That's right, ROTJ never happened, leaving ANH and TESB as the only source material to draw upon and YOU are now in charge of continuing the saga. What do you do? What changes do you make? And how does your continuation affect the backstory and the prequels?
Me, I'd have completely rewritten the history of Vader/Anakin. For one, and most importantly, they would NOT have been the same person. Vader would have been Obi-Wan's youngish pupil, Anakin a veteran Jedi & famed starpilot, and the three of them would have fought as a trio during the clone wars.
However, Vader would still be Luke's father, the result of a forbidden love affair between the dashing, roguish Jedi and Anakin's wife.
The Emperor would not be a Sith Lord. He wouldn't even be a Force-user. He'd have a Hitleresque obsession with the occult, however, and surround himself with sycophantic, Force-aware Bogan priests (thus his knowledge of disturbances in the Force, etc.). He'd also be unaware that Vader is Luke's real father.
Leia would not end up being Luke's sister.
Thoughts? Comments?
Last edited by Galvatron on 2006-05-27 11:43pm, edited 2 times in total.
1. Lose the Ewoks. Say what you will, and today I did just realise that they eat people (literally), but they did kiddify the whole film too much.
2. Show that its not the end more clearly, perhaps by showing the Imperial fleet retreating in a 'we'll be back' style.
3. Lose the Executor death scene, it was a bit lame. Have the Executor and Piett survive, and have him lead the retreat. Obviously, by the Executor surviving, you'd have to balance this to justify the fleet retreating at all in some way.
4. Have the Emperor put up more of a fight to Vader. Palpy kicked ass in RotS, he should in RotJ too.
5. Beef up the space battle somewhat, I want turbolaser broadsides, ships snapping in half, crippled drifters etc.
I'd keep the basic story line, but I'd beef it up a little. Remeber the thread saying ewoks could rip sombodys arms of (theoretically)?
or base delta zeros? and all the other cool starship battle stuff?
Add that
I'd get rid of the whole Death Star II theme; we got the galaxy's ultimate battle station in ANH and having another one pop up in ROTJ weakened the impact in my opinion. The assassination of the Emperor theme, however, should stay. I'm tempted to have the Rebel fleet assault Coruscant in the same fashion as Grievous' fleet but it seems a bit unlikely that the small Rebel battle group could fight its way through the Imperial defenses, knock down the shield, then BDZ a section of the city to kill the Emperor. So, let's have the Emperor inspect a frontier naval station that is home to a large squadron of the Imperial Navy about to conduct an offensive against several worlds that have openly declared for the Rebellion. The Rebel High Command sees the opportunity to strike, killing the Emperor and proving that it can defend itself.
Since the Rebel fleet can't seize control of local space long enough to land an army to disable the shield around the Imperial base like Vader did at Hoth, General Solo and his commandos are dispatched ahead of the fleet. The movie then follows the same course as ROTJ, with just a few changes.
1) Luke surrenders and does his thing with Vader and the Emperor, though the Emperor's death scene is a bit more dramatic.
2) There are no Ewoks but instead a demobilized unit of Clones War-era Republican militia that agree to assist the Rebels with a few men and assistance in getting into the base. This allows Han to break through superior Imperial defenses and destroy the shield generator.
3) In space, the Rebel fleet tackles the local Imperial squadron, only to find another Imperial squadron, led by the Executor, jumping out of hyperspace behind them. ("It's a trap!") Ackbar, knowing his outnumbered fleet will be destroyed if the two Imperial forces unite, throws his fleet at the Imperial reinforcements. The second Imperial force is destroyed. The commander of the first squadron, panics, then receives word that the Emperor has been killed, and orders a retreat. As the Imperial forces withdraw, we see Rebel turbolaser fire slamming into the Imperial base, quickly destroying it.
"Typical Canadian wimpiness. That's why you have the snowball and we have the H-bomb." Grandpa Simpson
Luke saves the day... The empire hangs out a sign on all their ships..."Gone Fishin', be back later". Just kidding....
Actually, I do think there could have been more ship to ship fighting. There was a lot of planet based time in TESB. But then all in all George Lucas did a really good job. So I wouldn't make many changes, but perhaps more incrediable computer generated fighting.
seeker of enlightenment wrote:Hypothetical. huh...
Luke saves the day... The empire hangs out a sign on all their ships..."Gone Fishin', be back later". Just kidding....
Actually, I do think there could have been more ship to ship fighting. There was a lot of planet based time in TESB. But then all in all George Lucas did a really good job. So I wouldn't make many changes, but perhaps more incrediable computer generated fighting.
Actually, I would love that they redo the Battle of Endor and start showing use where all the weapon ports on the Mon Cals are and what sort of caliber
seeker of enlightenment wrote:Hypothetical. huh...
Luke saves the day... The empire hangs out a sign on all their ships..."Gone Fishin', be back later". Just kidding....
Actually, I do think there could have been more ship to ship fighting. There was a lot of planet based time in TESB. But then all in all George Lucas did a really good job. So I wouldn't make many changes, but perhaps more incrediable computer generated fighting.
Actually, I would love that they redo the Battle of Endor and start showing use where all the weapon ports on the Mon Cals are and what sort of caliber
I agree. some shots following a fighter or fighters down the hull, seeing gun emplacements. Especially on the Mon Cal ships.
I'm aghast. Really, I've never really had a problem with RotJ. In fact I've always thought that, and just barely, it edged out ESB.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Since I assume I'm doing this with modern day technology, I set the film on Coruscant (it would have been nearly impossible to do the planet justice in 1983). In addition, Leia is not Luke's sister. Duh.
The opening crawl expresses that, despite the loss of the Hoth base, the rebellion is gaining strength with news of Imperial atrocities (against Alderaan and others) spreading causing Imperial Authority to decay in the Outer Rim and other isolated territories. Rebel agents are infiltrating Coruscant to prepare a decisive blow against the center of Imperial authority.
The film starts with Luke going back to Dagobah with pretty much the same results as ROTJ, except (again) Leia ain't his sister.
Next the whole posse is infiltrating the Coruscant, and taking a little detour to free Han Solo (Jabba the Hutt is based on Coruscant, naturally, because what the fuck kind of intergalactic crime lord would live on Tatooine?). They infiltrate Jabba's palace, free Han in a daring action sequence (incidentally killing Jabba), and escape. Boba Fett survives and makes an escape.
Meanwhile, Luke's use of his powers in the daring action sequence causes Vader and the Emperor to realize that he's on the planet. Under the command of Vader, stormtroopers begin tracking Luke--but in his obsession he ignores the other rebel groups. During the investigations of the stormtroopers, it should be made clear that there is significant tension between the regular imperial army and the stormies, as well as between the authorities in general and the population (i.e., the soldiers act cowed but bitter and maybe whisper about how it was better under the Republic, the civilians the same and act very unhelpfully and get brutalized by the stormies while the army stands by).
There's an exciting chase sequence, and Luke allows himself to be captured so the others can get away.
Luke is taken before the Emperor, while the rest of the posse (Leia, Han, Lando, Chewie, et al.) link up with General Madine who is in charge of the plan to infiltrate Coruscant. It is explained that the plan is to initiate riots on Coruscant to cover commando operations by the Rebel infiltrators. They plan to seize intelligence, blow up installations, and assassinate the Emperor. Since it's impossible to actually assault the Imperial Palace with the forces they have, it will be destroyed as part of a strong raid by the assembled Rebel fleet. Killing the Emperor will send the Empire into chaos. Han, Lando, and Chewie will lead one of the attacks on the shield generators that protect the planet. Leia, because of her unique status as the last surviving Alderaanian royal and a former senate official, will be patched into the broadcast networks by Rebel slicers with a message appealing to the people of Coruscant to rise up and throw off the Imperial yoke, aided by Rebel agents provocateur.
In Luke's part of the movie, he's hanging with the Emperor and Vader much like in ROTJ. They do some bullshitting and so on, and after a while the riots and commando strikes start and Luke is smug about it. Palpatine informs him that he had forseen the plan, but couldn't be sure which of the trillions of citizens of Coruscant were Rebel sympathizers. But now, the rebel agents and the dissidents are in the open, he has Luke, and the rebel fleet will be arriving to find that there is actually a secondary shield over the Imperial palace and that the Home Fleet is prepared for them. Uh-oh! Luke realizes that he's the only one who can kill the Emperor and finish the mission, so he goes for it--beginning the Luke-Vader duel.
Leia's speech is impassioned, tearful, and drives everybody wild. People are burning Imperial buildings, tearing down statues of Palpatine, and engaging in other mayhem. The stormtroopers and army turn out to stop them, but the rioters won't stop. However, when the order comes down to open fire on the crowds, the regular army refuses to comply. The stormtroopers under General Veers respond by placing the army and their officers under arrest for mutiny, which the army refuses to cooperate with, instead joining the rioters and shooting the stormies.
Meanwhile, Han and Lando's team successfully blows up the shield generator and since it seems to be working, the fleet is ordered in. But suddenly the secondary generator comes online, the imperial fleet appears, and Ackbar is trapped between the planet and the big guns. He orders them to concentrate fire on command ships and hope that the shields will still go down in time.
The commandos are getting shot up, Lando being killed and the others captured. The stormtroopers line the survivors up for execution in the street with the city all around in chaos, but they're rescued in the nick of time by a second group of commandos under Madine, assisted by mutinous Imperial Army troops.
Luke is in the palace dueling his pappy and losing, but eventually Vader taunts him with the knowledge that all his friends are going to die. This pushes Luke to give in to his anger, defeat Vader without killing him, and then calm down and refuse to finish him off. This causes Palpatine to have to get up out of his chair and zap the boy. Luke begs his dad for help, and Vader eventually decides that he's got to kill the Emperor and impales him with the lightsaber. Vader is dying, and only has enough time for his apotheosis (similar to that in ROTJ). Luke then gets on the Emperor's command console and broadcasts the information that the Emperor and Darth Vader have both been killed.
This leads to confusion among the stormtroopers and Imperial Fleet. Some units/ships stand down, others keep fighting, and some switch sides. But in the end, the rebel forces prevail. There's no gaudy celebration--lots of people are dead, and the fight isn't yet won.
The movie concludes with Luke cremating his father and then going to a meeting with Leia, Han, Chewie, the droids, and Mon Mothma. By way of exposition, Coruscant is effectively under rebel control, and with the Emperor dead and the capitol seized there are many sectors breaking away from the oppressive Empire and asking to join the Rebel Alliance. Now they have got to reinstitute the Republic. However, a large part of the galaxy has rallied behind the Emperor's Moffs, who are fighting among themselves to claim the vacant throne. It will be a long struggle, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Luke finishes the film by informing Mon Mothma that he plans to establish a Jedi Academy on Coruscant.
Of course, a lot of details are omitted but that's my outline.
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
Knife wrote:I'm aghast. Really, I've never really had a problem with RotJ. In fact I've always thought that, and just barely, it edged out ESB.
I did say I really wouldn't change much... There is really nothing that Lucas didn't think of, or show... But Hypothetically.... I may have added some more space battles, or longer space battles. I really thought the story line works quite well. I mean, I bought the VHS when they came out... I bought the Special Anniversary DVD's, if I thought they were in need of changing I wouldn't have bought them.
Not to mention the fact that he's actually on Tatooine in ANH. Then, at the end of TESB, Luke tells Lando that he's going to rendezvous with him there, presumably to rescue Han.
Luke starts off the movie by flying over to see Yoda. Yoda is dying but has just enough time left to admit that Vader is Lukes father. Luke doesn't take this camly. He throws a Anakin like tantrum and accuses him and Obi-Wan of lying to him to make him do their dirty work. Yoda tells Luke that this behaviour was what made Anakin the monster he became. Obi-Wan appears and tells him of the Jedi Temple masacre of RotS and tells him that while Vader didn't murder Luke's father he did kill his mother. Lukes reaction is to accuse Obi-wan of lying again. Obi-wan pleads with Luke to search his feelings and trust the force. At this point Yoda expires and fades out. Luke realises what he must have sounded like and is deeply ashamed that as Yoda died he was throwing a hissy fit. Luke settles down to meditate and sees a force vision of Anakin choaking Padame. Obi-wan appologises for mis-leading Luke. Luke tells Obi-wan that it's ok and he knows what he muct do, confront Vader, that Anakin still a part of him and if he can be saved. Obi-wan says that Anakin is gone, the path of the darkside is irrversable. Lukes says he atleast has to try, if he can't turn him he will kill Vader and his Emperor, but not out of anger.
Luke flys off to rejoin the Rebel Fleet. They are hatching a plan to rescue Han. Fearing reprisals from the Rebellion Jabba has retreated to Nar Shaddar and dug in. Mon Mothma and Nadine argue that Solo isn't important enough the Rebellion to risk and their only offensive strike fleet (It should be stressed that there are other fleets but they are guarding important rebel systems). Reiken (Sp?) and Leia take up the other end of the arguement, highlighting his contributions at Yavin and his history as a former Imperial Officer. The Rebel command take a vote on it and they pro-Han side win by the skin of their teeth. Mon Mothma makes a grand speech about this being the first democratic act of A New Republic. The Strike Fleet forms up and hypes off to Nar Shadda.
The scene cuts to a the Emperors throne room on Coruscant. Sly Moore and some Mas Amada can be seen in the back ground. Palpatine is giving Vader a dressing for losing Luke and not being able to find him. Vader pleads that he needs more time. Palpatine says that he's had enough time he will lead the hunt for Skywalker personally because Vaders feelings cannot be trusted. He reveals that a spy in the rebel command has told Imperial Intel about the attack on Nar Shaddar. Palpatine is seen flying his shuttle with Vader in tow to the orbiting Executor and the accompanying Death Fleet.
The Rebel Fleet arrives at Nar Shaddar and shatters the meger Hutt forces. Lando is piloting the Falcon and leading the fighter squads. Hundreds of troops transports spill from the Mon Cal Cruisers and Fleet Carriers. Luke is seen on the lead transport, and refered to by his troops as General Skywalker. The troops disembark outside the capital of Nar Shadda where Jabba is holed up. A Hoth style shield is surrounding the city and the Rebel armour and troops attack the Hutt forces. Boba Fett is seen leading Jabba's Mercenary Army. Eventually the Rebel forces get to Jabba's throne room. Luke says that Jabba will be set free as long as he sets Han loose from the carbonite and tucks his tail between his legs and fecks off never to be heard from again. Boba arms a thermal detonator and claims that unless Luke and his forces withdraw his blow the whole place up. Luke uses the Force to disarm the detonator and swifly decaps Fett.
At this point the Imperial Fleet decants from Hyperspace and deploys their Interdiction Cruisers. The Rebel Fleet is not onlly trapped in system but they are stuck between the Imperial Fleet and Nar Shaddar. Several Mon Cal Cruisers are lost, as are several Star Destroyers.
Suddenly the Imperial Fleet asks for a truce, their commander (Palpatine) wants to speak to Ackbar. He says that if Skywalker is handed over the Rebel fleet can go. Ackbar consults Skywalker who has been celebrating Hans release with Leia, Solo, and Chewie. Solo and Leia are very much togeather. Luke agrees to board a shuttle and be taken to the Executor. Vader is aboard the shuttle and they have their father son moment ah-la the original RotJ.
The next scene is based on the throne room/CO Ready Room of the Executor. Palpatine laughs at Lukes foolishness and orders Piet to resume hostilities. This drives Luke to pull his Saber and swing for Palpatine. Vader parries and so begins the duel. Luke backs off and refuses to fight, Vader goads him saying his is a coward and weakling like all Lightsiders, he is a dissapointment and will be purged just like the Jedi he took out on Coruscant all those years ago. Luke realises he's not strong enough to beat Vader, yet and tries to retreat. Palpatine force seals the chamber. Luke goes into hiding. Vader takes his place at Palpatines side while Palpatine goads Luke. He calls Yoda a green freak who could only train failures and says that he personally bitch slapped him ages ago. Next Palpatine turns to Vader, Luke has shielded himself from their senses and he could be anywhere. Palpatine then continues his tirade, he gloats that he twisted the Chosen One of the Jedi and made him kill his only friends Obi-wan and Padame. Luke springs up from hiding and goes for Palpatine, Palpatine snatches Vaders Saber and defends himself but Luke beats him back. Palpatine is defeated but before Luke can finish him Vader force pulls the saber from Lukes hand. Luke askes Vader what he's gonna do. Kill luke himself or let Palpatine do it. Vader has a different idea "I'm going to do something I should have done twenty years ago", he ignites lukes lightsaber and advances on Palpatine. Palpatine shoots lightning at Vader shorting out his suit but Vader has enough strength to hurl Lukes saber at Palpatine burying it deep in Palpatines chest. Luke gathers his lightsaber and heads for the turbolift.
Outside the battle rages. Fighters zip arround the ruined hulks of Star Cruisers and Destroyers. Ackbar orders all ships to destroy the Interdictors at all costs, the Fleet has to escape. Suddenly a message is broadcast on all holonet frequencies. Luke is on the Executor claiming that Vader and the Emperor are dead, the bodies of several storm troopers litter the floor. and Admiral Piett has formally surrendered his sidearm. Piett orders the Interdictors to power down and the ships to fall into formation. One ships calls Piett a traitor to the Empire and fires on the Executor starting a whole bloody brawl. Imperial ships fire on other Imperial ships. The few remaining Rebel ships try and get out of the way. Executor suffers a crippling hit on it's reactor bulb, the ship will blow in less than 5 minutes.
In the melee Han his been reunited with the Falcon and is trying to dogfight it's way through the Imperial Fleet to rescue Luke. Rogue Squad fly cover through almost suicidal swarms of Ties. Eventually he makes it to the Docking bay of the crippled Command Ship. Luke is there greet him carrying the body of Vader on his shoulder. Solo asks him what the hell his playing at and like explains that Vader was his father and he died killing the Emperor. Solo agrees to allow the corpse on his ship, grudgingly and they punch it out of the bay. Just in time for the Executor to explode. The remaining Imperial ships then start ramdomly to retreat to hyperspace.
Ackbar broadcasts to all his forces that it's over, for now. Rebels are seen cheering all around the main city of Nar shadda. Fireworks and that kinda thing. Basically the ending of ROTJ minus the Ewoks.
Not only is the Emperor totally unaware that Luke is, in fact, Vader's child (hence "the son of Skywalker..."), so was Obi-Wan! The only ones who knew the full truth were Anakin's wife and Yoda. Even Vader wasn't sure until he finally met Luke on Cloud City and, through the Force, "knew it to be true."
"That boy is our last hope."
"No, there is another."
Only then does Obi-Wan find out, from Yoda, that not only is Luke actually Vader's son, but also that Anakin's wife gave birth to twins (on Dagobah, hence Luke's familiarity).
I believe Lucas originally intended the forest planet to be Kashyyyk, with Wookies, instead of Endor with Ewoks. Also, have the stormtroopers' armor painted green, in the same scheme that the troopers in RotS had.. to solidify the connection between the two.
A forest of giant wroshyr trees and hordes of massive Wookies smashing troopers left and right.
Perhaps it's my lack of creativity, but that's the only change I'd want.
"..history has shown the best defense against heavy cavalry are pikemen, so aircraft should mount lances on their noses and fly in tight squares to fend off bombers". - RedImperator
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
The problem with using Kashyyyk is that it's pretty unbelievable to have the Wookie homeworld as the planet where the Death Star II is being built. A home planet for a major species just isn't secure enough for secret construction.
Now, you can have Wookie's on Endor, perhaps as a long-lost colony or a primitive civilization that remains from a crashed ship or something, but the problem with that is that it will require exposition which really won't be relevant to anyone watching the movie in theatres, only fans like ourselves with over two decades of reflection and analysis time- and hence will make the movie drag.
Or have the Death Star be built over Coruscant, which would be pretty difficult in terms of keeping them secret as well (unless they're not secret at all, requiring more changes to the plot).
One of the good things about SW is that it keeps to KISS pretty well. I've come up with lots of ideas for RotJ but none of them pass that test. Ideas like having the Imperial fleet win the space battle but call a truce after the Rebels after the Death Star is destroyed, or have Vader give the order for the Imperial fleet to stand down before he dies, which I think would be great, would require too much exposition to make it work, and it just doesn't fit the pace (I've even toyed with constitutional-based arguments where the death of the Emperor results in an automatic reversion to Senate rule, but that's totally out of the question for both reasons of pace and the fact that the Senate was dissolved).
Vympel wrote:The problem with using Kashyyyk is that it's pretty unbelievable to have the Wookie homeworld as the planet where the Death Star II is being built. A home planet for a major species just isn't secure enough for secret construction.
Who's says the Wookie's are a major species? I don't recall anyone in ANH or ESB being familiar with them asides from Han.
Personally, I wouldn't bring Han back. He was a scoundrel who had made good, and had little left to do.
All through RoTJ he felt like he was tacked on. In my redux, Lando and Leia have the Falcon and are part of the Rebellion. Of course, there's some romantic tension. Whether it gets resolved is beyond me right now.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Gandalf wrote:Personally, I wouldn't bring Han back. He was a scoundrel who had made good, and had little left to do.
Just have him in the clutches of Jabba the Hutt forever? That's just ... nope, intolerable.
All through RoTJ he felt like he was tacked on. In my redux, Lando and Leia have the Falcon and are part of the Rebellion. Of course, there's some romantic tension. Whether it gets resolved is beyond me right now.
Bah, have Han in the Falcon, and put Lando ... well ... tack him on somewhere.
Vympel wrote:Bah, have Han in the Falcon, and put Lando ... well ... tack him on somewhere.
The ground mission. Where he dies a heroic and noble death.
This way, we can have Lando die (as he was going to originally) but keep the Falcon in one piece.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Vympel wrote:The problem with using Kashyyyk is that it's pretty unbelievable to have the Wookie homeworld as the planet where the Death Star II is being built. A home planet for a major species just isn't secure enough for secret construction.
Who's says the Wookie's are a major species? I don't recall anyone in ANH or ESB being familiar with them asides from Han.
It was mentioned somewhere that Kashyyk was near to Core Worlds and we observe Wookie Senators in the prequels.
Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know, the piper's calling you to join him
Qwerty 42 wrote:
It was mentioned somewhere that Kashyyk was near to Core Worlds and we observe Wookie Senators in the prequels.
But we don't have the prequels do we? We're just basing this on ANH and ESB. So if Vympel want to change RotJ so that the build the DSII over the backwater planet of Kashyyk, it wouldn't contradict either of the previous two movies, would it?
One of the scripts for RotJ had Lando and The Falcon blow up in the escape fra the DSII - Lando finishing words was " i promissed to bring her back without a scrach" - i think it was a rather nice endning for both Lando and the Falcon.
There Lives More Faith In Honest Doubt,Belive Me,Than In Half The Creeds. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."
Just kidding....
Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know, the piper's calling you to join him
But we don't have the prequels do we? We're just basing this on ANH and ESB. So if Vympel want to change RotJ so that the build the DSII over the backwater planet of Kashyyk, it wouldn't contradict either of the previous two movies, would it?