Why would BDZing render a planet useless?

[kojikun]

I don't see why this would happen. If you turn the entire surface of a world to molten rock, that would make it even MORE useful because now its in an easilly pumped and filtered form. The useless garbage (biological matter, dirt, etc) on top would be liquified and burned such that it most likely is broken down into much simpler molecules and becomes less of a task to seperate from the surface layers of rock. I don't know, maybe I'm way off in thinking that liquid rock is easier to extract usuable materials from, but I would think that even if its not, the surface would cool to solidity soon after the BDZ.

[Damaramu]

Useless in the way of being uninhabitable, I think.

[DPDarkPrimus]

It's DBZing a planet.

And in most cases, I don't think that most cultures that could DBZ a planet have the ability to manipulate a planet-sized mass of molten rock, and that most that could do so wouldn't bother to.

[Master of Ossus]

It's DBZing a planet.

And in most cases, I don't think that most cultures that could DBZ a planet have the ability to manipulate a planet-sized mass of molten rock, and that most that could do so wouldn't bother to.

It's actually BDZ (Base Delta Zero). In any case, it renders the planet useless because even SW technology cannot terraform a planet like that quickly. In fact, it is easier to take an uninhabitable planet and terraform that, then it is to terraform a BDZed planet.

[His Divine Shadow]

Useless in the way that the crust is melted, thats bad enough for me.

[Connor MacLeod]

BDZ's destroy virtually EVERYTHING on the planet - resources, people, structures, droids - you name it. We're talking about killing EVERY SINGLE living thing on a planet, destroying every single food supply, mineral resource, forest, ocean, atmosphere, etc. Its the most complete, and total sort of destruction you can get outside of a World Devastator or Death STar.

When a BDZ is initiated, its done so to not only make a statement, but make sure that noone can make use of said planet. When they say USELESS, they mean it in every sense of the word.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

[Darth Servo]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

Isn't the whole "crust to slag" thing just an easy way of calculating the amount of energy required?

[Master of Ossus]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

Isn't the whole "crust to slag" thing just an easy way of calculating the amount of energy required?

Generally, "Warsies" are very conservative in their approaches. For Darth Wong's calculations, he used a one meter, uniform melt. If we assume that the entire crust of the planet was melted, we would require thousands of times more energy--particularly if there were oceans on this particular world.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

AFAIK Molten Rock isn't that useful. OTOH, a intact planet is.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

Isn't the whole "crust to slag" thing just an easy way of calculating the amount of energy required?

No. A BDZ destroys EVERYTHING, which includes assets of production as well as things like fisheries and such. That requires inflicting damage to some pretty extreme depths, since some things can be buried pretty deep underground (Adumari factories in Starfighters of Adumar, for example, were several dozen or several hundred meters belowground IIRC)

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

Isn't the whole "crust to slag" thing just an easy way of calculating the amount of energy required?

No. A BDZ destroys EVERYTHING, which includes assets of production as well as things like fisheries and such. That requires inflicting damage to some pretty extreme depths, since some things can be buried pretty deep underground (Adumari factories in Starfighters of Adumar, for example, were several dozen or several hundred meters belowground IIRC)

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

Isn't the whole "crust to slag" thing just an easy way of calculating the amount of energy required?

Generally, "Warsies" are very conservative in their approaches. For Darth Wong's calculations, he used a one meter, uniform melt. If we assume that the entire crust of the planet was melted, we would require thousands of times more energy--particularly if there were oceans on this particular world.

Well its more than conservatism. Mike had to point this out repeatedly to Edam in his BDZ page and in the debate - BDZ's are TOTAL destruction - more than just rendering a planet uninhabitable, but destroying its ability to produce anything, or to be of any use to the opposition.

[Darth Servo]

Oh yes, and its only the upper part of the crust thats turned to molten slag IIRC, not the whole thing. Still, thats easily at least several km worth of surface

Isn't the whole "crust to slag" thing just an easy way of calculating the amount of energy required?

No. A BDZ destroys EVERYTHING, which includes assets of production as well as things like fisheries and such. That requires inflicting damage to some pretty extreme depths, since some things can be buried pretty deep underground (Adumari factories in Starfighters of Adumar, for example, were several dozen or several hundred meters belowground IIRC)

I know that. Read what I was responding to. My point was that melting the crust is just an easy way of determining a lower limit for the required energy, not the specifics of what a BDZ actually involves.

[beyond hope]

I'm sure if you tried *really* hard, it might be possible to reclaim *some* of the resources on a world that's been BDZ'ed. Point being, why would you bother when you've got a whole galaxy's worth of resources to draw upon? I think, if I remember right, that Spector of the Past mentions some of the fires on Caamas burning *decades* after the original bombardment... not exactly what I'd call a hospitable environment. If the asteroid scene is a good indication, some of the resources will also be vaporized by the bombardment.

[Connor MacLeod]

I know that. Read what I was responding to. My point was that melting the crust is just an easy way of determining a lower limit for the required energy, not the specifics of what a BDZ actually involves.

Its not meant directly for quantification purposes. It was meant to highlight the degree of destructiveness required to accomplish a BDZ objective (you arent told just how deep "upper crust" is, so that hampers quantification)

[Darth Wong]

Possible reasons why a BDZ'd planet is more difficult to terraform than a barren planet, even many decades after the fact:

1. Toxic chemicals in the ground and in the atmosphere. Not all toxic chemicals break down easily; organic waste does, but there are lots of things which are toxic to you besides organic waste.
2. Extreme radioactivity; very energetic ionizing and neutron radiation may produce a lot of unstable isotopes. In sufficient quantity, they could make a planet worthless for terraforming until many decades or perhaps even centuries or millenia pass.
3. No atmosphere: if the atmosphere is blown away by the bombardment, it will obviously be more work to terraform the planet than a barren one. You would have to bring your own atmosphere in freighters.

Obviously, all of this precludes any idiotic "BDZ is just targeting of population centres" bullshit, but that's already a given, Edam and Darkstar's dishonesty aside.

[Connor MacLeod]

Possible reasons why a BDZ'd planet is more difficult to terraform than a barren planet, even many decades after the fact:

1. Toxic chemicals in the ground and in the atmosphere. Not all toxic chemicals break down easily; organic waste does, but there are lots of things which are toxic to you besides organic waste.
2. Extreme radioactivity; very energetic ionizing and neutron radiation may produce a lot of unstable isotopes. In sufficient quantity, they could make a planet worthless for terraforming until many decades or perhaps even centuries or millenia pass.
3. No atmosphere: if the atmosphere is blown away by the bombardment, it will obviously be more work to terraform the planet than a barren one. You would have to bring your own atmosphere in freighters.

Obviously, all of this precludes any idiotic "BDZ is just targeting of population centres" bullshit, but that's already a given, Edam and Darkstar's dishonesty aside.

Any of which I'm presuming could and probably would occur in a full-scale BDZ operation (considering the "total elimination" requirements for all objectives like population, resources, facilities, etc...)

[BenRG]

This is way off topic, but I was recalling the cover story given to Qui Zux and the other engineers at the Maw Shipyards about the intended use of the Death Star superlaser and the World Devastators.

• The DS superlaser was a mining tool for getting to the large, metal-rich cores of Mercury-type planets by shattering the useless silicate crust and mantle.
• The World Devastators were terraforming or planetary mining tools

I just wonder if anyone has thought of creating a mining behemoth using those concepts, a Superlaser cannon mounted axially on a huge World Devastator tender ship. The question is whether the proceeds from the mineral extraction and refining could cover the construction costs of this monster factory-ship.

Back on topic, the big problem for anyone wishing to develop a BDZed planet is the amount of environmental polutants (radioactive and otherwise) that slagging the surface would create. Additionally, the post-assault atmostphere would be corrosive and probably would be filled with unstable high-velocity winds and massive ionisation inbalances (super-sized lighting bolts). Finally, as the surface would be mostly molten lava, there would be real logistical problems involved with making use of any exposed mineral deposits.

[Slartibartfast]

It's DBZing a planet.

For what, DragonBallZing a planet?

[BenRG]

It's DBZing a planet.

For what, DragonBallZing a planet?

Hmm... I suspect either a rogue Typo or maybe even an attempt at a joke. What is it? Will we ever know?

[kojikun]

Ok granted you couldnt live on the planet, but its mineral wealth doesnt cease to exist. The molten state only facilitates its use. The empire needs resources from somewhere, and many kilometres of molten crust would provide plenty of material thats more easilly gotten then mining. That is, ofcourse, assuming that mining asteroids is not a common enough thing or that its so common that its exhausted all available asteroids.

But that still doesnt make a BDZed planet ENTIRELY useless.

[BenRG]

Ok granted you couldnt live on the planet, but its mineral wealth doesnt cease to exist. The molten state only facilitates its use. The empire needs resources from somewhere, and many kilometres of molten crust would provide plenty of material thats more easilly gotten then mining.

This presumes that Imperial mining equipment can withstand the surface environment of the subject planet, which would be nasty enough to melt lead and do aggravating things to most plastics. Remember that the surface would completely consist of superfluid molten magma.

I can believe that a shielded vehicle could withstand such conditions, but you would have to lower the particle shields to pump magma into the machine for filtration (which I assume is what you are referring to). It would be a considerable engineering challenge to build a machine that could withstand these working conditions. It would probably be cheaper to look for asteroids unless it was a particularly resource-poor corner of the galaxy.

[Cpt_Frank]

This is way off topic, but I was recalling the cover story given to Qui Zux and the other engineers at the Maw Shipyards about the intended use of the Death Star superlaser and the World Devastators.

• The DS superlaser was a mining tool for getting to the large, metal-rich cores of Mercury-type planets by shattering the useless silicate crust and mantle.
• The World Devastators were terraforming or planetary mining tools

I just wonder if anyone has thought of creating a mining behemoth using those concepts, a Superlaser cannon mounted axially on a huge World Devastator tender ship. The question is whether the proceeds from the mineral extraction and refining could cover the construction costs of this monster factory-ship.

Considering that according to our current knowledge the DS was based on unfinished shematics made by the geonosians and finished by Qui and Bevel it's unlikely it was ever really considered a mining tool.

[kojikun]

--This presumes that Imperial mining equipment can withstand the surface environment of the subject planet, which would be nasty enough to melt lead and do aggravating things to most plastics. Remember that the surface would completely consist of superfluid molten magma.--

You're joking right? Modern graphite refractory cruicibles routinely get filled with molten steel. In order to melt steel you need to be able to contain it without it melting and foundries do this every second of every minute of every day. If someone had the will they could build a boat that could float in a sea of lava for qutie some time.

The Empire is how many years more advanced then humans? 25,000? 100,000? They build moons? They do all these things and yet they cant make a material indefinitely capable of withstanding 5,000 degrees? Impossible.

--I can believe that a shielded vehicle could withstand such conditions, but you would have to lower the particle shields to pump magma into the machine for filtration (which I assume is what you are referring to). It would be a considerable engineering challenge to build a machine that could withstand these working conditions. It would probably be cheaper to look for asteroids unless it was a particularly resource-poor corner of the galaxy.--

Two words: Death Star. The ability to build such a large object requires technologies that would make liquid metal transportation look like childs play.