Not a whole lot, IIRC. He usually makes a point not to kill innocents. He even killed a copycat vigilante because of his disdain for collateral damage.The Yosemite Bear wrote:I wonder how many innocent by standers frank kills?
THe Penguin is the smartest man in the DCverse
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Speaking of sparing innocents: Is it my imagination, or in the picture Shep posted Frank is deliberately trying not to kill the butler? He's completely uninjured, and while a stream of bullets passes of uncomfortably close, it doesn't seem to be going for him.SAMAS wrote:Not a whole lot, IIRC. He usually makes a point not to kill innocents. He even killed a copycat vigilante because of his disdain for collateral damage.The Yosemite Bear wrote:I wonder how many innocent by standers frank kills?
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Back to the Original Topic - the talking heads make the same point in The Dark Knight Returns, so it's not like the idea is revolutionary. Didn't Joker make the same comment a lot in the AU?
Hell, I was watching Spider-Man cartoon episodes with my little brother on the weekend and one of the two-bit supervillains begged Spidey to save him from falling to his death - because that's what heroes do!
Hell, I was watching Spider-Man cartoon episodes with my little brother on the weekend and one of the two-bit supervillains begged Spidey to save him from falling to his death - because that's what heroes do!
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Yeah, I remember in one issue of Hitman... Tommy and Nat are walking down the street when fifty ninjas with swords and crap come leaping down from the top of a building. The guys whip out their guns and kill the whole lot of them.
Nat: "They ain't here for me. Dudes I know get into a gunfight, they remember to bring a gun."
And afterward it's never mentioned again. Going by Hitman, the GCPD is almost totally oblivious.
Nat: "They ain't here for me. Dudes I know get into a gunfight, they remember to bring a gun."
And afterward it's never mentioned again. Going by Hitman, the GCPD is almost totally oblivious.
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hey it's a good target, whose going to miss them?TheDarkling wrote:Frank Castle isn't a hero; he is a serial killer who just happens to target scum.Molyneux wrote: Because it's about as heroic as winning a bar fight with the aid of a chainsaw.
which is why most serial killer's target homeless and prostitues.
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Why should we put aside? As long as Frank is killing known villains and not innocents then it's a good thing.DEATH wrote:So would be executing anyone suspected - You'd save the problems of the expensive legal system and cut out any criminals escaping.It may not be "heroic" but it's effective.
(Wank about Frank never killing anyone innocent aside).
Yeah, cause who needs those pesky checks and balances? As long as a known and unstable vigilantee decides who lives and dies, there's no harm done, right? Because these people are "known villains"?MadSorcerer wrote:Why should we put aside? As long as Frank is killing known villains and not innocents then it's a good thing.
Jesus. Sometimes, newbies pick the most fitting usernames.
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Mild spoilers
At least as portrayed in MAX (maybe by Garth Ennis in general), he has consciously taken measures to avoid collateral damage and cited that as the reason; in "Slavers" he specifically planned a house clearing to ensure no firefight, and in the current "Man of Stone" arc he's taking the fight to the mountains rather than Kabul. In the first three arcs there weren't many (if any) such confrontations with the risk thereof, so the only time where I found MAX Punisher questionable was in the fourth arc, "Up and Down, Black is White."
P.S. He doesn't seem to have been as clear about it in the "Barracuda," especially not at the end, but that was a bad, somewhat out of character (for the writer) arc.
P.S. He doesn't seem to have been as clear about it in the "Barracuda," especially not at the end, but that was a bad, somewhat out of character (for the writer) arc.
"Yee's proposal is exactly the sort of thing I would expect some Washington legal eagle to do. In fact, it could even be argued it would be unrealistic to not have a scene in the next book of, say, a Congressman Yee submit the Yee Act for consideration. " - bcoogler on this
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"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet
Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread
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Do you know what "known villain" means? It's when you know without a doubt that a person is guilty. And if you know someone committed a crime like murder or rape and was going to do it again what would be the harm in putting them down? It doesn't hurt society; one can argue that it improves it.Eleas wrote:Yeah, cause who needs those pesky checks and balances? As long as a known and unstable vigilantee decides who lives and dies, there's no harm done, right? Because these people are "known villains"?MadSorcerer wrote:Why should we put aside? As long as Frank is killing known villains and not innocents then it's a good thing.
Jesus. Sometimes, newbies pick the most fitting usernames.
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So? Just because everyone in the world knew that O.J, Michael Jackson, and Charles Manson did there respective evil deeds, but the fuckers still deserved a trial.MadSorcerer wrote:Do you know what "known villain" means? It's when you know without a doubt that a person is guilty.
Careful when fighting monsters youngling, you just might become one.MadSorcerer wrote:And if you know someone committed a crime like murder or rape and was going to do it again what would be the harm in putting them down?
Mass murder doesn’t harm society? Bullshit. I’m sorry buddy but going around killing people is never helpful for society, no matter how you spin it.MadSorcerer wrote:It doesn't hurt society; one can argue that it improves it.
Think of the grief Frank causes to those mobsters friends and families. Many of which probably wouldn’t have a problem with there executions if they were decided by a court, not a fucking vigilantly.
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Drunk Monkey wrote:So? Just because everyone in the world knew that O.J, Michael Jackson, and Charles Manson did there respective evil deeds, but the fuckers still deserved a trial.MadSorcerer wrote:Do you know what "known villain" means? It's when you know without a doubt that a person is guilty.
Careful when fighting monsters youngling, you just might become one.MadSorcerer wrote:And if you know someone committed a crime like murder or rape and was going to do it again what would be the harm in putting them down?
Mass murder doesn’t harm society? Bullshit. I’m sorry buddy but going around killing people is never helpful for society, no matter how you spin it.MadSorcerer wrote:It doesn't hurt society; one can argue that it improves it.
Think of the grief Frank causes to those mobsters friends and families. Many of which probably wouldn’t have a problem with there executions if they were decided by a court, not a fucking vigilantly.[/quote]
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The previous post was a mistake. Sorry.
So going around killing people akin to the Joker or Hitler wouldn't help society? If Batman had killed the Joker the third time he escaped many people would still be alive or sane. That seems like a plus.
Also do you seriously expect me to care about grieving mobsters? You have to be joking. Mobsters callously rip families a part all the time and know we're suppose to care about them?
Except we don't know if they were responsible for there deeds. A known villain would be someone like Hitler.Drunk Monkey wrote:So? Just because everyone in the world knew that O.J, Michael Jackson, and Charles Manson did there respective evil deeds, but the fuckers still deserved a trial.MadSorcerer wrote:Do you know what "known villain" means? It's when you know without a doubt that a person is guilty.
Better to be a monster than a person like Batman who never gets anything done. People would be a lot safer if he killed the Joker or any of his other enemies.Drunk Monkey wrote:Careful when fighting monsters youngling, you just might become one.MadSorcerer wrote:And if you know someone committed a crime like murder or rape and was going to do it again what would be the harm in putting them down?
Drunk Monkey wrote:Mass murder doesn’t harm society? Bullshit. I’m sorry buddy but going around killing people is never helpful for society, no matter how you spin it.MadSorcerer wrote:It doesn't hurt society; one can argue that it improves it.
Think of the grief Frank causes to those mobsters friends and families. Many of which probably wouldn’t have a problem with there executions if they were decided by a court, not a fucking vigilantly.
So going around killing people akin to the Joker or Hitler wouldn't help society? If Batman had killed the Joker the third time he escaped many people would still be alive or sane. That seems like a plus.
Also do you seriously expect me to care about grieving mobsters? You have to be joking. Mobsters callously rip families a part all the time and know we're suppose to care about them?
And yet even those accomplices of Hitler that chose not to put a bullet to their brains and were caught were tried. Their punishments, up to and including execution, were not decided by individuals but by the due process of law.MadSorcerer wrote:
Except we don't know if they were responsible for there deeds. A known villain would be someone like Hitler.
No, it isn't. Because once an individual starts believing that they are the sole arbiter of "justice" they are prone to making decisions based on their own subjective morality, not the wider code of ethics that informs actual justice. Frank Castle only spares people he thinks are innocent, and, well, he's mentally unstable and should be in a loony bin.Better to be a monster than a person like Batman who never gets anything done. People would be a lot safer if he killed the Joker or any of his other enemies.
No, it just creates something just as dangerous as the person you just killed. If Batman had killed the Joker, he would have been a murderer. The continuing failure of the DC's Justice system to execute the Joker after following the due process of law notwithstanding.So going around killing people akin to the Joker or Hitler wouldn't help society? If Batman had killed the Joker the third time he escaped many people would still be alive or sane. That seems like a plus.
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Well, so far it seems like Frank's choices have been sound - the people he's killed happen to be guilty, according to that wide code of ethics that informs actual justice you've mentioned.
They allow the likes of Superman and whatnot to punch villains into the sun, then why not allow Frank to put a bullet in a rapist's brain? If comic book physics differs from that of reality, then maybe comic book psychology does too
They allow the likes of Superman and whatnot to punch villains into the sun, then why not allow Frank to put a bullet in a rapist's brain? If comic book physics differs from that of reality, then maybe comic book psychology does too
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Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
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What happens if he keeps on escaping and killing? Will the state go "okay, back to your cell" and then he breaks out and murders everyone again, what? "Time for your lockdown time"?
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
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Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
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Mildest of spoilerage
Incidentally, that's the topic of the next arc, "Widowmaker." (Albeit it's the wives as the antagonists -- but in a preview page, he kills the female of a couple.)Think of the grief Frank causes to those mobsters friends and families. Many of which probably wouldn’t have a problem with there executions if they were decided by a court, not a fucking vigilantly.
"Yee's proposal is exactly the sort of thing I would expect some Washington legal eagle to do. In fact, it could even be argued it would be unrealistic to not have a scene in the next book of, say, a Congressman Yee submit the Yee Act for consideration. " - bcoogler on this
"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet
Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread
"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet
Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread
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Well, if the justice system is that fucked up, you can't really criticize citizens who take the law into their own hands and slaughter bad guys, citizens who take the law into their own hands and slaughter bad guys...responsibly
I'm sure there's a wise saying I've heard that applies to that...uhhh...I think it was from the Punisher movie
I'm sure there's a wise saying I've heard that applies to that...uhhh...I think it was from the Punisher movie
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shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Re: Mildest of spoilerage
Apparently that couple were child molesters.Edward Yee wrote:Incidentally, that's the topic of the next arc, "Widowmaker." (Albeit it's the wives as the antagonists -- but in a preview page, he kills the female of a couple.)Think of the grief Frank causes to those mobsters friends and families. Many of which probably wouldn’t have a problem with there executions if they were decided by a court, not a fucking vigilantly.
"There are times I'd like to get my hands on God." - Frank Castle