Tantive IV retcon, caused by fan-investigations? 8)

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-28 05:38pm

From the new Star Wars Insider 90:

The CR70 corvette was an unarmed version of the CR90 corvette. Like the CR90, it was produced by Corellian Engineering Corporation.

Tantive IV was originally a CR70 before being upgraded to a CR90.

Hmmm, could this have anything to do with pointing out that the Tantive IV in ROTS is different from the one in ANH? Too much to hope, maybe. 8)

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-09-28 07:13pm

http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/swds/phonys ... ships.html

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-09-28 07:19pm

the differences are a lot more substantial than just a couple of guns

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-28 07:22pm

The DVD commentary for RotS on that ship by Lucas implies it is actually the same ship, just extensively refitted for wartime.
It makes sense to me, it's prettied up in RotS because.. well.. if the Naboo senators are turning up in sleek silver spaceships Alderaan needs something to show them up with.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-28 07:41pm

http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/swds/phonys ... ships.html

Exactly.

Nice to see Rob Coleman's statement get some backup in publishing.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-09-28 07:49pm

They're still too structurally different for this 'upgrade' to be anything less than a trade-in.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-28 07:56pm

Alan Bolte wrote:They're still too structurally different for this 'upgrade' to be anything less than a trade-in.

I'm no expert, but with some hull extensions and an engine refit I can see the RotS ship becoming the one in ANH.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-28 08:39pm

Or it could just be a different ship. It's never referred to by name. It's a common style of ship. I don't see the need for this EU-standard silliness.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2006-09-28 11:01pm

Alan Bolte wrote:They're still too structurally different for this 'upgrade' to be anything less than a trade-in.

There's real naval history precedent where a ship's "refit" would essential involve raising the ship's bell, sliding in an entirely new hull and then putting the ship's bell back. It often related to the Powers That Be refusing to fund a new ship but approving maintenance and refit requests.

Sometimes you see the opposite occur (the B-50 is really a B-29D) and in systems a wholly new radar might be called a modification (SPS-48E is really a new radar and not a modification of SPS-48C)

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2006-09-29 12:19am

phongn wrote:
Alan Bolte wrote:They're still too structurally different for this 'upgrade' to be anything less than a trade-in.
There's real naval history precedent where a ship's "refit" would essential involve raising the ship's bell, sliding in an entirely new hull and then putting the ship's bell back. It often related to the Powers That Be refusing to fund a new ship but approving maintenance and refit requests.

To amplify your point, I posted an example of a similarly extreme type of retrofit last year (inserting 73 feet into the middle of an existing ship): http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... t=#1644409

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-29 12:45am

I think that what's being stated in the OP is right: They screwed up with the Tantive IV and it has been pointed out to Leland Chee and others on the Official Forums and elsewhere, hence this retcon.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-09-29 02:52am

Occums razor people.

Whats easier, that it's the same ship, but totally overhauled and rebuilt. Or, that they guy just called more then one ship TantiveIV

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-29 02:53am

Whats easier, that it's the same ship, but totally overhauled and rebuilt. Or, that they guy just called more then one ship TantiveIV

*cough*Enterprise*cough*

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-09-30 12:59am

Cao Cao wrote:The DVD commentary for RotS on that ship by Lucas implies it is actually the same ship, just extensively refitted for wartime.
It makes sense to me, it's prettied up in RotS because.. well.. if the Naboo senators are turning up in sleek silver spaceships Alderaan needs something to show them up with.

So much for Alderaan being a peaceful planet "we have no weapons".

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-09-30 01:11am

Since the Alderaanians pretty much are the Rebel Alliance in the films, that pacifist schtick was always a huge crock.

Post by **Simplicius** » 2006-09-30 01:33am

phongn wrote:There's real naval history precedent where a ship's "refit" would essential involve raising the ship's bell, sliding in an entirely new hull and then putting the ship's bell back. It often related to the Powers That Be refusing to fund a new ship but approving maintenance and refit requests.

The USS Constellation is a prime example of how the US Navy obtained new warships by spending money authorized for refitting old ones. The Constellation currently preserved today was built in 1854, but incorporated a few timbers from the original in order to preserve the pretense and justify the expenditure.

For further reading, I recommend Sailing Warships of the US Navy by Don Canney. He covers the construction during this interwar period rather well.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-30 01:50am

If someone wanted it to be the same Tantive from ANH, why didn't they just scan the original model and then slap a new digital paint job on it? Are there any scenes where you can see the Playboy pinup in the ROTS version if it was there?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-30 01:52am

Maybe they DIDN'T want it to be the same ship. I don't recall it being specified as the T-IV, and even if they referred to it by name it could just be like 'Air Force One'. I call fan bullshit - who fucking cares? They got a new car in twenty years, big deal.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-30 01:57am

I really dislike how Lucas tried to tie everything together from the PT to the OT especially since it was done so badly. This is just one more thing that got fucked up.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-30 05:02am

Rob Coleman said it was different but obviously from the same factory. Look at Poe's link.

Now at least, they decide to follow it. :p

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-30 05:55am

nightmare wrote:
Cao Cao wrote:The DVD commentary for RotS on that ship by Lucas implies it is actually the same ship, just extensively refitted for wartime.
It makes sense to me, it's prettied up in RotS because.. well.. if the Naboo senators are turning up in sleek silver spaceships Alderaan needs something to show them up with.
So much for Alderaan being a peaceful planet "we have no weapons".

I always viewed that as a lie, Leia's last desperate attempt to stop the annihilation of Alderaan.

Edit: I must apologise, what I said is only alluded to on the DVD commentary and not by Lucas.
I was confusing the commentary with the following quotes from The Art of Star Wars Episode III:

Here is the blockade runner in it's peacetime Alderaan version, without weapons or bulky armor

He [Lucas] also approves of an idea whereby the ship could be reverse-engineered from it's Episode IV Rebel version to an earlier peacetime version of itself.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2006-09-30 11:23am

Simplicius wrote:
phongn wrote:There's real naval history precedent where a ship's "refit" would essential involve raising the ship's bell, sliding in an entirely new hull and then putting the ship's bell back. It often related to the Powers That Be refusing to fund a new ship but approving maintenance and refit requests.
The USS Constellation is a prime example of how the US Navy obtained new warships by spending money authorized for refitting old ones. The Constellation currently preserved today was built in 1854, but incorporated a few timbers from the original in order to preserve the pretense and justify the expenditure.

The Constellation, the "repairs" of the Puritan and the Miantonomoh monitors, even (albeit not a total replacement) the Japanese Kongo battlecruisers / fast battleships, which were lengthened by 34 feet and widened by 4, went from coal to oil and more than doubled horsepower, and had a 25% increase in tonnage while increasing speed 11%.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-09-30 01:19pm

I'm pretty sure it's called TIV in the RotS novelization.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-10-01 07:34am

Vympel wrote:I'm pretty sure it's called TIV in the RotS novelization.

Yes, that's true.

The quote from the The Art of Star Wars Episode III was interesting...

Anyway, it's positive that this finally was recognized officially. Does the article say anything about the length or scale of the ship prior to being upgraded?

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2006-10-01 11:31am

VT-16 wrote:
Whats easier, that it's the same ship, but totally overhauled and rebuilt. Or, that they guy just called more then one ship TantiveIV
*cough*Enterprise*cough*

Is an example of both, actually.