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So I did dishes again.

Qui-Gon Jinn discovers the secret/abillity/power, to keep his essence/spirit/soul alive through unknown means. (has anything been written about this?)

It obviously is a skill since Yoda had to learn it as well as Obi Wan. Presumably Qui-Gon learned before his death or maybe he was just so in tune with the living Force that it was something he could do after he died.

Perhaps he discovered how to do it by mistake. His wanting and desire to guide Anakin to become a Jedi and fullfill his destiny as the Chosen One was so strong it kept Qui-Gon from passing completely into the Force.

Anyway. If it is a skill and Qui-Gon taught Yoda how to commune with himself, and then Yoda taught Obi-Wan how to commune with Qui-Gon, who taught Luke how to commune with Obi-Wan?

Assuming Yoda is the most powerfull lightside Force user alive, which I think is agreed upon, that could explain how Qui-Gon was able to reach out to him and communicate this new skill, whether he had fully mastered the skill or not.

Obviously Yoda teaches Obi-Wan, and he learns at least some of the skill quickly since by the end of Dark Lord Qui-Gon can communicate with him.

Who teaches Luke?

Luke has full on sit down on a log, lay around in the snow conversations with Obi-Wan, with presumably no knowledge of the skill. Yoda seems to need to be in deep meditation to commune with Qui-Gon.

So is it the communicator or the communicatee who needs to know the skill?

If it's the communicator then why does Obi-Wan need to train to do it?
If it's the communicatee then how can Luke be so proficient at it, where Yoda needs to meditate? Would that give a true insight to Luke's power in the force? (Side bar: If Luke is that strong in the Force, why does he show none of the abillities that Anakin showed at twice his age? (9, 18 ) Or is his abillity "to bullseye womp rats" the same as Anakin's abillity to pod race?)

Also, in one of the EU books timed shortly after ROTJ, IIRC Obi-Wan tells Luke that he can't appear to him any more and he is on his own. I don't remeber the exact reason, but this doesn't make any sense.

Qui-Gon died in TPM. Ten years later he is still communicating with Yoda and then the years following ROTS with Obi-Wan. Why is it that Obi-Wan, who dies in ANH has to stop communicating with Luke 1 or 2 years after ROTJ. And where are Yoda and Anakin? If it is a time or power based abillity, and ignoring Obi-Wan's stopping, that would give Luke 15 years at least with Yoda and Anakin based on my imaginary time line of Qui-Gon's ghost and even longer if it is based on power since Yoda and Anakin were two of the most powerfull Force users of that time. DE-CANNONIZE THE EU!!

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Force ghost seem to appear through the willpower and ability of the "dead" Jedi; the person they choose to reveal themselves to doesn't have to know some special technique.

havokeff wrote:Also, in one of the EU books timed shortly after ROTJ, IIRC Obi-Wan tells Luke that he can't appear to him any more and he is on his own. I don't remeber the exact reason, but this doesn't make any sense.

Evidently, a force-user who manages to retain their identy after death can only do so for a limited period of time, and as time passes, appearing to living beings becomes more and more difficult. That is why Obi-Wan tells Luke he can't assist him much in the future.

havokeff wrote:DE-CANNONIZE THE EU!!

If you must inject your personal hatred of the Expanded Universe into every thread you post, at least try to make the objection relate to the topic in some way. What does this subject have to do with the EU at all, excepting the rather irrelevant bit about Obi-Wan I already addressed?

It is obviously not some elaborate learned skill requiring meditation or special preparation, because Anakin Skywalker did it in Return of the Jedi, and subsequently appeared to the Princess Leia in The Truce at Bakura and in Luke's dreams in "The Dream." Nor is the gradual inability to maintain contact an immutable law; Tales of the Jedi shows that the ancient Jen'ari were able to loiter in this plane of existence for millennia, retaining the ability to directly influence the corporeal plane and even the ability to take possession of a mortal's body. It is simply a mystery, one not properly understood.

after following Star Gate SG-1
I have come to the conclusion this problem while not solved but almost.
the whole Jedi ghosts things are kinda like the ascended beings. There probally are laws and such that keeps a person from comunicating to and fro.

Also it seemed to me that Obi-Wan first apeard to Luke when he felt he was ready. and it was to meet Yoda. Yoda probally had some influence on what was going on between Luke and the ghost of Obi-Wan.

Oh and i think the book that Obi-Wan tells Luke he cant see him anymore was the first Thrawn book. And thats 5-6 years after Jedi making it just about 10 years after Obi's death

havokeff wrote:snip OP

I suggest that you read the Revenge of the Sith novelization where this is pretty much dealt with.

Ok, so acording to Qui-Gon, while speaking to Yoda in the ROTS novelization "It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn if you wish it."

So that confirms that to achieve Qui-Gon's "level", if you will, it must be taught. Who taught Anakin then? How did he achieve the power if no one taught him?

That does answer Luke being able to commune though, that is the will of the person who died. Thanks for the reminder, I watch the movies constantly, but usually only read the books once.

Noble Ire wrote:

havokeff wrote:DE-CANNONIZE THE EU!!

If you must inject your personal hatred of the Expanded Universe into every thread you post, at least try to make the objection relate to the topic in some way. What does this subject have to do with the EU at all, excepting the rather irrelevant bit about Obi-Wan I already addressed?

Oh don't get me wrong I don't hate the EU, I actually find it quite entertaining, and like I said in the thead you are refering to, I've spent quite a bit of money on it. I just think that with the movie saga complete that the EU would unfold differently then it has with most of the foundations written without all of the source material avalible like they now are. You are right however, it wasn't very relevant.

havokeff wrote:Ok, so acording to Qui-Gon, while speaking to Yoda in the ROTS novelization "It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn if you wish it."

So that confirms that to achieve Qui-Gon's "level", if you will, it must be taught. Who taught Anakin then? How did he achieve the power if no one taught him?

That does answer Luke being able to commune though, that is the will of the person who died. Thanks for the reminder, I watch the movies constantly, but usually only read the books once.

The question then rests in who taught Qui Gon?

PainRack wrote:

havokeff wrote:Ok, so acording to Qui-Gon, while speaking to Yoda in the ROTS novelization "It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn if you wish it."

So that confirms that to achieve Qui-Gon's "level", if you will, it must be taught. Who taught Anakin then? How did he achieve the power if no one taught him?

That does answer Luke being able to commune though, that is the will of the person who died. Thanks for the reminder, I watch the movies constantly, but usually only read the books once.

The question then rests in who taught Qui Gon?

That has an answer: A Whill Shamen.

havokeff wrote:Ok, so acording to Qui-Gon, while speaking to Yoda in the ROTS novelization "It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn if you wish it."

So that confirms that to achieve Qui-Gon's "level", if you will, it must be taught. Who taught Anakin then? How did he achieve the power if no one taught him?

Noone. According to George Lucas in the ROTJ DVD commentary, Anakin was able to retain his identity because of Yoda and Obi-Wan.

havokeff wrote:That does answer Luke being able to commune though, that is the will of the person who died. Thanks for the reminder, I watch the movies constantly, but usually only read the books once.

You're welcome.

Publius wrote:It is obviously not some elaborate learned skill requiring meditation or special preparation, because Anakin Skywalker did it in Return of the Jedi, and subsequently appeared to the Princess Leia in The Truce at Bakura and in Luke's dreams in "The Dream." Nor is the gradual inability to maintain contact an immutable law; Tales of the Jedi shows that the ancient Jen'ari were able to loiter in this plane of existence for millennia, retaining the ability to directly influence the corporeal plane and even the ability to take possession of a mortal's body. It is simply a mystery, one not properly understood.

Along those lines, Exar Kun was able to haunt Yavin 4 for about 4000 years, although that was only because he sacrificed the Massassi to bind himself to the temples.

Evidently, a force-user who manages to retain their identy after death can only do so for a limited period of time, and as time passes, appearing to living beings becomes more and more difficult

Perhaps this is more of a "psychological" reason in the dead person, i.e being more used to the etheral than the physical and therefore slowly drifting away from it.

Whereas the undead Sith are so connected to the physical through their desire to dominate it, that this helps form and indeed strengthen their connection to it, at the possible cost of being linked to specific places. Then there's the sacrifice/exchange of life to maintain part of one's own, as Exar Kun and the old Korriban Sith appeared to do. That, or heavy meditation/isolation, like Naga Sadow did (but that was more extending his lifespan, than surviving death).

Well, Sith spirits are usually bound to their own desicated corpses, necropolis, focussing artifacts and the like. So, they are physically anchored to the material world. Even, the thousands of Jedi/Sith spirits trapped in the valley of the Jedi were trapped at the location they died at. Which, is different from other spirits such as Obi-wan and Yoda who left no earthly remains; and are not bound to haunt one place. Obi-wan, Anakin, Qui-gon and Yoda; all appear light years away from where they die.