Leia's Title

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2006-09-12 04:57pm

Reading through some of Mike’s commentaries on Ep 3, I came across this paragraph.

Darth Wong wrote:It stands to reason that Luke would be able to find out all he wants to know about his birth mother if he asked Obi-Wan's ghost, but perhaps Obi-Wan's ghost is not talkative enough to engage in such questions. He might also be able to find out by asking R2-D2, but this might simply not have occurred to him. Since they were born in secret, there would be no official records linking them to Padmé, nor would there be any official records linking Padmé and Anakin Skywalker, so discovering this information through official channels would be a fruitless endeavour. Interestingly enough, despite the wealth and fame of their birth mother, it is possible that neither Luke or Leia ever did figure out who she was. Indeed, there is no indication that Bail Organa's own wife (Leia's adoptive mother) even knew who she was, because Bail could have kept that knowledge from her.

This led me to wonder: if Leia never knew who her mother was, why does she have the title "Princess"? Is there some reason to think that the same monarchical titles used on Naboo are also used on Alderaan? Or does she have some idea of her heritage?

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2006-09-12 05:01pm

Alderaan was a monarchy as well, with the Organa's being the royal family family, IIRC.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-09-12 05:08pm

Bail Organa married into the Alderaan royal family, more accurately: Breha was Queen, so Leia became the princess of Alderaan when she was adopted.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2006-09-12 05:15pm

So we're looking at a lot of cultural similarity between Naboo and Alderaan, then?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-09-12 05:39pm

Only if you consider "a lot of culteral similarity" to include the basic fact that both planets have kings and queens in their government.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-09-12 05:43pm

And that they're not about pushing children into politics.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2006-09-12 06:34pm

Alderaan won't be pushing anyone into politics any time soon. Traitors.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-12 10:38pm

Naboo elects people from a selection of nobles and gives them a royal title for their term in office.
Alderaan has a hereditary monarchy.

And yet both produced people who want freedom and democracy.

Ziggy Stardust · Post by **Ziggy Stardust** » 2006-09-13 12:08am

Cao Cao wrote:And yet both produced people who want freedom and democracy.

Is it really that hard to believe? That out of billions of individuals that at least some would be proponents of democracy? Especially ones that grew up in a time where the galaxy was ruled by a democracy (more or less)?

Archon · Post by **Archon** » 2006-09-13 01:33am

Alderaan is a constitutional monarchy is it not?

atg · Post by **atg** » 2006-09-13 01:55am

Bail Organa married into the Alderaan royal family

Where does that come from? because "Dark Force Rising" says.

Dark Force Rising wrote:"Jorus C'baoth," Winter repeated thoughtfully.

"Wasn't he involved in the big ascendancy flap on Alderaan?"

"That's what the record says," Luke nodded. "You know anything about that?"

"No more than any other Alderaanian, -` Winter said.

Even with her rigid control some of the pain leaked through to her voice, and Luke found himself wincing in sympathy with it. For Leia, he knew, the destruction of Alderaan and the loss of her family was a heartrending but slowly fading ache in the back corners of her mind.

For winter, with her perfect and indelible memory, the pain would probably go on forever. "The question was whether the line of ascent to Viceroy should go to Bail Organa's father or one of the other family lines," Winter continued.

"After the third voting deadlock they appealed to the Senate to mediate the issue. C'baoth was one of the delegation they sent, which took less than a month to decide that the Organas had the proper claim."

Though "Viceroy" could mean that there was also a king, I have always thought that Bail was the ruler of Alderaan.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-13 06:41am

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Cao Cao wrote:And yet both produced people who want freedom and democracy.
Is it really that hard to believe? That out of billions of individuals that at least some would be proponents of democracy? Especially ones that grew up in a time where the galaxy was ruled by a democracy (more or less)?

Not at all. I should've been more specific.
What I meant was that Padme Amidala, former Queen elected from a selection of noble families and Bail Organa, King of Alderaan both claim to revere democracy. Then there's Leia.
Hypocrites, all of them!

As for Alderaan being a constitutional monarchy, the fact that Bail Organa is both the King and the Senator representing his world/sector suggests to me that this monarchy more power than you'd expect for a constitutional one.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2006-09-13 09:29am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Only if you consider "a lot of culteral similarity" to include the basic fact that both planets have kings and queens in their government.

Well, we know that Naboo elects its Queen. I don't know if there's some kind of election for the ruling figures on Alderaan.

I did notice a certain architectural similarity to Naboo in the closing scenes of Ep3, though. I thought one might have been settled by colonists from the other.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-09-13 11:37am

According to the most recent sources, Breha Antilles Organa is the Queen of Alderaan, while Bail Prestor Organa is Prince-Consort, strongly suggesting that the Antilles line is the royal family.

Oddly, though, Bail Antilles, Breha's father, was the Senator for the planet and merely a Prince, not King as would be expected. There's also the fact that his son Raymus was a mere starship captain rather than a member of the government... and the aforementioned fact that Bail Organa's grandfather was in line to the throne.

Basically, the details of Alderaan's government are all screwed up and in need of a bit of retconning. Pena and Wallace style, of course, rather than Traviss style.

As for the cultural similarities of Naboo and Alderaan; they're superficial at best. Alderaan was settled by Coruscanti colonists centuries before the founding of the Republic, while Naboo was settled by Grizzmaltian colonists much more recently.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-09-13 12:26pm

'In line for the throne' does not mean he's an automatic heir. Prince Andrew of England is in line, but both of his nephews and his brother would have to die before he'd be considered.

it is very possible that Bail Organa's granfather was the younger son, nephew, or cousin of the king, and thus if something happened to the Blood Royal, he could inherit. This would make Bail related to his wife by 3-4 removes, which is fairly common amongst nobility. IIRC, Prince Charles was a 4th cousin, twice removed to Princess Diana?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-14 09:43am

Fucking Royals!

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-09-14 07:18pm

Kurgan wrote:Fucking Royals!

The author of this site is a silly, silly man. It's not even worth debunking, is it?

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-09-14 08:43pm

000 wrote:There's also the fact that his son Raymus was a mere starship captain rather than a member of the government...

To be honest, he was the captain of Bail's personal ship.

Maybe he's one of those spunky adventure types that would rather go sailing with the boys than siting behind a desk or something.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-14 09:34pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Fucking Royals!
The author of this site is a silly, silly man. It's not even worth debunking, is it?

You've just bought into the propaganda, man! *takes another toke*

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2006-09-14 10:34pm

Meh, I like her new title better: Jedi Knight.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-14 11:23pm

Bah! She should have never gotten that title. Fucking Lucas and his need to tie up every loose end.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-14 11:56pm

I prefer the title Leia Organa: Traitor to the Empire

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2006-09-15 02:39am

000 wrote:According to the most recent sources, Breha Antilles Organa is the Queen of Alderaan, while Bail Prestor Organa is Prince-Consort, strongly suggesting that the Antilles line is the royal family.

Oddly, though, Bail Antilles, Breha's father, was the Senator for the planet and merely a Prince, not King as would be expected. There's also the fact that his son Raymus was a mere starship captain rather than a member of the government... and the aforementioned fact that Bail Organa's grandfather was in line to the throne.

Basically, the details of Alderaan's government are all screwed up and in need of a bit of retconning. Pena and Wallace style, of course, rather than Traviss style.

As for the cultural similarities of Naboo and Alderaan; they're superficial at best. Alderaan was settled by Coruscanti colonists centuries before the founding of the Republic, while Naboo was settled by Grizzmaltian colonists much more recently.

In Naboo there really is no royalty. Like in TPM and the novel Cloak of Deception every ELECTED person becomes King or Queen. Before Queen Amidala it was King Veruna. He has no relation to Padme. Now im not disclaiming any aristocracay cause it did seem very well that Padme's family is very well off, and they dress in very aristocratic fashions

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-15 04:36am

Remember, once a King or Queen in Naboo, always a King or Queen.

Oops, wrong fantasy!

GrandAdmiralJello · Post by **GrandAdmiralJello** » 2006-09-15 10:26pm

Tychu: Actually, royalty does exist on Naboo. The relatives of the ruling monarch are elevated to the status of royal highness during the monarch's term of office.

Star Wars Galaxies indicates, after all, that the Lake Retreat is reserved for the use of the "Royal family."

Additionally, Padmé Naberrie was elected 'Princess of Theed' (a sort of municipal governor, seperate from the mayor of the city) prior to her terms as queen.