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On Luke's 17th Birthday. Since the Academy has accepted him, he goes forth. Obi Wan being out of the loop doesn't find out Luke has left till its too late.

So how does Luke fare in the Empire's Service? And will he catch the attention of Lord Vader?

Wanderer wrote:On Luke's 17th Birthday. Since the Academy has accepted him, he goes forth. Obi Wan being out of the loop doesn't find out Luke has left till its too late.

So how does Luke fare in the Empire's Service? And will he catch the attention of Lord Vader?

This has been disscused before, and the question is a big yes, since Anakin Skywalker was so famous then anyone named "Skywalker" would be looked into.

Rather like Someone named "Joe Hitler" enlisting after 1946 in the Soviet Army.

No historical example can be taken to far.

Of course, in a galaxy with so enormous a population, there are probably many Skywalkers. The name would raise a red flag, but not necessarily mean anything.

If anyone finds out he has Force potential on top of that, though, he gets an interview with Lord Vader in no time flat, and afterwards is probably quietly groomed into an apprentice.

I would think that he would join the Rebels as fast as possible after training.

Gustav32Vasa wrote:I would think that he would join the Rebels as fast as possible after training.

Assuming he gets that far.

Gustav32Vasa wrote:I would think that he would join the Rebels as fast as possible after training.

I think he would excell so much he might end up graduating early and sent to Vader's fleet, though not necessarily his flagship. But, close enough perhaps that in a training excercise Vader notices a pilot must be strong in the Force in order to last against him.

Anguirus wrote:Of course, in a galaxy with so enormous a population, there are probably many Skywalkers. The name would raise a red flag, but not necessarily mean anything.

Additionally, I don't think anyone beyond Obi-Wan, Yoda, the Lars's, and Palpatine himself knew that Darth Vader was actually Anakin Skywalker of Clone Wars fame; at least, that's what Dark Lord seems to suggest. Thus, though his name might sound familiar to Clone War vets, it might very well be that Luke could get through the Academy without being noticed.

However, yes, when his Force-abilites were discovered, he'd earn an express ticket to Courscant.

Wanderer wrote:Obi Wan being out of the loop doesn't find out Luke has left till its too late.

Which raises a further question... why was Obi-Wan out of the loop, anyway? Why was he living on Tatooine, a days hike from Luke's place for so long without training him? If he had taken Luke as a Padawan from the very start, trained him in secret, they could have gone after Vader together.

Was Obi-Wan afraid? That seems a little far-fetched.

Kotooshu wrote:Which raises a further question... why was Obi-Wan out of the loop, anyway? Why was he living on Tatooine, a days hike from Luke's place for so long without training him? If he had taken Luke as a Padawan from the very start, trained him in secret, they could have gone after Vader together.

Was Obi-Wan afraid? That seems a little far-fetched.

I wouldn't say that calling Obi-Wan "out of the loop" would be an accurate assessment of the situation. Just because I don't stop by my mom's house everyday doesn't mean that I'm out of the loop. I'm sure that Obi-Wan has contacts in all the towns around the area, and would quickly find out both that the Lars were dead and that Luke was planning on signing up, even if he was "out of the loop" with the Lars directly.

As to why he didn't take Luke as a Padawan off the bat, that's explained pretty well in the prequels. One of the main reasons the Jedi order was so easily manipulated and destroyed was because the methods they used were stagnate and outdated. If any new Jedi were to have a hope of surviving in a hostile galaxy, they were going to need more than a childhood of meditation and contemplation; they were going to need a new method of upbringing, one which would allow them to both have the ties to people around them that would help them survive, and a wider view of the Force, not one steeped in tradition and mired by conformity to an increasingly obsolete order. Obi-Wan realized that the best Jedi training that Luke could possibly have wouldn't be under his tutelage: it would be through the experiences he gained in life.

Noble Ire wrote:Additionally, I don't think anyone beyond Obi-Wan, Yoda, the Lars's, and Palpatine himself knew that Darth Vader was actually Anakin Skywalker of Clone Wars fame; at least, that's what Dark Lord seems to suggest. Thus, though his name might sound familiar to Clone War vets, it might very well be that Luke could get through the Academy without being noticed.

Bail Organa and Raymus Antilles figured it out, even though they were not told specifically.

Darth Fanboy wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:Additionally, I don't think anyone beyond Obi-Wan, Yoda, the Lars's, and Palpatine himself knew that Darth Vader was actually Anakin Skywalker of Clone Wars fame; at least, that's what Dark Lord seems to suggest. Thus, though his name might sound familiar to Clone War vets, it might very well be that Luke could get through the Academy without being noticed.

Bail Organa and Raymus Antilles figured it out, even though they were not told specifically.

Of course, Bail was in close contact with Vader, and had extensive previous experience with Jedi, Anakin among them (and Antilles worked for Bail). Few others would have such benefits.

Noble Ire wrote:Of course, Bail was in close contact with Vader, and had extensive previous experience with Jedi, Anakin among them (and Antilles worked for Bail). Few others would have such benefits.

Inquisitor Malorum from the "Last of the Jedi" books made the connection also at some point. Heh. I understand exactly what you are saying, i'm just pointing out people you missed.

Forgive the rantings of a batshit lunatic but: (See Below)

Also, we're assuming Luke actually goes to the Academy, what if he stays behind and is stuck with the moisture farm? I don't think it would necessarily happen because I think Luke would sell (Didn't the Darklighters want to purchase it?) before leaving but the possibility exists. I can't say with 100% certainty that Owen and Beru Lars dying in ANH is what allows Luke to leave, as I thought it was the fact that they were murdered by the Empire that convinced Luke to give up his life on Tatooine.

Summary: The possibility exists that Luke would stay at the farm instead of take off for the Imperial Academy, although I think Luke would eventually follow thorugh on his dream I don't think he'd do so as easily as one might think. Maybe there'd be enough time for Obi Wan to get back in touch.

Darth Fanboy wrote:Also, we're assuming Luke actually goes to the Academy, what if he stays behind and is stuck with the moisture farm? I don't think it would necessarily happen because I think Luke would sell (Didn't the Darklighters want to purchase it?) before leaving but the possibility exists. I can't say with 100% certainty that Owen and Beru Lars dying in ANH is what allows Luke to leave, as I thought it was the fact that they were murdered by the Empire that convinced Luke to give up his life on Tatooine.

Summary: The possibility exists that Luke would stay at the farm instead of take off for the Imperial Academy, although I think Luke would eventually follow thorugh on his dream I don't think he'd do so as easily as one might think. Maybe there'd be enough time for Obi Wan to get back in touch.

Oh, it was made pretty clear that Luke wanted desperately to get off that rock, and the sense of duty he felt to his aunt and uncle was the only thing keeping him there. If they were killed in a speeder accident, he would have a nice little memorial service, sell the farm to his neighbours, then head for the stars. Why would he stick around even one minute longer than he had to when there is adventure and excitement to be had out among the stars? Also, even considering all that, I still think old Ben would have been able to contact Luke before he dropped off the radar (or was plucked off).

Mr. Bean wrote:This has been disscused before, and the question is a big yes, since Anakin Skywalker was so famous then anyone named "Skywalker" would be looked into.

Is there any reason to believe that Anakin Skywalker was famous at the time of ANH? From the movies, it would seem that he was not famous at all. Luke after all was curious about his father, surely if Anakin Skywalker was famous Luke could have found out about that on his own. Further, if Anakin Skywalker is famous, than surely Obi-wan Kenobi must have been as well, and Luke is quite clear that he has no idea who Obi-wan Kenobi is.

Anguirus wrote:If anyone finds out he has Force potential on top of that, though, he gets an interview with Lord Vader in no time flat, and afterwards is probably quietly groomed into an apprentice.

It seems unlikely that anybody would have found out about Luke's force potential in the academy. The Imperial Navy quite obviously had no interest in force potential at all. In ANH we see one officer dismiss Lord Vader's warnings by saying, "Don't scare us with your sorceror's tricks", and Tarkin states that Darth Vader is the last remnant of the Jedi. The first example tells us that the Imperial Navy is dismissive of the Force in general, the second tells us that the Jedi are still identified with the Force, and other Force users are not even worthy of consideration. Tarkin, after all, doesn't know Vader's true identity, and so it is clear that he is assuming that Vader was a Jedi, because he is a Force user. Given Tarkin's opinion that Vader is all that is left of the Jedi, it seems clear that force use is highly suppressed in the Empire.

Now, if Luke ever ended up in Vader's presence, all bets are off. I have no idea how either Luke or Vader would react in that situation.

Kotooshu wrote:Which raises a further question... why was Obi-Wan out of the loop, anyway? Why was he living on Tatooine, a days hike from Luke's place for so long without training him? If he had taken Luke as a Padawan from the very start, trained him in secret, they could have gone after Vader together.

Was Obi-Wan afraid? That seems a little far-fetched.

ROTS tells us why Obi-Wan was out of the loop early on. He was learning the secrets of becoming a force ghost from Qui-gon. We don't know how long that took. By the time he was done, Owen and Beru might have been very much against Obi-wan taking Luke away. Obi-wan no longer has the power of the Republic behind him to force the issue, and he can't even mention why he's taking Luke away, since that would endanger the entire them both. So Obi-wan might have simply been unable to take Luke as a padawan.

As for Obi-wan being afraid, it would not surprise me in the least. First, Obi-wan still had to deal with the fact that his own Padawan had turned to the dark side, something which he clearly (in ANH) viewed as being his fault (I can just picture him saying, "Damn it, if only I hadn't gone to Utapau"). Second, we have the fact that although Obi-wan had had a single Padawan, he did not train younglings, and so he may have felt he wasn't qualified.

Finally, do we have any evidence that Yoda and Obi-wan planned to train Luke and Leia as Jedi? They were being guarded in order to keep them away from Palpatine, not to turn them into the saviors of the galaxy.

Darth Fanboy wrote:Bail Organa and Raymus Antilles figured it out, even though they were not told specifically.

Bail Organa wasn't told specifically? Although ROTS didn't show it, I've always assumed that Yoda and Obi-wan told him everything. He saved Yoda's life, and adopted a daughter more or less because she was the daughter of Anakin Skywalker. Why the hell wouldn't Yoda and Obi-wan tell him what went down?

Skotos wrote:Is there any reason to believe that Anakin Skywalker was famous at the time of ANH? From the movies, it would seem that he was not famous at all. Luke after all was curious about his father, surely if Anakin Skywalker was famous Luke could have found out about that on his own. Further, if Anakin Skywalker is famous, than surely Obi-wan Kenobi must have been as well, and Luke is quite clear that he has no idea who Obi-wan Kenobi is.

The beginning of the ROTS novelization makes it explicitly clear that both Obi-Wan and Anakin were lionized as highly public war heroes by the Battle of Coruscant, by the Republic propoganda machine. Note how General Grievous calls Obi-Wan "The Negotiator" and expects Anakin to "be taller"; they've got quite a reputation.

However, such fame does not necessarily translate to name recognition twenty years later. Evidently, the Imperial propoganda machine had Anakin dying for the New Empire at the end of the war, and Obi-Wan was demonized like all other Jedi, and assumed killed during the Purge. Since both were dead, and Jedi weren't supposed to have families, no one might make the connection, if common folk even remembered the names of the heroes. Skywalker may have been a common name, and Luke already thought he knew what his father had been, thanks to Owen. And he may never even have heard of General Obi-Wan "The Negotiator" Kenobi.

It seems unlikely that anybody would have found out about Luke's force potential in the academy. The Imperial Navy quite obviously had no interest in force potential at all. In ANH we see one officer dismiss Lord Vader's warnings by saying, "Don't scare us with your sorceror's tricks", and Tarkin states that Darth Vader is the last remnant of the Jedi. The first example tells us that the Imperial Navy is dismissive of the Force in general, the second tells us that the Jedi are still identified with the Force, and other Force users are not even worthy of consideration. Tarkin, after all, doesn't know Vader's true identity, and so it is clear that he is assuming that Vader was a Jedi, because he is a Force user. Given Tarkin's opinion that Vader is all that is left of the Jedi, it seems clear that force use is highly suppressed in the Empire.

The very existance of Force-use does seem to be suppressed from the public by the Empire, yes, but if Luke actually began demonstrating Force skills, someone would eventually take notice. Palpatine probably still had a few inquisitors around by the OT, and more than a few Force adepts. If word reach Coruscant of a new one with Imperial training and a talent like Luke's, he'd be snapped up quickly. How do you think Palpatine populated his academies on Byss, or filled the ranks of the Imperial Guard?

Finally, do we have any evidence that Yoda and Obi-wan planned to train Luke and Leia as Jedi? They were being guarded in order to keep them away from Palpatine, not to turn them into the saviors of the galaxy.

That seems unclear. Yoda's plan simply seemed to be to get Luke and Leia out of the Empire's reach, and then take it from there. Perhaps he thought decades of meditation would give new insight on the matter.

Bail Organa wasn't told specifically? Although ROTS didn't show it, I've always assumed that Yoda and Obi-wan told him everything. He saved Yoda's life, and adopted a daughter more or less because she was the daughter of Anakin Skywalker. Why the hell wouldn't Yoda and Obi-wan tell him what went down?

Dark Lord implies that he knew something was up, but had to put the pieces together himself. Evidently, Obi-Wan and Yoda thought telling Bail the true parentage of his child would put him in even greater danger than he already was. After all, powerful Force Users can read thoughts, even passively.

skotos wrote:Is there any reason to believe that Anakin Skywalker was famous at the time of ANH? From the movies, it would seem that he was not famous at all. Luke after all was curious about his father, surely if Anakin Skywalker was famous Luke could have found out about that on his own. Further, if Anakin Skywalker is famous, than surely Obi-wan Kenobi must have been as well, and Luke is quite clear that he has no idea who Obi-wan Kenobi is.

Tatooine is so far removed from the rest of the galaxy that the entire sector doesn't have HoloNet access. And it's not as if he's going to read about it anywhere or overhear it from smugglers. He barely travels out to the few cities on the planet anyway.

Kotooshu wrote:

Wanderer wrote:Obi Wan being out of the loop doesn't find out Luke has left till its too late.

Which raises a further question... why was Obi-Wan out of the loop, anyway? Why was he living on Tatooine, a days hike from Luke's place for so long without training him? If he had taken Luke as a Padawan from the very start, trained him in secret, they could have gone after Vader together.

Was Obi-Wan afraid? That seems a little far-fetched.

The movie and more specifically the novel goes into detail about how the Sith Order has continued to evolve while the Jedi Order became stagnant, which is why Yoda, one of the most powerful Force users in exsistence, couldn't beat Sidious and left the battle into exile. He realized his orders weakness against the Sith.

Ontop of that, I'm not sure that Obi and Yoda had the 'master plan' all thought out when Obi went with Luke to Tatooine. He might have seen it as his own exile but also to safeguard the kid as his duty and responsibility to his lost friend. Or, more cynically, he might have seen Luke as possible bait for Anakin at some future point. A distraction and an oppertunity to strike.

I'll take Yoda's reluctance to train Luke in ESB as genuine rather than Yoda just fucking with Luke and meaning to train him no matter what.

Knife wrote:Or, more cynically, he might have seen Luke as possible bait for Anakin at some future point. A distraction and an oppertunity to strike.

I doubt that taking Luke to Tatooine was a ploy to draw Vader out, because at the time the decision was made, Obi-wan and Yoda thought that Vader was dead.

Knife wrote:I'll take Yoda's reluctance to train Luke in ESB as genuine rather than Yoda just fucking with Luke and meaning to train him no matter what.

It seems pretty clear that Yoda's reluctance was real. After all, Obi-wan has to talk him into it, and Obi-wan's speaking to Yoda was not for Luke's benefit, since Luke wasn't even aware of it until he inferred it from Yoda's responses.

Noble Ire wrote:The very existance of Force-use does seem to be suppressed from the public by the Empire, yes, but if Luke actually began demonstrating Force skills, someone would eventually take notice. Palpatine probably still had a few inquisitors around by the OT, and more than a few Force adepts. If word reach Coruscant of a new one with Imperial training and a talent like Luke's, he'd be snapped up quickly. How do you think Palpatine populated his academies on Byss, or filled the ranks of the Imperial Guard?

As I mentioned in my post, if Luke's force talent came to the attention of Vader, all bets are off. The same thing is true if Luke came to the attention of any of Palpatine's minions. As for the ranks of the Imperial Guard, or the academies on Byss, I am wholly ignorant of those. I know very little of the EU, being a fan of the movies but rejecting the EU almost in its entirety as far as my personal interest and personal canon go. Of course, I acknowledge the C Canon for purposes of debate and discussion, but I can't offer much once the discussion drifts into it.

Noble Ire wrote:Dark Lord implies that he knew something was up, but had to put the pieces together himself. Evidently, Obi-Wan and Yoda thought telling Bail the true parentage of his child would put him in even greater danger than he already was. After all, powerful Force Users can read thoughts, even passively.

Obi-wan and Yoda would not have kept the truth from Bail because of the possibility of telepathy. Bail already knew that his adopted daughter was the daughter of Padme of Naboo, and he knew that she had a twin brother. This information would be enough to arouse Palpatine's interest, since he knew that any children of Padme would almost certainly be Anakin's children. Of course, there would be no consideration about what would happen if Vader found out about the kids, since Yoda and Obi-wan thought that Vader was dead at the time.

skotos wrote:Obi-wan and Yoda would not have kept the truth from Bail because of the possibility of telepathy. Bail already knew that his adopted daughter was the daughter of Padme of Naboo, and he knew that she had a twin brother. This information would be enough to arouse Palpatine's interest, since he knew that any children of Padme would almost certainly be Anakin's children. Of course, there would be no consideration about what would happen if Vader found out about the kids, since Yoda and Obi-wan thought that Vader was dead at the time.

You do have a point, at least in regards to them thinking Anakin was dead when they handed off the Skywalker twins. Of course, that does provide another explanation as to why they wouldn't tell Bail; if Vader was dead, there was no point in it. Best ensure that he didn't get any second thoughts, and not over-complicate matters.

Dark Lord implies that he knew something was up, but had to put the pieces together himself. Evidently, Obi-Wan and Yoda thought telling Bail the true parentage of his child would put him in even greater danger than he already was. After all, powerful Force Users can read thoughts, even passively.

Um...Obi-Wan told Bail everything that he knew. But as of the end of RotS, both of them think that Vader is dead. In Dark Lord, Bail has to figure out who the "guy in the black armor and breath mask" is, and figures it out when he hears him addressed as "Vader." Obi-Wan learns of Vader's survival and transformation on Tatooine from a news broadcast. And yes, Bail knew that Anakin/Vader was the faher of his child.

It could also be that Owen Lars forbid Obi-wan to get anywhere near Luke, especially for any Jedi-training.

Obi-wan couldn't just force himself on them, especially since he couldn't take Luke in case he himself was discovered. And Uncle Owen did have a great fear that Luke could become like his father (did they know the real truth of Anakin?). While he was gruff and irritable, he was doing his damn best to see that Luke didn't get into trouble.

Anguirus wrote:

Dark Lord implies that he knew something was up, but had to put the pieces together himself. Evidently, Obi-Wan and Yoda thought telling Bail the true parentage of his child would put him in even greater danger than he already was. After all, powerful Force Users can read thoughts, even passively.

Um...Obi-Wan told Bail everything that he knew. But as of the end of RotS, both of them think that Vader is dead. In Dark Lord, Bail has to figure out who the "guy in the black armor and breath mask" is, and figures it out when he hears him addressed as "Vader." Obi-Wan learns of Vader's survival and transformation on Tatooine from a news broadcast. And yes, Bail knew that Anakin/Vader was the faher of his child.

Upon reviewing the book, you are correct. That does make more sense than what I initally remembered happening; thanks.

The question is how many Academy's are there in the Empire. It would require a lot of man power to keep them all under observation for force-users. Plus Luke already had a self confesses dislike for the Empire.

Like Biggs, I'd see him jumping ship first chance he gets and finding his way to the Rebellion. From there he's very likely to meet an Old Republic veteran who would tell him about his father, the Jedi Anakin Skywalker.

From there it's all up in the air. The Rebellion would recognize the amount of propoganda they can gain from parading the son of an old Republican Hero like Luke. This would get to Vader and the Emperor and they'd go after him. Unfortunately Luke wouldn't even be half trained when he meets Vader and he'd die or be turned.

I think we need to consider Obi-wan's response to Luke joining the academy. The OP specifies that Obi-wan is out of the loop and Luke is able to join, but Obi-wan would find out pretty quickly. Looking after Luke was Obi-wan's sacred charge, and his farewell gift to his (now dead, in his eyes) "brother". I imagine Luke would join the academy, and Obi-wan would either head straight to Alderan, or straight to Degobah (from which Yoda would probably send him to Alderan in any case).

Once there, Obi-wan would end up hooking up with the Rebellion, which would have the Force only knows what result.