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Just a question I was thinking about today in class. If my hazy memory serves, the Rebellion stole the first batch of X-Wings while they were on route to the Empire, or something along those lines, correct? If they had to procure X-Wings through such means, and that they were not fed a constant supply, I just want to know how many squadrons worth could the Rebellion have possibly fielded?

But if I'm wrong, and Incom WAS supplying the Rebellion, did they do so clandestinely to avoid Imperial retaliation, or did they just say to hell with it and went pro-Rebellion?

The Empire found out about Incom's aid to the Rebels, and took over the company and had it nationalized. However, the Incom design team was able to escape and defect to the Rebellion with the X-wing plans (they later founded FreiTek and manufactured the E-wing). The Rebels were able to produce their own X-wings.

Ahh I see. Thanks for the info

Jim Raynor wrote:The Empire found out about Incom's aid to the Rebels, and took over the company and had it nationalized. However, the Incom design team was able to escape and defect to the Rebellion with the X-wing plans (they later founded FreiTek and manufactured the E-wing). The Rebels were able to produce their own X-wings.

To elaborate--

Much of this production was small-scale, in small planetary factories run by sympathizers. Outright production of the X-wing, a known Rebel design, would've certainly brought Imperial ire down upon the planet. I believe Tycho Celchu mentions having wood in his cockpit from Cardooine; though I can't remember if that was an A-wing or a X-wing...

That was A-Wings Not X-Wings.

the Wraith Squadron X-Wing books mentions that Incom are notoriously slow building replacement X-Wings. Which is why by the end of the trilogy something like a quartre of the Wraiths have to fly captured TIEs instead.

Elheru Aran wrote:

Jim Raynor wrote:The Empire found out about Incom's aid to the Rebels, and took over the company and had it nationalized. However, the Incom design team was able to escape and defect to the Rebellion with the X-wing plans (they later founded FreiTek and manufactured the E-wing). The Rebels were able to produce their own X-wings.

To elaborate--

Much of this production was small-scale, in small planetary factories run by sympathizers. Outright production of the X-wing, a known Rebel design, would've certainly brought Imperial ire down upon the planet. I believe Tycho Celchu mentions having wood in his cockpit from Cardooine; though I can't remember if that was an A-wing or a X-wing...

He was indeed talking about his A-wing, but I think its safe to assume that the same sort of manufacturing principles held for most of their fighters

It's likely the X-Wings were produced in their low thousands in small and illegal workshops located on industrial worlds with secret Rebel connections.

yeah maybe but then again if i remember right corran horn in one of the X-wing books is described as having had his own X-wing before he joined Rogue squadron so if thats the case it throws the whole X-wings are a rebel only fighter thing into doubt does'nt it?

That sounds like typical EU bullshit to me, having the X-wing being available to non-Rebel personnel.

The X-Wing that Horn 'liberated' from CorSec was an X-Wing that CorSec had captured, I believe.

Agent Fisher wrote:The X-Wing that Horn 'liberated' from CorSec was an X-Wing that CorSec had captured, I believe.

Either that or CorSec purchased some X-wings from Incom before the company was tainted by associating with Rebels; IIRC, they're somewhat like a beefier version of Naboo's security forces that pull double-duty as police, so it makes sense for them to operate as a quasi-military body, with an air/space force. The X-wings would constitute that, along with whatever troop transports they had as well.

What isn't entirely clear is whether or not any duplicates of the X Wing plans remained at Incom. One possible explanation for the non-rebel X Wings would be Incom resuming production of them under Imperial control for Imperial-affiliated governments (the CSA, et cetera). Naturally, one would expect considerable systems differences between any Imperialized-Incom X Wings and their homemade Rebel counterparts.

Edit: if I had to make a WAG about the exact number of X Wings the Rebels had by the time of ROTJ, I'd guess that it would be in the vicinity of 500. I would imagine that the vast majority of Rebel operations involved Y Wings, which were in all probability far more numerous, having been mass produced by Koensayr for a number of years.

As I recall, the Empire had the plans for the X-Wing, but didn't want to produce it.

Early in the civil war, this was possibly due to Imperial naval policy which wanted lightly armed, fast, highly maneuverably and expendable fighters, ie, TIE/ln. The X-Wing is pretty much the opposite to that concept.

Later it was probably because the X-Wing was too connected with the rebels, making it sour politics to adopt it.

Even later, they had the Advanced marks, Avengers, Defenders, et al, no longer needing X-Wings.

X-Wing sales could also have been a part of a revenue stream for the rebels. They could have sold small numbers of X-Wings to insignifcant rim systems and the like that probably would not have drawn the ire of the EMpire for fielding those fighters and the rebels justified the loss of valuable fighters with having hard currency - and even scarcer commodity in the rebellion then fighting ships.

Out of curiosity, did the Rebels use Imperial credits for conducting monetary transactions? I would think that there would be a fair amount of danger involved in leaving any kind of paper trail in conducting Rebel business, and while one of the books I read did indicate that the Empire used coins (for reasons I can't imagine), I would guess that the Empire had sophisticated transaction monitoring infrastructure in place. I would suspect the Rebels would be more likely to use orally negotiated non-monetary barter transactions, which would be harder for the Empire to detect.

Stravo wrote:X-Wing sales could also have been a part of a revenue stream for the rebels. They could have sold small numbers of X-Wings to insignifcant rim systems and the like that probably would not have drawn the ire of the EMpire for fielding those fighters and the rebels justified the loss of valuable fighters with having hard currency - and even scarcer commodity in the rebellion then fighting ships.

I don't know. If the only ones producing X-Wings were Rebels and Rebel sympathizers, I think that'd bring the Empire down quick on 'em to find the trail.

Stravo wrote:X-Wing sales could also have been a part of a revenue stream for the rebels. They could have sold small numbers of X-Wings to insignifcant rim systems and the like that probably would not have drawn the ire of the EMpire for fielding those fighters and the rebels justified the loss of valuable fighters with having hard currency - and even scarcer commodity in the rebellion then fighting ships.

That's a distinct possibility, but it doesn't account for CorSec fielding X-Wings, since Correllia is a prominent Core World.


Off-topic, and this is just one of my hairbrained ideas, but I don't think the performance differences between T-65s and TIE/ln fighters are as great as it's made out to be in sources of lower canonicity than the movies.
Visual inspection or movie scenes, as well as ILM design notes, show that they're supposed to have identical speed and maneuverabilty (probably acceleration and rotation rates, realistically). They don't seem too disparate in terms of durability, either (or possibly, TIE weapons have just enough power to effectively level out the advantage of the T-65's toughness).

IIRC CorSec's X-Wings were seized from the Rebellion and they only had a couple at most.

RThurmont wrote:Out of curiosity, did the Rebels use Imperial credits for conducting monetary transactions? I would think that there would be a fair amount of danger involved in leaving any kind of paper trail in conducting Rebel business, and while one of the books I read did indicate that the Empire used coins (for reasons I can't imagine), I would guess that the Empire had sophisticated transaction monitoring infrastructure in place. I would suspect the Rebels would be more likely to use orally negotiated non-monetary barter transactions, which would be harder for the Empire to detect.

IIRC, Solo was paid off in commodities by the Alliance in Episode IV, which would tend to support the barter theory.

Cykeisme wrote: Off-topic, and this is just one of my hairbrained ideas, but I don't think the performance differences between T-65s and TIE/ln fighters are as great as it's made out to be in sources of lower canonicity than the movies.
Visual inspection or movie scenes, as well as ILM design notes, show that they're supposed to have identical speed and maneuverabilty (probably acceleration and rotation rates, realistically). They don't seem too disparate in terms of durability, either (or possibly, TIE weapons have just enough power to effectively level out the advantage of the T-65's toughness).

I've always thought that the TIE fighters, not having any (combat) shields, could divert more power to weapons than X-Wings.

Cykeisme wrote:They don't seem too disparate in terms of durability, either (or possibly, TIE weapons have just enough power to effectively level out the advantage of the T-65's toughness).

Sure, you see them die with about the same number of hits, but especially in the first death star fight, look at how they die. TIE fighters tend to simply explode, while the rebel fighters break up into larger chunks and burn up (or sometimes take the hit with no visible damage). So more likely, neither ship can survive sustained direct hits, but the X-Wing has a clear advantage in stopping glancing blows. Which isn't exactly a minor benefit in a turning dogfight where it's difficult to get more than a single hastily-aimed shot at your target.

I've always thought that the TIE fighters, not having any (combat) shields, could divert more power to weapons than X-Wings.

Maybe a higher percentage of their power, but I seriously doubt it could be more in absolute terms. Not only is the X-Wing a larger fighter (more room for power generation), but take a look at the size of those guns compared to the TIE-fighter.

If playing the XWing and TIE Fighter games could serve as a basis for reality here, I'd hypothocize that the rebel fighters couldn't afford to increase power to their shield generators, as it would slow them down, making them an easy mark for the turbolaser towers as well as the other TIE fighters out there. If you'll remember, the main thing going for the X- and Y-Wing attack force was that they were too small and fast for the anti-ship turbolasers to adequatelt target.

In the games, the "normal" shield recharging position basically maintained the shields where they were, "increased" dropping speed to 88, "maximum" down to 75.

I'd think they'd either be keeping the shields to "normal" for as long as possible to keep speed up, or even diverting shield power to the engines and instead relying on speed and the built-up shield charge to last as long as it could, as well as possibly shunting laser power to the shields. That's something I did in the games fairly often, as the lasers seemed to recharge faster than the shields could.

lPeregrine wrote:Maybe a higher percentage of their power, but I seriously doubt it could be more in absolute terms. Not only is the X-Wing a larger fighter (more room for power generation), but take a look at the size of those guns compared to the TIE-fighter.

Actually, most of the length of the X-wing is stuff to help it aim or something like that. Wraith Squadron shows you can take the laser cannon and make it small enough to be man(well, Gammorean, at least)-portable, though obviously it wouldn't have a lot of shots and would be horribly inaccurate.