarkin, who wrote Visions of a New Order and later of course suggested the eponymous "Tarkin Doctrine" to one of Palpatine's most important advisors, Ars Dangor (it has been suggested that one or both was ghost-written by Palpatine himself). Anyway, these doctrines, in synthesis with Palpatine's early theories formed the ideological base of COMPNOR and the New Order Party. It was partially through these efforts Palpatine solidified and began replacing the old elites within the Empire. The destruction of the Death Star partially repudiated this technocratic and radical faction (perhaps these types can be likened to a broader, totalitarian analog of the neoconservatives' influence in the Bush Administration) with respect to the military and security policy of the Empire: conventional military build-up and deployment occured, and at least on some level they also lost out in direct political influence because an apparent enemy in Vader was officially elevated to the Supreme Commander-ship. But it was hardly totally phased out, in the permanent recess of the Senate, COMPNOR occupied many of the bureaucratic and administrative duties the Senate had nominally carried out, and a second Death Star - much larger too - was also constructed.

Tarkin was the leader of what appeared to be a technocratic faction within the Empire. The ANH novelization implies that Tarkin and his ilk are really the ones running the empire; even Vader is nominally subordinate to him in the novel and film. Of course, that's incompatible with TEH ALL POWERFUL PALPATINE!!!!!! of the EU and the other films, so I supposed you'd have to retcon that as Palpatine deliberately settling behind the scenes and leaving the public and the government the impression he's been marginalized in favor of the technocrats. Personally, I like Palpatine as a hapless puppet of the bureaucrats, corporations, and Vader better than the uber Sith Lord of Doom we got later on, but SW isn't my universe.

I don't think there needs to be any retconning.

Palpatine is a very devious and powerful man but he can't be everywhere at once and the Empire is big enough for people such as Tarkin or Vader to build up their own powerbases and draw out their own plans to seize the throne beneath Palpatine's nose. Tarkin's own special trump card was the Death Star, while Vader's own ace in the hole was Luke Skywalker. Tarkin never got the chance, while Vader only half succeeded at the cost of his life and the demise of the Imperial regime.

I wouldn't say the corporations or Tarkin and the other Moffs were using Palpatine as a puppet because Palpatine was using them as proxies to rule the galaxy. Sienar Fleet Systems, Kuat Drive Yards and TaggeCo. did not control Palpatine anymore than I.G. Farben, Krupp and Volkswagen AG controlled Hitler. I don't think Grand Moff Tarkin really ruled the Empire, he was just a competent high ranking marshall that was entrusted by Palpatine to rule the Outer Rim territories.

I kind of see Tarkin in A New Hope as not being much different to Viceroy Nute Gunray, only that Tarkin had much more back bone, was starting to get funny ideas of his own onboard the Death Star and did not suffer Sith Lords lightly.

And I still think Tarkin's death would cause far more long terms problems to the Empire than Lucas is willing to let out on, since as soon as Vader is given the reigns of power Palpatine's plans that were neatly drawn out over an entire lifetime immediately go to shit during the time period of The Empire Strikes Back.