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I just noticed that when Luke jumps onto the catwalk aboard the DS2 he has the high ground. And instead of making the same mistake he made against Obi-Wan on Mustafar, Vader simply tosses his lightsaber, breaks the catwalk and denies Luke his favorable position.

It's a cool bit of retrospectiveness, though I suspect it was unintentional.
Are there any other bits that probably unintentionally make a certain sense now that the saga is complete?

Makes a bit of sense actually.

Here we have Vader offered the same position he foolishly took in his youth and he makes the more cautious attack, though he does toss away his weapon to do it. Of course, Luke knows nothing about how the battle with Obi Wan turned out. He was simply attempting to give his father a chance to turn himself arounf.

In that way it is a very similar situation.

One mentioned in the AOTC commentary:

Boba Fett knew that Han had simply hidden on the star destroyer, because he had seen that trick before, with Obi Wan in the asteroid field.

AK_Jedi wrote:One mentioned in the AOTC commentary:

Boba Fett knew that Han had simply hidden on the star destroyer, because he had seen that trick before, with Obi Wan in the asteroid field.

I heard that commentary too, but I don't think it makes sense. If Boba saw Obi hide on the asteroid, why didn't he tell Jango? All Boba could have known about the situation was that Obi fooled them somehow. Seems like a pretty big stretch that he could use that experience to conclude that the MF didn't go into hyperspace but actually hid on the hull of the Star Destroyer.

Dooey Jo wrote:

AK_Jedi wrote:One mentioned in the AOTC commentary:

Boba Fett knew that Han had simply hidden on the star destroyer, because he had seen that trick before, with Obi Wan in the asteroid field.

I heard that commentary too, but I don't think it makes sense. If Boba saw Obi hide on the asteroid, why didn't he tell Jango? All Boba could have known about the situation was that Obi fooled them somehow. Seems like a pretty big stretch that he could use that experience to conclude that the MF didn't go into hyperspace but actually hid on the hull of the Star Destroyer.

Well may he figured it out after Obi Wan turned up alive later?

Dooey Jo wrote:

AK_Jedi wrote:One mentioned in the AOTC commentary:

Boba Fett knew that Han had simply hidden on the star destroyer, because he had seen that trick before, with Obi Wan in the asteroid field.

I heard that commentary too, but I don't think it makes sense. If Boba saw Obi hide on the asteroid, why didn't he tell Jango? All Boba could have known about the situation was that Obi fooled them somehow. Seems like a pretty big stretch that he could use that experience to conclude that the MF didn't go into hyperspace but actually hid on the hull of the Star Destroyer.

Or they had it pegged and rather than risk engaging in space they decided to lay a trap on Geonosis, where they had a shitload of battle droids and droidekas to back them up.

Isolder74 wrote:Makes a bit of sense actually.

Here we have Vader offered the same position he foolishly took in his youth and he makes the more cautious attack, though he does toss away his weapon to do it. Of course, Luke knows nothing about how the battle with Obi Wan turned out. He was simply attempting to give his father a chance to turn himself arounf.

In that way it is a very similar situation.

In not quite the same vein; Luke got to kick Vader down the stair after a bit of dueling too, taking the high ground. I wouldn't be surprised if Vader had Mustafar on his mind as he angerly came back up the stairs and reengaged Luke...."It is unwise to lower your defenses."

They had Vader throw his Lightsaber in "Dark Lord", and the Jedi Master there was like "WTF?!? He AIMED IT?"

It would appear prior to that, it was a rare ability outside of powerful Jedi masters like Yoda

I heard that commentary too, but I don't think it makes sense. If Boba saw Obi hide on the asteroid, why didn't he tell Jango? All Boba could have known about the situation was that Obi fooled them somehow. Seems like a pretty big stretch that he could use that experience to conclude that the MF didn't go into hyperspace but actually hid on the hull of the Star Destroyer.

It could be that when Obi was captured, the logs on his fighter were checked and they found where he hid.

Solauren wrote:They had Vader throw his Lightsaber in "Dark Lord", and the Jedi Master there was like "WTF?!? He AIMED IT?"

It would appear prior to that, it was a rare ability outside of powerful Jedi masters like Yoda

I don't think 'rare ability' is right, just un-orthodox tactic. Afterall it isn't exactly anything that we couldn't suppose they could do given what we have seen them do.

I think I heard someone say (possibly George himself) that one of the objections against Jedi throwing their sabres, was that it left them more vulnerable and distracted.

VT-16 wrote:I think I heard someone say (possibly George himself) that one of the objections against Jedi throwing their sabres, was that it left them more vulnerable and distracted.

That's obvious, but if Solauren is right about the way the Jedi Master reacted then that is just fucking stupid.

VT-16 wrote:I think I heard someone say (possibly George himself) that one of the objections against Jedi throwing their sabres, was that it left them more vulnerable and distracted.

This looks correct: the Jedi will need to focus on manipulating the sabre's flight path, and will be unable to defend himself from any sudden attacks until the sabre returns. Also note that, in Dark Lord, when Darth Vader throws his sabre, he's behind a closing force shield (IIRC), so there's no danger to his person to consider; similarly, when he throws at Luke, Luke is vowing not to attack him and is actually running away from him, so he can reasonably conclude he's safe from his son. In both cases, the circumstances are extenuating.

Another factor that may have played into Shryne's (the Jedi Master in question) astonishment is that it was a pretty long-distance throw. He was still inside the grounds of Alderaan's royal palace, while his target was standing on a landing pad some distance away (unfortunately, the book doesn't say quite how far).

Oh for crying out loud people!

Can we please just admit that it was a stupid moment from an otherwise good book? It doesn't negate the rest of the book!

Reasons why it's stupid;

TPM; Qui-Gon manipulates a chance die so fucking accurately that it cannot be detected by the naked eye.

TPM; Darth Maul picks up and hurls a crate (that is to the side and behind him) and bashes agains the door open mechanism (behind him) while looking at Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan infront of him (why he just didn't activate the door mechanism is unknown).

TPM; Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are clearly affecting the droid's internal circuitry when they're using Force Push - which they cannot see.

And that's just from one of the movies, so why the fuck is the Jedi Master shocked that Darth Vader can aim his fucking lightsabre? It. Is. Silly.

Crown wrote: TPM; Qui-Gon manipulates a chance die so fucking accurately that it cannot be detected by the naked eye.

The die was right in front of him and moved all of a few centimetres.

TPM; Darth Maul picks up and hurls a crate (that is to the side and behind him) and bashes agains the door open mechanism (behind him) while looking at Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan infront of him (why he just didn't activate the door mechanism is unknown).

It was a piece of droid crap, actually, not a crate- in any event, it was still straight, and only over a distance of a metre or so.

TPM; Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are clearly affecting the droid's internal circuitry when they're using Force Push - which they cannot see.

Well, yes, but again, it's right in front of them and requires no especially fine control over long distance.

And that's just from one of the movies, so why the fuck is the Jedi Master shocked that Darth Vader can aim his fucking lightsabre? It. Is. Silly.

It was a very long, complicated throw that struck two targets after passing through a just closing gate, and Shryne couldn't influence it's flight for shit. That's what was impressive about it.

And it's not that much of a reaction. The book only says initially he thought he had hurled it in anger, then grasped, in awe, that Vader had aimed. That's it.

Vympel wrote:

Crown wrote: TPM; Qui-Gon manipulates a chance die so fucking accurately that it cannot be detected by the naked eye.

The die was right in front of him and moved all of a few centimetres.

That would be the whole point of 'fine control' there Vymp,

To quote Mike;

Darth Wong wrote:Jedi Knights have much finer telekinetic control than was previously suspected. Although it had long been known that a Jedi Knight could easily lift and throw large, heavy objects such as starfighters or machinery components (as seen in TESB), it is a revelation that a Jedi Knight's control over the Force is fine enough that he could potentially clean out Las Vegas. The manipulation of Watto's chance cube may not seem stupendous compared to lifting starfighters or large boulders, but try to imagine waiting for a rolling, bouncing chance cube. Even if we assume that you are invisible (so no one will detect your movements) and already crouched down in position, you will have a lot of trouble making that cube look like it is naturally bouncing into the desired orientation.

Vympel wrote:

Crown wrote:TPM; Darth Maul picks up and hurls a crate (that is to the side and behind him) and bashes agains the door open mechanism (behind him) while looking at Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan infront of him (why he just didn't activate the door mechanism is unknown).

It was a piece of droid crap, actually, not a crate- in any event, it was still straight, and only over a distance of a metre or so.

And? He aimed it without looking.

Vympel wrote:

Crown wrote:TPM; Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are clearly affecting the droid's internal circuitry when they're using Force Push - which they cannot see.

Well, yes, but again, it's right in front of them and requires no especially fine control over long distance.

What are you serious? There is no line of sight on this, at all. It's like a switch board with an opaque cover, how do I know which switch I'm switching?

Vympel wrote:

Crown wrote:And that's just from one of the movies, so why the fuck is the Jedi Master shocked that Darth Vader can aim his fucking lightsabre? It. Is. Silly.

It was a very long, complicated throw that struck two targets after passing through a just closing gate, and Shryne couldn't influence it's flight for shit. That's what was impressive about it.

Vader chokes people at longer range than that, with nothing more than a view screen. A 18 year old boy with no exposure to the Force at all can actually see a remote after only a couple of hours of practice with Obi-Wan (Legend) Kenobi.

Vympel wrote:And it's not that much of a reaction. The book only says initially he thought he had hurled it in anger, then grasped, in awe, that Vader had aimed. That's it.

If it was just a reaction to the fact that Shryne couldn't influence it off its course, then that would have been acceptable - afterall being able to go toe to toe with the Force manifested isn't something that any old Jedi can do - it requires a special breed of ass kicker. But the quote actually makes it sound that he was astounded that Vader aimed the fucker ... what, are you kidding me?

I stand by my initial reaction;

"I don't think 'rare ability' is right, just un-orthodox tactic. Afterall it isn't exactly anything that we couldn't suppose they could do given what we have seen them do."

Isolder74 wrote:Well may he figured it out after Obi Wan turned up alive later?

Maybe, but why conclude from seeing him alive that he must have hid on an asteroid and shut down the ship's power? Is that the only way of hiding from the sensors or the only or most likely way of fooling Jango?

Darth Fanboy wrote:Or they had it pegged and rather than risk engaging in space they decided to lay a trap on Geonosis, where they had a shitload of battle droids and droidekas to back them up.

Why not just blow up the asteroid with a missile or seismic charge and be done with it? Besides, the movie strongly suggest that they did not see through Obi's little trick.

Consider this, the dice example may indicate how good Qui Gon is with that sort of thing.

Breaking none visible circuit cards is not all that spectacular. It does not take alot of finess to break things if you know the basic layout of the insides of the droids. I could do the same with a computer by snapping the motherboard in two. It does not take me much to pull on the right places, and if its a different layout I can still bounce parts around and get the same result.

The impressive thing is in the RofTS novel Obi Wan messes with parts of his fighter. He messes with the circuits to make it work again after its damaged by the buxx droids

Dooey Jo wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:Well may he figured it out after Obi Wan turned up alive later?

Maybe, but why conclude from seeing him alive that he must have hid on an asteroid and shut down the ship's power? Is that the only way of hiding from the sensors or the only or most likely way of fooling Jango?

Darth Fanboy wrote:Or they had it pegged and rather than risk engaging in space they decided to lay a trap on Geonosis, where they had a shitload of battle droids and droidekas to back them up.

Why not just blow up the asteroid with a missile or seismic charge and be done with it? Besides, the movie strongly suggest that they did not see through Obi's little trick.

Two things perhaps. They captured him and his ship so they could check the memory banks of the ship and the droid to see what happened. They realizing how he did it could have come after locking Obi up. After that they have all the time in the world to figure out how he got away.

fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me

Consider that for the sabre throw in question, Vader had to 1) maintain it's flightpath, because it would have to have been moving at very high (bullet-like) speed to get there on a ballistic path, 2) apply torque while it is slicing through its targets, 3) guide the flight through multiple targets, 4) for many models of lightsaber, he'd have to keep it on by countering the failsafe(s), and 5) reasonably expect to be able to do all of the above despite the efforts of the Jedi present. It's number 5 that, I think, led to the awe in question. It would be very unusual to see a Force user aim his weapon at a target with any number of ways to negate that tactic. It was not a matter of merely aiming a throw.

No its just stupid. I could name over a dozen Dark Horse comics where in jedi fling there sabres quite often. Yoda did it in ROTS, Luke did it in SOTE, They do it all the time in the games, and its a combat skill in the RPG. Qui-lan Vos disabled a landed starship with an uber long distance acurate sabre throw, and the damn thing came whipping back like a boomerang. It's just bad writing, but SOD it was either the distance or this particular master wasn't all that verses in sabre combat.

Spartan wrote:It's just bad writing, but SOD it was either the distance or this particular master wasn't all that verses in sabre combat.

The book went into a small amount of detail (in the beginning in particular) about how, despite being a Master, he wasn't that strong a Force user. The only thing he really excelled at, IIRC, was detecting and IDing other Force users.

Civil War Man wrote:

Spartan wrote:It's just bad writing, but SOD it was either the distance or this particular master wasn't all that verses in sabre combat.

The book went into a small amount of detail (in the beginning in particular) about how, despite being a Master, he wasn't that strong a Force user. The only thing he really excelled at, IIRC, was detecting and IDing other Force users.

What the FUCK is wrong with the EU? I had to sit through 'Scout', and now this shit? Oh for crying out loud!

Crown wrote:

Civil War Man wrote:The book went into a small amount of detail (in the beginning in particular) about how, despite being a Master, he wasn't that strong a Force user. The only thing he really excelled at, IIRC, was detecting and IDing other Force users.

What the FUCK is wrong with the EU? I had to sit through 'Scout', and now this shit? Oh for crying out loud!

... I don't see the problem. Becoming a Jedi Master has nothing to do with sheer power and everything to do with following the Code. That's why Anakin, the most powerful Force-User in known history, never became one.