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Do Jedi ever learn to fight without weapons? How would say one do with just his appendages and some martial arts combatant, he has his precog to help him, if he's faster than the person trying to hit him.

Jedi do learn how to fight unarmed, look at Obi Wan in AotC in his fight with Jango.

In hand-to-hand against any martial artist in ST the Jedi would completly own them simply because, thanks to the Force, a Jedi is stronger, physically faster, and thanks to precog has faster reflex's.

Mr CorSec wrote:Jedi do learn how to fight unarmed, look at Obi Wan in AotC in his fight with Jango.

In hand-to-hand against any martial artist in ST the Jedi would completly own them simply because, thanks to the Force, a Jedi is stronger, physically faster, and thanks to precog has faster reflex's.

Would be interesting to see a jedi force punch one of those machines that can measure psi. The pre-cog isn't perfect however, as when Jango was able to lasso obi-wan, and kill a jedi in AOTC.

Mr CorSec wrote:Jedi do learn how to fight unarmed, look at Obi Wan in AotC in his fight with Jango.

In hand-to-hand against any martial artist in ST the Jedi would completly own them simply because, thanks to the Force, a Jedi is stronger, physically faster, and thanks to precog has faster reflex's.

Meant to post this in PSW, oh well. Anyway, what about unarmed Jedi say vs Riddick or the Lord Marshal?

Shrykull wrote:

Mr CorSec wrote:Jedi do learn how to fight unarmed, look at Obi Wan in AotC in his fight with Jango.

In hand-to-hand against any martial artist in ST the Jedi would completly own them simply because, thanks to the Force, a Jedi is stronger, physically faster, and thanks to precog has faster reflex's.

Meant to post this in PSW, oh well. Anyway, what about unarmed Jedi say vs Riddick or the Lord Marshal?

I do think it depends on the personal training and ability level of each and every Jedi.
The question is where is the "Clone Wars" cartoon positioned on the hierarchical ledder of SW canon policy, because in those cartoons we see some crazy-shit stunts the Jedi pull out on occasion!
For an example we see Yoda levitate a droid landing craft( 370 meters wing span according to starwars.com)!

In some earlier episodes we see Mace Windu fight off a whole army of battle droids! You know, the heavily armored dudes with linked blasters on the wrists!
At some point of the battle he looses his lightsaber and forced to switch to melee. During this scene we can see him literally ripping armored battle droids to shreds(!) with nothing but his bare fists! The heavy damage he causes to the droids can be only compared to a light anti-tank weapon hit, like the RPG-7 for example...

And lets not forget the various destructive Force powers he uses against the droids! Like the time when he stripped a droid from all his screws and bolts (we should later discuss why would a battle droid be held together with simple bolts) and Force throws them towards another group of droids, which causes a shrapnel-like damage to them!
And another trick that shoud proove itself very usefull against the Lord-Marshal. At some point Mace gets completely surrounded by battle doids. At this points he executes a 360 degrees Force push which- if I recall it right- completely destroys the first few rows of droids and severely damages the others.

But probably we should ask why didn't Obi-Wan use this kind powers against General Grievous when he lost his lightsaber?

1) I think that the Force uses demonstrated in Clone Wars are exaggerated. Clone Wars even indicated that Ki-Adi-Mundi was killed in a duel with General Grievous, which obviously wasn't the case (Ki-Adi-Mundi was shot down by Clone Troopers following Order 66 shortly after Grievous died).

2) The novelization indicates that manipulating the Force isn't effortless. Flashy uses of the Force like huge telekinetic moves are more tiring for the Jedi, so they prefer to rely on low-effort techniques.

Shrykull wrote:Do Jedi ever learn to fight without weapons? How would say one do with just his appendages and some martial arts combatant, he has his precog to help him, if he's faster than the person trying to hit him.

Wouldn't it seem logical that they would have widely varying skill levels in this type of fighting, just as they do with lightsabre fighting?

This is a bit like talking about someone who's twice as strong as the average person. In general you could assume that someone like that could beat the shit out of the average guy, but if he's distracted or gets caught flat-footed or simply isn't very skilled and the other guy is quite good at fighting, it could easily go the other way. Jedi have extra abilities but that doesn't mean they can't lose.

Ted C wrote:1) I think that the Force uses demonstrated in Clone Wars are exaggerated. Clone Wars even indicated that Ki-Adi-Mundi was killed in a duel with General Grievous, which obviously wasn't the case (Ki-Adi-Mundi was shot down by Clone Troopers following Order 66 shortly after Grievous died).

No, it just showed Ki getting his ass kicked to near-death. The next episode shows ARC troopers bailing the Jedi's ass.

Wrong forum moved.

I know it's the RPG but it seems that SD Net is more receptive of the WotC material than say WEG; anyhow in Power of the Jedi there's a prestige class that specializes in unarmed combat called Force Warrior. The text indicates that during the formation of the Jedi most were Force Warriors, after the lightsaber is created they become more and more scarce, though they were still more prominant in the Jedi ranks than outside of it.

It isn't very unlikely that the Jedi would learn unarmed combat before they learned to use a lightsaber. The idea is to gain reflexes and stamina and be able to predict and foresee body movements. Even with a Jedi's precognition there is a slight margin of error. One has to train it in order to be able to use it well. There is the aspect of learning a style in which one must learn to use the Force to make strong offensive attacks. With a weapon like a lightsaber, one may be too reliant on the lightsaber or weapon.

Sun Wukung wrote:With a weapon like a lightsaber, one may be too reliant on the lightsaber or weapon.

That's the idea and antithesis behind another Prestige Class in the sourcebook, the Jedi Weapons Master, they choose one weapon with which they are proficient with, thus making either a balanced character or a specialized lightsaber wielder; the only two Jedi I can think of that appeared in the movies that were JWM were lightsaber masters, they are Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker.

Luke sidekicked Vader in their ROTJ duel, and Obi-Wan kicks a lot of droids in TPM, hard enough that they don't get up. Younglings probably get taught combat discipline long before they get their hands on a real lightsaber, although for some reason I just can't picture Luke or Obi-Wan taking a swing at somebody with a closed fist.

Most sword fighting styles have an unarmed combat style associated with them, ie. The Samurai learned the sword but also learned Ju Jitsu, so it's probably safe to assume that whilst a lot of the Jedi training is focused on the Force and lightsaber training there is a unarmed combat aspect to the training, possibly to help with reactions and trusting the force.

Mr CorSec wrote:Most sword fighting styles have an unarmed combat style associated with them, ie. The Samurai learned the sword but also learned Ju Jitsu, so it's probably safe to assume that whilst a lot of the Jedi training is focused on the Force and lightsaber training there is a unarmed combat aspect to the training, possibly to help with reactions and trusting the force.

Here's one, say Jedi vs Neo with all the martial arts info he got downloaded into his brain.

Neo loses big time. Telekinesis>>>>martial arts.
Even if Jedi didn't know shit about HtH you have to get close to them to make use of your mad fighting skills. Not gonna happen against a trained Jedi.

Batman wrote:Neo loses big time. Telekinesis>>>>martial arts.
Even if Jedi didn't know shit about HtH you have to get close to them to make use of your mad fighting skills. Not gonna happen against a trained Jedi.

Neo has TK. He pulls Sai off the walls in The Merovingian's house with it. He also stops bullets in mid-air.

In the Matrix. If this is happening in the Matrix it's pointless because Neo can alter reality on his whim. I was assuming this was Neo with a shitload of martial arts skills VS a Jedi in the real world.

Technically the Matrix is our 'real world', however, I'm still giving a Jedi the win since he has precog and should Neo make one mistake he's getting at least a limb cleaved off.

Like hell it is. The Matrix is the mother of all video games. Neo has his powers in there because he knows the cheat codes. The real world is the real world.

Batman wrote:In the Matrix. If this is happening in the Matrix it's pointless because Neo can alter reality on his whim. I was assuming this was Neo with a shitload of martial arts skills VS a Jedi in the real world.

Outide The Matrix Neo was a technopath able to control machines and destroy them with a thought. Not sure how applicable that is in teh fight though.

Mobiboros wrote:

Batman wrote:In the Matrix. If this is happening in the Matrix it's pointless because Neo can alter reality on his whim. I was assuming this was Neo with a shitload of martial arts skills VS a Jedi in the real world.

Outide The Matrix Neo was a technopath able to control machines and destroy them with a thought. Not sure how applicable that is in teh fight though.

Doesn't make any difference to the fight, Neo could throw any of the machines he wants at a Jedi, and get them TK'd back at him.

General Schatten wrote:That's the idea and antithesis behind another Prestige Class in the sourcebook, the Jedi Weapons Master, they choose one weapon with which they are proficient with, thus making either a balanced character or a specialized lightsaber wielder; the only two Jedi I can think of that appeared in the movies that were JWM were lightsaber masters, they are Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker.

What about Cin Drallig? Admittedly he just appears briefly in the security holo-recording, but he's a JWM specializing in lightsabers, too.


And on the whole Neo thing.. he can only TK machines, Jedi can TK everything. Not a good deal there.

Here's another strange matter that's probably a subject for a thread in the proper forum.. Neo didn't seem to be able to use his martial arts knowledge when he was fighting with Bane/Smith in the real world. His strikes were ludicrously noobish, even worse in the clinch.
I found this sort of strange; even without rigorous physical conditioning of his "real-life" body, his knowledge of unarmed fighting techniques should have been somewhat evident. What gives?

Here's another strange matter that's probably a subject for a thread in the proper forum.. Neo didn't seem to be able to use his martial arts knowledge when he was fighting with Bane/Smith in the real world. His strikes were ludicrously noobish, even worse in the clinch.
I found this sort of strange; even without rigorous physical conditioning of his "real-life" body, his knowledge of unarmed fighting techniques should have been somewhat evident. What gives?

His skills in the Matrix rely upon his inside knowledge and his superious agility. Outside the Matrix his build suggest he's a total weakling. He will seem noobish, he could still throw the punches but they wouldn't hit as hard and they'd probably hurt like hell. He is a complete cybergeek remember