StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I have got a question based on AotC. I would appreciate the input of other posters on this question: Can SW energy/particle weapons be used in indirect fire modes like conventional artillary (shoot over the hill, etc.)?

The reason I ask is because of the large heavy gun vehicles that Yoda uses to shoot down the Trade Federation core ship. The more I look at them, the more they look like the South African army's self-propelled 155-mm artillary piece. Are they meant to be artillary weapons? If so, how do they fire at targets out of line of sight?

I recall that, at the beginning of 'Terminator 2', you see the large battle from Gen. Connor's point of view, and several of the plasma bursts are seen going ballistic, curving over and coming down after being fired into the air. It seems odd to imagine an energy or particle stream being affected by gravity, but can it be done? The best idea I can come up with is having charged particles as your weapon discharge. Then fire them through an electromagnetic solenoid, adding a slight 'curve' to the particles' trajectory so that they come down BVR. I'm not sure if that would actually work though.

Thoughts/comments/criticism?

I've had the exact same thoughts.
But unfortunately we've got absolutely no proof for that.

Well, if we use non-canon, non-official data (ie games), artillery can fire in parabolic arcs.

We might speculate that the SPHA works in the same way, but there's nothing definite. I would say that they work with indirect fire though, since they obviously aren't designed with anti-air as primary function.

SPHA are modular. The big turbolasers would be useless against fighters for example, but the concussion missile module should work.

nightmare wrote:Well, if we use non-canon, non-official data (ie games), artillery can fire in parabolic arcs.

Games can decieve you don't trust them.

We might speculate that the SPHA works in the same way, but there's nothing definite. I would say that they work with indirect fire though, since they obviously aren't designed with anti-air as primary function.

I disagree, I think anti-airisthere primary function. Not the little fighters now mind you, I'm talking about the big Correli-er Capital ships. After all they did that job so well, I don't see hwo it couldn't be there primary function.

Other things that suggest laser cannot arc over terran is the fact that the AT-ATs at Hoth had to wait until they were within line of light distance (17.28 kilometers) until they opened fire on the shield generator. Furthermore suggested they don't have arcs because the rebels also didn't fire over the horizon to hit the Imperial walkers.

I do believe that the SW civilizations either use missle launchers (an SPH-C)or air power (even orbital support).

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

nightmare wrote:Well, if we use non-canon, non-official data (ie games), artillery can fire in parabolic arcs.

Games can decieve you don't trust them.

Yes they can.. but they may also lead you right.

nightmare wrote:We might speculate that the SPHA works in the same way, but there's nothing definite. I would say that they work with indirect fire though, since they obviously aren't designed with anti-air as primary function.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I disagree, I think anti-airisthere primary function. Not the little fighters now mind you, I'm talking about the big Correli-er Capital ships. After all they did that job so well, I don't see hwo it couldn't be there primary function.

Other things that suggest laser cannot arc over terran is the fact that the AT-ATs at Hoth had to wait until they were within line of light distance (17.28 kilometers) until they opened fire on the shield generator. Furthermore suggested they don't have arcs because the rebels also didn't fire over the horizon to hit the Imperial walkers.

I do believe that the SW civilizations either use missle launchers (an SPH-C)or air power (even orbital support).

Does not compute. AT-AT's have horisontally mounted guns. SPHA are modular weapons. They are walkers = means they provide artillery support even when the troops move in under a theatre shield, the reason they are walkers, if you're to belive the designers. What use would it be to fire anti-air from under an impenetrable shield anyway? Arty support wouldn't be needed.

nightmare wrote:Yes they can.. but they may also lead you right.

Has any X-Wing game lead us right? I don't believe a single X-Wing can kill an ISD with a pair of proton torps, and I hope you don't either! To further on "games" lets try RPGs. I think WEG was pretty damn unreliable myself. I don't think there's a single game out there that doesn't slaughter continuity for playability (not that that's a bad thing mind you, it just makes the sources inaccurate).

Does not compute. AT-AT's have horisontally mounted guns. SPHA are modular weapons. They are walkers = means they provide artillery support even when the troops move in under a theatre shield, the reason they are walkers, if you're to belive the designers. What use would it be to fire anti-air from under an impenetrable shield anyway? Arty support wouldn't be needed.

SPHAs can be as modular as they like, that still doesn't say anything about them firing over the horizon.

And the reason you would need anti-air artillery is in cases such as Geonosis! When the battle is spur of the moment, and no theatre shield is erected, and the space above is being contested for.

I think it is possible, but not with energy weapons, something similar to a concussion grenade the AT-ST is armed with, but concussion artillry. Now if they have anything like this I don't know, but it probly possible.

Couldn't the beam just punch through the hill, making it a moot point?

I've had this question as well, and I can't figure it out. I see one of two possibilities:
1) It can, but only if modified to launch something different
2) It can't, hence why the Grandfather gun from EGWT was used, since being on repulsors means it can raise up so it isn't an issue.

I can't begin to comprehend how you could think a SPHA-T looks like a G6...

I don't think turbolasers or blasters can do indirect fire, and in general unpowered indirect fire weapons are almost non-existent in StarWars. Its possibul they have something like THEL that we've never seen, the result being only missiles which might mount a protective shield or differing construction can be used. The strange flight paths we see in AOTC might be because of this threat, the irregular flight paths make interception more difficult. Though a good old corkscrew would be better.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

nightmare wrote:Yes they can.. but they may also lead you right.

Has any X-Wing game lead us right? I don't believe a single X-Wing can kill an ISD with a pair of proton torps, and I hope you don't either! To further on "games" lets try RPGs. I think WEG was pretty damn unreliable myself. I don't think there's a single game out there that doesn't slaughter continuity for playability (not that that's a bad thing mind you, it just makes the sources inaccurate).

[/quote]

I'm well aware of the problems with the games. Play balancing doesn't exclude the existance of for example the AT-AA though. Even Saxton included it in his pages.

nightmare wrote:Does not compute. AT-AT's have horisontally mounted guns. SPHA are modular weapons. They are walkers = means they provide artillery support even when the troops move in under a theatre shield, the reason they are walkers, if you're to belive the designers. What use would it be to fire anti-air from under an impenetrable shield anyway? Arty support wouldn't be needed.

SPHAs can be as modular as they like, that still doesn't say anything about them firing over the horizon.[/quote]

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:And the reason you would need anti-air artillery is in cases such as Geonosis! When the battle is spur of the moment, and no theatre shield is erected, and the space above is being contested for.

Only when firing at ships in very low orbit. Otherwise they could just move out of the way. The thing is, they are designed as walkers so that they can get under a theatre shield - read enemy shield. What would they be good for under it, if they couldn't shoot indirect fire?

nightmare wrote: Only when firing at ships in very low orbit. Otherwise they could just move out of the way.

Precisely that.The threat posed by capital ship annihilating you from the above is very real.You need a very heavy AA system to give them something to worry about.They can also be used against others types of targets.
Besides how would indirect fire be accomplished? Firing a curved beam?

Admiral Piett wrote:

nightmare wrote: Only when firing at ships in very low orbit. Otherwise they could just move out of the way.

Precisely that.The threat posed by capital ship annihilating you from the above is very real.You need a very heavy AA system to give them something to worry about.They can also be used against others types of targets.
Besides how would indirect fire be accomplished? Firing a curved beam?

Never contested the usefulness of heavy AA fire in the Geonosis situation. Read my point about theatre shields. And yes, I imagine they would fire a parabolic beam, just like shock cannons or HAPs.

Erh.. make that a parabolic bolt, not beam. Inaccurate choice of words.

nightmare wrote:Erh.. make that a parabolic bolt, not beam. Inaccurate choice of words.

Mmmm,difficult to say.I am somewhat sceptical about the possibility of firing a bolt on a curved path.We are clueless about the true nature of SW energy weapons, so we cannot really exclude this capability.But
the little we have (AT-AT height for example) points in the opposite direction.I doubt that bolts are affected by gravity in a significant manner.
As I said the role for this system alredy exists.Trying to find an other on the basis of a dubious possibility...

I was certainly skeptical to parabolic energy bolts, but since then I've seen it in several games, so I started to wonder if this was the case for the artillery that, before AOTC, I only expected to exist, but had no canon proof of.

Sure, it's still absolutely not canon, but the possibility of their existance is there. It looks to me as if the bolt falls down by gravity, but of course, that may be just what it looks like. Don't ask me how it works.

AT-AT's and other such vehicles still operate by line of sight. Parabolic fire arc is limited to a few dedicated artillery pieces.

This Trade Federation cannon is such a weapon: http://swgb.heavengames.com/images/conc ... kdroid.jpg

Found the Imperial Shock Cannon too, it fires a bolt in a parabolic arc:

http://swgb.heavengames.com/images/rend ... cannon.jpg