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Did they think "balance" was going to improve on their status in some way?

The Jedi order had reigned unchallenged for a thousand years. What exactly was wrong with the Force that needed fixing (from the Jedi POV)?

They have by all perceptions thought of balancing the Force as in their favor. Also remember in RoTS we hear that Anakin is to destroy the Sith as well...so for them they likely hinged on that more then what would balance really mean.

You know, I thought that from the first time i heard it. I suppose that since it was made IIRC by one of their own they figured it would have some benefits for them..... or something.

It seems to me that Jedi dogma does not treat the Light side / Dark side dichotomy of the Force in a yin-yang way (two equal, opposing yet interrelated forces that must both be present for a system to be healthy); their rejection of all attachment and strong emotion certainly seems to indicate that. Rather, they see the Light side as the correct, natural state of affairs that the Dark side inherently unbalances by existing.

So the simple answer is, yes, they did expect it to improve their status. I would imagine that in their arrogance they believed that "bringing balance to the Force" meant that the Dark side would be completely extinquished, and no Force user could ever use it against them or be in danger of falling to it ever again.

It was in some ancient prophecy, so the Jedi had been looking forward to it for a long time. Even though they were essentially the unchallenged Force-wielders in the galaxy, they knew as much as anyone that all was not well.

The whole thing is rather vague, but it appears that the Jedi figured if Anakin could bring this ambiguous 'balance' to the Force, they would be able to stamp out evil and corruption in the galaxy once and for all (and not just the Sith variety).

Of course this was not the case. Even after ROTJ, the new Jedi Order was rife with evildoers and Dark Side whats-its...

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Of course this was not the case. Even after ROTJ, the new Jedi Order was rife with evildoers and Dark Side whats-its...

Still, the New Jedi Order, though comparitively young, seems rather more stable than the old, even if it has had its share of failures. It is far more progressive, open to the Galaxy at large, and more understanding of its member's needs, things that reduce the chances of another Anakin coming along (although I suppose there will always be assholes like Jacen who slip through the cracks). It is an improvement, and more balanced from a certain point of view, although one would expect a bit more of such a highly-acclaimed prophesy.

What was it I read with something along the lines of 'the Jedi refused to think that if the Force wanted Balance, evil could never be destroyed.'

Pretty much, the Jedi didn't want 'balance' they wanted to defeat the Darkside. Their interpertation of the prophacy was in error, and played into their destruction, which funny enough, balanced the Force.

They were played, by the Sith and by the Force itself with the 'Chosen One' as the cure for the cure, sort of speak. Palpy swept away a corrupt Republic and Jedi Order, Anakin was in place to sweep away the Emperor. Luke was the first of the new Order, and the galaxy starts a fresh.

I think the Jedi wanted the Force to be balanced because they believed it would be good for the galaxy. They would assume things would work out as they should, even if it meant they had to suffer. However, even in their wildest dreams they probably didn't imagine what ended up happening.

CDiehl wrote:I think the Jedi wanted the Force to be balanced because they believed it would be good for the galaxy. They would assume things would work out as they should, even if it meant they had to suffer. However, even in their wildest dreams they probably didn't imagine what ended up happening.

They were unable to imagine what happened. Plain and simple. The Order was corrupt, just as the Republic was and the Jedi were arrogant to see that they were part of the problem.

They pretended to know what the Force wanted, and yet the Force wanted balance that the Jedi would not, in themselves, want.

I for one am signing up with Anakin being the one depicted in the Sith'ari Prophecy, thus both Jedi and Sith would love to see the so called balancing of the force, but for vastly different reasons. The Jedi expect the Chosen One to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force, the Sith expect for the Sith'ari to destroy the Sith but make them stronger by doing so, sound familiar to anyone?

Galvatron wrote: The Jedi order had reigned unchallenged for a thousand years. What exactly was wrong with the Force that needed fixing (from the Jedi POV)?

If I recall correctly, somewhere it was written that the Darkside had become increasingly stronger over the 1000 years since the defeat of the Sith. The Jedi believed that the Force had become unbalanced, not neccisarily by the Sith, but by the general state of crappiness throughout the Galaxy.

IMO The Jedi just interperated the prophecy to suit their own needs. They didn't take into accout that the Force may have wanted them destroyed as the "balance" it desired along with the Sith's destruction, which is the roll Anakin essentialy filled.

havokeff wrote: If I recall correctly, somewhere it was written that the Darkside had become increasingly stronger over the 1000 years since the defeat of the Sith. The Jedi believed that the Force had become unbalanced, not neccisarily by the Sith, but by the general state of crappiness throughout the Galaxy.

IMO The Jedi just interperated the prophecy to suit their own needs. They didn't take into accout that the Force may have wanted them destroyed as the "balance" it desired along with the Sith's destruction, which is the roll Anakin essentialy filled.

I don't know it's actualy origin, but it's my little crackpot theory as well. Both the Jedi and the Sith got played by the God-like thing called the Force.

Which novel states that the Jedi ability to use the Force has been slowly diminishing, even before Obiwan joined the Order?

That would suggest a huge incentive for balance.

People misinterpreting religious doctrines to ignore negatives are nothing new. Look at all the red-state American Christians in real-life who assume that Christ will love their gun-toting SUV-driving money-grubbing warmongering selves when he comes back, just because they bash gays and say his name on Sundays.

One theory I've seen, is that the actual balancing is that of power on offer. By destroying the Sith (legacy pretenders aside) Order, he eliminated a tradition that offered its practitioners vastly greater powers than any light side tradition. Hence, bringing it into balance, means that future Jedi and Dark Jedi would be roughly equal in their powers, as opposed to Palpatine-eseque 'I walk through Jedi Masters' super-Sith.

NecronLord wrote:One theory I've seen, is that the actual balancing is that of power on offer. By destroying the Sith (legacy pretenders aside) Order, he eliminated a tradition that offered its practitioners vastly greater powers than any light side tradition. Hence, bringing it into balance, means that future Jedi and Dark Jedi would be roughly equal in their powers, as opposed to Palpatine-eseque 'I walk through Jedi Masters' super-Sith.

That could be one theory. Too Jedi sect oriented though. The Force has been implied to be the stand in for God/Fate, so focusing on the Force users as the reason instead of the tools of fate seems to cheapen it a bit for me.

Another theory I've seen and that we all have probably seen is the actual numbers theory:

10,000 Jedi 2 Sith: imbalance

2 Jedi 2 Sith: balance

The Force literaly wants physical balance.

And this is why Yoda suggests the prophecy might have been misread.

General Schatten wrote:I for one am signing up with Anakin being the one depicted in the Sith'ari Prophecy

Hold on there. If memory serves me right then the Sith'ari was a race who lived on Korriban thousands of years before the first incarnation of the Republic was born, as said in KOTOR.

Has the prophesy actually been made by them, or are you mixing up terms? (Or am i mixing up terms?)

havokeff wrote:Another theory I've seen and that we all have probably seen is the actual numbers theory:

10,000 Jedi 2 Sith: imbalance

2 Jedi 2 Sith: balance

The Force literaly wants physical balance.

But there aren't actually two Jedi. There were many many Order 66 survivors and at least a handful that outright survived the Purge. Like Master Ikrit, who sleep through the whole thing. Or Elegos A'Kla's Uncle who survived on Alderann until ANH.

this is a theory that completely ignores the EU. Purist, I think it's called.

havokeff wrote:this is a theory that completely ignores the EU. Purist, I think it's called.

Purist theories are invalid in regards to the Star Wars universe as a whole. Certainly, such arguements can be made considering only the movies (for instance, Lucas' intent), but canonically, they cannot be applied.

However, a similar arguement could be made taking into consideration the EU; Palpatine had several dozen dark Force adepts at his disposal after the Purge. Many of them were not on par with even the surviving Jedi, but they were more numerous, and theoretically could have balanced each other out (its a weak theory, I know).

Noble Ire wrote:

havokeff wrote:this is a theory that completely ignores the EU. Purist, I think it's called.

Purist theories are invalid in regards to the Star Wars universe as a whole. Certainly, such arguements can be made considering only the movies (for instance, Lucas' intent), but canonically, they cannot be applied.

However, a similar arguement could be made taking into consideration the EU; Palpatine had several dozen dark Force adepts at his disposal after the Purge. Many of them were not on par with even the surviving Jedi, but they were more numerous, and theoretically could have balanced each other out (its a weak theory, I know).

I was going to say that actually, but I'm trying not to spend my whole day off on the board

l33telboi wrote:

General Schatten wrote:I for one am signing up with Anakin being the one depicted in the Sith'ari Prophecy

Hold on there. If memory serves me right then the Sith'ari was a race who lived on Korriban thousands of years before the first incarnation of the Republic was born, as said in KOTOR.

Has the prophesy actually been made by them, or are you mixing up terms? (Or am i mixing up terms?)

No, you are thinking of the Sith Species; they had red skin, black to red hair, yellow to white eyes, and always had a feral look to them.

The race included the meek and lowly slave class, a skilled and intelligent engineer class, the priestly Kissai class, and the warlike Massassi class. In later years, the offspring of Sith and the exiled Dark Jedi formed another class, from which most of the Sith Lords of the time came from.

But the prohpecy only pertained to the Sith'ari (Which was Sith for Overlord) the most powerful and truest Sith.

The Sith had a long and brutal history way before the Expelled Dark Jedi's arrived, but the powers they had made the primitive Sith believe they were gods, at first.

My theory, that I've seen expoused elsewhere:

While the ability to use the Force is not genetics based (see Mike's arguments against it), you genes open you up to a certain predesposition to using it - hence why Anakin's children were a threat. Thus the Jedi Order's policy of taking away force using children and raising them to be celiabte monks is contrary tot he wil of the Force - it is weakening it by reducing the number of Force users with each generation. The Jedi also used their position and power to strangle other Force sects by taking away potential learners and by isolating or eliminating the sects. Thus Anakin comes along and wipes out the Jedi. However the Sith are doing exactly the same - killing Force users and wiping out the other sects. So Anakin destroys the Sith.

End result is that both controling groups that have been strangling the Force to make it serve their own ends have been eliminated, the Force continues to do as it pleases and grows. Balance has been restored.