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This is another thing i thought i'd ask because of my fanfic.

The question is how does hyperspace mapping work. In KOTOR during a loading screen it says that "Mapping Hyperspace routes is a dangerous occupation and as such large parts of the galaxy still remain undiscovered."

My theory behind this is that they simply put a pilot in a ship and then launch him into hyperspace and hope he comes out intact on the other side. That would explain the danger part at least.

I'm asking this because i basically need the Empire to delay an invasion of the Federation for some reason, and if they indeed have to map out hyperspace routes in an unkown galaxy this way then it would certainly take time.

I would assume that they focus sensors into that area first, map out all the stars and other major navigational hazzards first. Then they probably send in probes (whether or not they are robotic or manned, I couldn't hazard a guess) for close up and detailed work.

Knife wrote:I would assume that they focus sensors into that area first, map out all the stars and other major navigational hazzards first. Then they probably send in probes (whether or not they are robotic or manned, I couldn't hazard a guess) for close up and detailed work.

So there is no canon information on how it would be done? But then again why would there be, seeing as the SW verse has never needed to map out strange galaxies before.

In any case, i would agree with that assesment, but the "dangerous" part in KOTOR would suggest that the vessels or probes used during this would have to be manned and they would be in some sort of danger.

Do you know the range for SW scanners? If it isn't a very long distance then first scanning an area and then probing it would take a very long time. Might be more efficent just to send a vessel through hyperspace and then mapping space around it while there?

l33telboi wrote:
So there is no canon information on how it would be done? But then again why would there be, seeing as the SW verse has never needed to map out strange galaxies before.

In any case, i would agree with that assesment, but the "dangerous" part in KOTOR would suggest that the vessels or probes used during this would have to be manned and they would be in some sort of danger.

Do you know the range for SW scanners? If it isn't a very long distance then first scanning an area and then probing it would take a very long time. Might be more efficent just to send a vessel through hyperspace and then mapping space around it while there?

A telescope can see pretty far. Which would be time consuming, but it would map out the very large navigational hazards. Once you have an idea where the stars are, you can send in mobile units for detailed mapping.

I'm sure the 'danger' comes in the form of unknown gravity shadows (or whatever they're called) and possilbe hostile natives.

l33telboi wrote:
So there is no canon information on how it would be done? But then again why would there be, seeing as the SW verse has never needed to map out strange galaxies before.

In any case, i would agree with that assesment, but the "dangerous" part in KOTOR would suggest that the vessels or probes used during this would have to be manned and they would be in some sort of danger.

Do you know the range for SW scanners? If it isn't a very long distance then first scanning an area and then probing it would take a very long time. Might be more efficent just to send a vessel through hyperspace and then mapping space around it while there?

Wasn't it mentioned in the Exar Kun comics that probes were used to map out hyperspace routes?

And that they were highly expensive?

PainRack wrote:

l33telboi wrote:
So there is no canon information on how it would be done? But then again why would there be, seeing as the SW verse has never needed to map out strange galaxies before.

In any case, i would agree with that assesment, but the "dangerous" part in KOTOR would suggest that the vessels or probes used during this would have to be manned and they would be in some sort of danger.

Do you know the range for SW scanners? If it isn't a very long distance then first scanning an area and then probing it would take a very long time. Might be more efficent just to send a vessel through hyperspace and then mapping space around it while there?

Wasn't it mentioned in the Exar Kun comics that probes were used to map out hyperspace routes?

And that they were highly expensive?

Do you remember if there was any mention of time? How long the mapping process took and how much space they mapped in that time?

l33telboi wrote:

Knife wrote:I would assume that they focus sensors into that area first, map out all the stars and other major navigational hazzards first. Then they probably send in probes (whether or not they are robotic or manned, I couldn't hazard a guess) for close up and detailed work.

So there is no canon information on how it would be done? But then again why would there be, seeing as the SW verse has never needed to map out strange galaxies before.

In any case, i would agree with that assesment, but the "dangerous" part in KOTOR would suggest that the vessels or probes used during this would have to be manned and they would be in some sort of danger.

Do you know the range for SW scanners? If it isn't a very long distance then first scanning an area and then probing it would take a very long time. Might be more efficent just to send a vessel through hyperspace and then mapping space around it while there?

I doubt that the Empire would really worry about the danger. They had plenty of prisoners at Kessel. All they would have to do is strap one of them in a ship with a tracking device and launch it into hyperspace. If it get destroyed, oh well, just one less prisoner to worry about. If it makes it, just follow the tracking device and pick up the ship.

Other than the vague canon mention, it seems like it would be pretty straightforward; after figuring out the major astronomical bodies (planets, moons, asteroids, stars), you send unmanned probes along certain routes to see if they can be successfully traveled.

The expense could come from the lost probes, particularly in places where the routes discovered would be convoluted and difficult.

I think the 'dangerous' part of mapping was supposed to be the exploration of a planets surface.

The guide to droids has quite a few droids of various sorts designed for the exploration of unknown environments and gos into some detail about how Republic scout craft were lost upon making first contact with many species (the Gamorreans and the Aqualish) who stole the ships technology, or in the case of the Gamorreans simply killed the crew and set fire to the ship.

I think previous posters are right in that the dangers of "flying right through a star or bouncing too close to a supernova" would exclude manned craft from taking untested routes and that probe droidswould almost definatly be used. However the Lando trilogy of books does make mention of 'un-mapped' shortcuts that are used by both pirates and smugglers for bypassing customs and ambushing cargo ships. From this it would seem that atleast some manned exploration of the hyperlanes does take place.

Also, when the SW galaxy was being mapped the tech they had wasn't as refined as it is in the movie era because the main exploration of the galaxy occurred from 25,000 to 5,000 years before the movie era. So just by having hyperdrives being a brand new barely understood tech could account for a part of the danger. Also the Tales of the Jedi comics shows hyperspace pathfinders doing the actual testing of routes instead of droids, however they were a poor private company and this was 5,000 years before the movie era so probe droids could be expensive pieces of equipment used by larger companies and governments at that time.

WEG had a description of hyperspace mapping in either the core rulebook or the main sourcebook. IIRC, it involves an automated probe (or less commonly, a manned ship) making short jumps, 1 LYr or less, and then stopping to intensely scan the surrounding area to document hazards before making another jump.

Srynerson wrote:WEG had a description of hyperspace mapping in either the core rulebook or the main sourcebook. IIRC, it involves an automated probe (or less commonly, a manned ship) making short jumps, 1 LYr or less, and then stopping to intensely scan the surrounding area to document hazards before making another jump.

If this is true then the mapping process would take forever. I suppose i have to deus ex machina something in the fic to make it go faster then.

l33telboi wrote:

Srynerson wrote:WEG had a description of hyperspace mapping in either the core rulebook or the main sourcebook. IIRC, it involves an automated probe (or less commonly, a manned ship) making short jumps, 1 LYr or less, and then stopping to intensely scan the surrounding area to document hazards before making another jump.

If this is true then the mapping process would take forever. I suppose i have to deus ex machina something in the fic to make it go faster then.

Well, wouldn't it be possible to send out many probes, each communicating with a central database? I mean, that would make more sense to me.

I've read a comic where dudes where exploring new hyperspace routes with a manned ship, using extensive sensors and lots of luck/risk.

Stark wrote:I've read a comic where dudes where exploring new hyperspace routes with a manned ship, using extensive sensors and lots of luck/risk.

I wonder how much control they can exert over the speeds of their hyperdrive engines. If there's only one speed mode I would imagine them dropping in and out every now and then.

rhoenix wrote:

l33telboi wrote:

Srynerson wrote:WEG had a description of hyperspace mapping in either the core rulebook or the main sourcebook. IIRC, it involves an automated probe (or less commonly, a manned ship) making short jumps, 1 LYr or less, and then stopping to intensely scan the surrounding area to document hazards before making another jump.

If this is true then the mapping process would take forever. I suppose i have to deus ex machina something in the fic to make it go faster then.

Well, wouldn't it be possible to send out many probes, each communicating with a central database? I mean, that would make more sense to me.

Sure, but they would still have to go 1LYr at a time wouldn't they? As jumping double that distance would also double the risk. They could spread out in a sphere from their starting point but the borders of that sphere would only spread 1LYr at a time. Besides, if the probes can map one cubic light year per jump then the number of probes would increase drastically over time.

Stark wrote:I've read a comic where dudes where exploring new hyperspace routes with a manned ship, using extensive sensors and lots of luck/risk.

Yeah, that's in Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of the Sith. Basically they (Gav and Jori Daragon, the explorers) blaze new hyperroutes by plotting courses through areas that seem more or less clear of mass shadows in their long-range sensors.

000 wrote:Yeah, that's in Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of the Sith. Basically they (Gav and Jori Daragon, the explorers) blaze new hyperroutes by plotting courses through areas that seem more or less clear of mass shadows in their long-range sensors.

I'm amazed people can recognise the book I'm talking about from such a vague 'these dudes' description.

I find it quite interesting that a civilization that can destroy entire planets, clone stable genetically modified humans in under 10 years, and transverse thousands of light years in a few days or less wouldn't have a computer powerful enough to plot a route by itself.

That's how I understood Hyperspace worked in ANH, since it takes various minutes for Han to get the coordinates for the jump since his nav computer was calculating it. I was thinking that each Nav Computer could position itself in the galaxy using a system similair to GPS ( Galactic Positioning System? ), and then calculate the shortest route from point A to point B taking into account obstacles like Stars, Supernovas, or whatever.

I mean, we have computers in our cars that can calculate the fastest route between two points in most cities, and we've had the technology for less than 100 years. These people have been exploring the galaxy for 25,000 years already.

Our current copmuters could probably even map a route through the Galaxy, if they had a database to access. We already have a pretty good idea what's going on in our immediate galactic vicinity, including the relative positions of other Galaxies in our Cluster, so I don't think with the level of tech they have in Star Wars it would take more than a few years to plot all the Stars and Anomalies in a alien galaxy, and from that create a database which the Nav Computers can access to plot a course.

I understand their being certain limitations, for political and military reasons, so that ships have to pass through certain checkpoints and can't just plot a route to bypass them, but the whole idea of lanes was a bit weird to me. In the movies, and even in the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games hyperspace is just talked about in "coordinates", which to me always seemed more reasonable in 3D space. That's just me though

Or maybe I just don't understand exactly what Hyperlanes are?

Seydlitz_k wrote:I find it quite interesting that a civilization that can destroy entire planets, clone stable genetically modified humans in under 10 years, and transverse thousands of light years in a few days or less wouldn't have a computer powerful enough to plot a route by itself.

That's how I understood Hyperspace worked in ANH, since it takes various minutes for Han to get the coordinates for the jump since his nav computer was calculating it. I was thinking that each Nav Computer could position itself in the galaxy using a system similair to GPS ( Galactic Positioning System? ), and then calculate the shortest route from point A to point B taking into account obstacles like Stars, Supernovas, or whatever.

I mean, we have computers in our cars that can calculate the fastest route between two points in most cities, and we've had the technology for less than 100 years. These people have been exploring the galaxy for 25,000 years already.

Our current copmuters could probably even map a route through the Galaxy, if they had a database to access. We already have a pretty good idea what's going on in our immediate galactic vicinity, including the relative positions of other Galaxies in our Cluster, so I don't think with the level of tech they have in Star Wars it would take more than a few years to plot all the Stars and Anomalies in a alien galaxy, and from that create a database which the Nav Computers can access to plot a course.

I understand their being certain limitations, for political and military reasons, so that ships have to pass through certain checkpoints and can't just plot a route to bypass them, but the whole idea of lanes was a bit weird to me. In the movies, and even in the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games hyperspace is just talked about in "coordinates", which to me always seemed more reasonable in 3D space. That's just me though

Or maybe I just don't understand exactly what Hyperlanes are?

The way you described how you've understood how hyperspace works is about the same way George Lucas described it in the ANH DVD commentary. I don't like the EU idea of hyperlanes one bit and the EUs take on hyperspace speeds etc. are completely diametrical as to what is inferred in the movies.

Stark wrote:I'm amazed people can recognise the book I'm talking about from such a vague 'these dudes' description.

Pathetic, isn't it?

The way you described how you've understood how hyperspace works is about the same way George Lucas described it in the ANH DVD commentary. I don't like the EU idea of hyperlanes one bit and the EUs take on hyperspace speeds etc. are completely diametrical as to what is inferred in the movies.

I suspect that most hyperlanes, excepting those areas of very high spatial disturbance, are obsolete. In early periods, like during the first Sith war and KOTOR, Hyperdrives are either slower or far less reliable, and much of galaxy seems to still be largely unmapped, either out of a lack of interest, or because of the dangers involved. In this environment, either through mandate, or by simple common partice, regular travel routes were bound to develop, simply because using them would be far safer and more time efficent than blazing your own trail, even if the lane took you out of your way.

By the time of the Galactic Civil War, Hyperdrive technology seems to be far more effective, and a small ship is able to cross the galaxy in only a few days, plotting its own course. However, some of these lanes might very well still exist, either out of simple tradition, government regulation efforts, or because it would be easier to find a damaged vessel if it had to dump on a well-traveled route rather than in the middle of nowhere.

Noble Ire wrote:

The way you described how you've understood how hyperspace works is about the same way George Lucas described it in the ANH DVD commentary. I don't like the EU idea of hyperlanes one bit and the EUs take on hyperspace speeds etc. are completely diametrical as to what is inferred in the movies.

I suspect that most hyperlanes, excepting those areas of very high spatial disturbance, are obsolete. In early periods, like during the first Sith war and KOTOR, Hyperdrives are either slower or far less reliable, and much of galaxy seems to still be largely unmapped, either out of a lack of interest, or because of the dangers involved. In this environment, either through mandate, or by simple common partice, regular travel routes were bound to develop, simply because using them would be far safer and more time efficent than blazing your own trail, even if the lane took you out of your way.

By the time of the Galactic Civil War, Hyperdrive technology seems to be far more effective, and a small ship is able to cross the galaxy in only a few days, plotting its own course. However, some of these lanes might very well still exist, either out of simple tradition, government regulation efforts, or because it would be easier to find a damaged vessel if it had to dump on a well-traveled route rather than in the middle of nowhere.

You do have a point, but there's also other things to consider such as galactic rotation etc. (but I can see the usefulness of hyperspace lanes during the early exploration of the galaxy).

You do have a point, but there's also other things to consider such as galactic rotation etc. (but I can see the usefulness of hyperspace lanes during the early exploration of the galaxy).

I would imagine that the lanes aren't static, but rather a programmed into nav computers to account for stellar drift and the like (besides, its not like they'd be that hard to update). The "lanes" are probably more a specific sequence of readily avalible and well-maintained stats on a series of systems in the path of one route, rather than an actual "road" or something.

Adding to what's already been said, the EU "hyperlanes" idea doesn't make sense anyway, because the distribution of matter (and features) should be uniform enough that you wouldn't have a less congested "lane" leading all the way from the core to the rim.

The "Corellian Trade Spine" and such are probably just a routes that happen to have several important stops along the way.