StarDestroyer.Net BBS

NOTE: PAL format, so 25fps.

In chronological order, I've gone over most of the scenes where we see rapid blaster fire to determine exact ROF.

Clones equipped in Scout Armor on Kashyyk

Weapon: DC-15A



The Clone in the centre is observed to fire 3 shots in 6 frames before moving his rifle to a new target;

6/ 3 = 2

25 / 2 = 12.5

12.5 x 60 = 750 rounds per minute

High End Incident

Weapon: DC-15A

The Clone to the right is observed to fire 2 shots in 2 frames.

The two frames in question:





Obviously, that's 25 shots per second.

25 x 60 = 1,500 rounds per minute
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Clone attacking Crab Droid (Armor Deflection)

Weapon: DC-15S

A Clone attacks a Crab Droid- his blasts don't penetrate it's thick leg armor plates.



2 shots in 8 frames

8 / 2 = 4

25 / 4 = 6.25

6.25 X 60 = 375 rounds per minute

Semi-automatic

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Clone attacking Crab Droid (from above)

Weapon: DC-15S

The intrepid Clone jumps on top of his target to bypass it's armor.



3 shots in 9 frames

9 / 3 = 3

25 / 3 = 8 1/3

8 1/3 x 60 = 500 rounds per minute

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Battle Droid firing at Obi-Wan Kenobi while riding Boga

Weapon: E-5

This B1 fires a stream of blaster bolts at Obi-Wan as he rides past, before a Clonetrooper from across the way blasts him.



11 shots in 25 frames

Obviously 11 shots per second

11 x 60 = 660 rounds per minute

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Commander Bacara fires on Ki-Adi-Mundi

Weapon: DC-15S



Self-explanatory.

2 shots in 4 frames

4 / 2 = 2

25 / 2 = 12.5

60 x 12.5

Rate of Fire: 750 rounds per minute

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Commander Bly kills Aayla Secura

Weapon: DC-15A



I ignored Commander Bly's men as they're all carrying DC-15S rifles (which are well represented generally) and they mostly fire off screen.

2 shots in 4 frames

Rate of Fire = 750 rounds per minute

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501st Clone firing on unidentified target in Jedi Temple



2 shots in 5 frames

5 / 2 = 2.5

25 / 2.5 = 10

60 x 10

Rate of Fire = 600 rounds per minute

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Battle Droid Firing on Darth Vader at Mustafar



2 shots in 5 frames

600 rounds per minute

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CONCLUSIONS

It is clear, as far as I'm concerned, that the automatic rate of fire of blaster rifles and blaster carbine weapons is in most cases comparable and often superior to the rate of fire of many modern military assault rifles.

The figure that most often comes up is from 600 - 750 rounds per minute, with an extreme high end in one case of 1,500 rounds per minute. There are of course, many instances of semi-automatic fire in the film (a few of which have been sampled above), but the capability of automatic fire is obvious.

Let's compare to some modern assault rifles:

Steyr AUG: 650 rounds per minute Equal to Superior

HK G36: 750 rounds per minute Equal

SA-80: 650 rounds per minute Equal to Superior

FAMAS G2: 1,000-1,100 rounds per minute Inferior

AK-47/ AKM: 600 rounds per minute: Superior

AK-74: 600-650 rounds per minute: Equal to Superior

AN-94: 600 rounds per minute cyclic: Superior, 1,800 rounds per minute 2-round burst Inferior

M16A1: 650-750 rounds per minute: Equal to Superior

M16A2: 800 rounds per minute: Inferior

On a final note, these are rougly comparable to the few instances of automatic fire by small arms we see in the Original Trilogy- a Stormtrooper who is shot by Han as he comes through the Detention Block elevator fires two shots in 6 frames (perhaps more), for a ROF of at least 500 rnds per minute. Lando also fires 2 shots in 6 frames at a Stormtrooper during the Bespin escape.

In conclusion, it seems clear that the rates of fire blaster rifles and carbines are capable of in automatic mode is quite comparable to that of most modern day assault rifles, with the high-end being a 2-round burst well in excess of 1,500rpm- possibly similar to the 2-round burst capability of the Russian AN-94.

Clones also generally display a lot of commendable fire-discipline with automatic fire- they limit their bursts to short, controlled ones.

Nice work, but the pic for vader incident has the Commander Bly pic, that's all I can see that's wrong atm and even it's cosmetical.

Fucken ... just lemme fix it. EDIT: fixed.

Using PAL format might foul some results, since the film was shot in 24fps...

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Using PAL format might foul some results, since the film was shot in 24fps...

Not by a significant margin. As with all analyses of this nature, they're not as precise as we hope, but they will serve.

Vympel
Nice. Not for precision, but it gives a general idea.

Actually, did you do anything similar for blaster bolt speeds? There's a common theme running here or there that blaster bolts are very slow in flight compared to bullets.

Stas Bush wrote:Vympel
Nice. Not for precision, but it gives a general idea.

Actually, did you do anything similar for blaster bolt speeds? There's a common theme running here or there that blaster bolts are very slow in flight compared to bullets.

Most are slower, some are as fast. It really depends on distance. The Clone scouts firing on Kasyyyk are ~1,000m from their target, for example (determined on SB.com). I'll have to check it at some point.

Blaster bolts do seem to have variable speeds, even when fired from the same model of blaster. I wonder what significance this has.


Btw, has anyone noticed that during the scene with the 212th's intrepid crab-jumping clone, his blaster rifle sounds quite different from most others we hear? At least, there's some audible weapon fire that doesn't sound like most blasters.

The scene in which the battle droid fires on Obi-Wan on the Boga, that's some serious punch the E-5 is packing. I had never really thought of that before.

Cykeisme wrote:Blaster bolts do seem to have variable speeds, even when fired from the same model of blaster. I wonder what significance this has.

Somebody a while ago suggested that the blaster calculates the distance to the target, and puts more energy into the kinetic part of the bolt the further it goes. So the bolt takes the same amount of time to reach its target, regardless of how far it goes (well, there are limits). But, I don't really know.

That was me. And it got shot down because they said it was too overcomplicated and confabulated, but how else can we explain the discrepencies if we suspend disbelief?

Congratulations on finding the THX reference in ROTS (I missed that 'till now)!

defanatic wrote:

Cykeisme wrote:Blaster bolts do seem to have variable speeds, even when fired from the same model of blaster. I wonder what significance this has.

Somebody a while ago suggested that the blaster calculates the distance to the target, and puts more energy into the kinetic part of the bolt the further it goes. So the bolt takes the same amount of time to reach its target, regardless of how far it goes (well, there are limits). But, I don't really know.

Suppose it's the other way around and bolt velocity is simply higher with a higher powered shot. That makes a lot more sense if you ask me. Cause and effect.

Of course, that idea may not hold up either under scrutiny. The only observable fact is that bolt speed goes up with distance, just like with turbolaser bolts.

Kurgan wrote:
Congratulations on finding the THX reference in ROTS (I missed that 'till now)!

Eh?

Darth Fanboy wrote:

Kurgan wrote:
Congratulations on finding the THX reference in ROTS (I missed that 'till now)!

Eh?

The last few characters on the back of the battle droid resemble the characters "1138." Such messages are hidden in all of the prequel films, in homage to one of Lucas' early works.

The only observable fact is that bolt speed goes up with distance, just like with turbolaser bolts.

Blaster bolts? Where can I see that? The ones in the O.T. seemed to move with pretty constant speed.

Cykeisme wrote:Btw, has anyone noticed that during the scene with the 212th's intrepid crab-jumping clone, his blaster rifle sounds quite different from most others we hear? At least, there's some audible weapon fire that doesn't sound like most blasters.

Yes, the blaster has more of a traditional automatic slug-thrower sound to it. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

Master of Ossus wrote:
The last few characters on the back of the battle droid resemble the characters "1138." Such messages are hidden in all of the prequel films, in homage to one of Lucas' early works.

I know about THX 1138, I didn't know they'd been hiding messages in the PT though, thanks. Although I still can't see the 1138, but that's probably due to me cranking down the brightness on the screen to minimize headache inducing light.

Srynerson wrote:

Cykeisme wrote:Btw, has anyone noticed that during the scene with the 212th's intrepid crab-jumping clone, his blaster rifle sounds quite different from most others we hear? At least, there's some audible weapon fire that doesn't sound like most blasters.

Yes, the blaster has more of a traditional automatic slug-thrower sound to it. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

That's nothing. Blasters in the OT eject casings. (And some of the characters who fire close there eyes before shooting.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:That's nothing. Blasters in the OT eject casings. (And some of the characters who fire close there eyes before shooting.)

Are there certain things we can ignore as gaffes, even under suspension of disbelief?
I don't know what consistent criteria there would be to classify a scene as such, though.


On a random note, I used to think that the DC-17m blaster rifle in Republic Commando fired at a bit high a cyclic rate. Looks like it's actually very movie-like after all, though.
This kinda blows the idea of "repeating blasters" (that tech guides and rpg books have) out of the water though. Looks like most blaster rifles are capable of multifire and autofire.

Cykeisme wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:That's nothing. Blasters in the OT eject casings. (And some of the characters who fire close there eyes before shooting.)

Are there certain things we can ignore as gaffes, even under suspension of disbelief?
I don't know what consistent criteria there would be to classify a scene as such, though.

Doesn't one of the comic books also show Chewie's bowcastor ejecting brass? Unfortunately I can't remember which one it was (though I don't think it was any of the old Marvel Tales but something made in the '90's or later). Someone might argue those are "Quarrels" but oh well.

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Srynerson wrote:

Cykeisme wrote:Btw, has anyone noticed that during the scene with the 212th's intrepid crab-jumping clone, his blaster rifle sounds quite different from most others we hear? At least, there's some audible weapon fire that doesn't sound like most blasters.

Yes, the blaster has more of a traditional automatic slug-thrower sound to it. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

That's nothing. Blasters in the OT eject casings. (And some of the characters who fire close there eyes before shooting.)

Pictures please, I don't have the ability to freeze frame by frame.

Cykeisme wrote:This kinda blows the idea of "repeating blasters" (that tech guides and rpg books have) out of the water though. Looks like most blaster rifles are capable of multifire and autofire.

Just because blaster rifles are capable of automatic fire does not remove the need for weapons specifically designed for such use. Even in the tech books, some blasters are capable of full-auto (if only for brief periods of time), and the repeating blasters are all large, bulky, and presumably powerful--more analogous to GPMG's than to assault weapons in most cases. Just as the advent of the assault rifle has not rendered true machine guns obsolete, it's doubtful that the burst and full-auto features on rifles would eliminate repeating blasters from anyone's arsenal.

Indeed, that'd be like saying that fully automatic rifles have made light, medium and heavy machine guns obsolete. A fully automatic rifle can't sustain the rate of fire, range, or accuracy of a machine gun, and overheats quicker due to a lighter, thinner barrel. The same would apply to blasters.

Ah, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that in the RPGs, only "repeating blasters" have autofire capability. Instead, what we see is that most blaster rifles are capable of autofire.

I'm aware that constraints such as heat, sustained power output and energy storage probably limits the smaller blasters from sustaining that sort of fire for long.

In particular, I'm sure waste heat is probably a significant problem for a directed-energy weapon that converts energy from chemical (or some exotic) storage into a bolt that does damage primarily through thermal effects.