Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

[LadyTevar]

Oh yes, I'm pretty sure that's where the show is heading, Tysroc. After all, committing Fraticide was the reason why Cain was cursed, so it'd surely be a damn good reason to be judged as Fallen. Malcolm is going to have to hide Det Douche not ony from the rest of the cops, so he doesn't blow Malcolm's plans, but also hide him from Amenandiel, who would not be real happy with the complication. I also think that Mazeen's feather keepsake is going to be the only think that saves whomever Malcolm does shoot. (Three possibilities -- Lucifer (protecting Chloe), Chloe (protecting Lucifer), or Mazeen (protecting Lucifer). The long-shot is Det. Douche (protecting Chloe & Lucifer) )

But I'm still grinning over Lucifer realizing he didn't WANT to take advantage of drunken Chloe, and the church choir response to his "prayer".

Now, I just have to find what song/s Lucifer and Father Frank were playing on the piano. It sounded SO DAMN FAMILIAR, especially with the list of bands the padre had played with before going to the Church.

[Tsyroc]

Finally got an answer in regards to Lucifer's new found vulnerability. Very interesting.

The latest episode, St. Lucifer, was okay. Mostly because it did a lot of things. It sort of resolved several things that have been sitting around for awhile and it kicked off a few new ones.

No Trixie.

Amanadiel and Maze.

Lucifer's interactions with Malcolm and Dan were good and should lead to some interesting things in the future.

Lucifer pretty much used every one of the abilities we've seen him use so far this season. It was starting to look like his floaty coin trick had gone away and he wasn't going to do the Devil eye/face thing again.

[General Zod]

So . . .there's a Preacher TV show coming out soon, and the premise centers around a child spawned from an angel and a demon getting their freak on to spur off a huge Cain of events. Anyone want to wager that Maize and Amenadiel are the proud parents? Especially with Lucifer Season 2?

[Tsyroc]

So . . .there's a Preacher TV show coming out soon, and the premise centers around a child spawned from an angel and a demon getting their freak on to spur off a huge Cain of events. Anyone want to wager that Maize and Amenadiel are the proud parents? Especially with Lucifer Season 2?

Preacher is based on the comic of the same name. I don't know if the two series have any ties.


I do wonder if there could end up being some "fallout" from Amenadiel and Maze getting it on. In the comics Maze is supposed to be the daughter of Lilith and a demon so there's a little more to her than just being a demon. Not that they've said anything like that in the show, but it does make me think she might be a bit more likely to be able to have children than just a demon.

[Tsyroc]

Clarification.

I am not sure whether the Preacher and Lucifer comics interact at all. They both are in DC's Vertigo imprint but I haven't read any of Preacher.

[General Zod]

I was skimming through Preacher a few weeks ago and they definitely at least mention all the badness of Lucifer leaving hell, so there's some interconnection.

[Vendetta]

I was skimming through Preacher a few weeks ago and they definitely at least mention all the badness of Lucifer leaving hell, so there's some interconnection.

No, they're not connected at all.

Satan in Preacher is dead, the first victim of the Saint of Killers' guns after he forged them from the metal of the angel of death's sword. (in the Saint of Killers special) He's also the stereotypical big red demon guy.

[General Zod]

Welp. There goes that theory.

[Elheru Aran]

Yeah, they're completely separate universes. Lucifer is at least nominally connected to the DCU pre-52 thanks to spinning off from Sandman, which is tenuously connected to start with. Preacher doesn't have any superheroics going on; the weirdest things in it are the angels/demons (and we never really see any demons, actually, IIRC, apart from the one who fucks an angel) and vampires like Cassidy. No Superman, no Batman, no nothing. Supes and Bats didn't show up in Lucifer either, but at least it was spun off from Sandman.

[Vendetta]

When Lucifer was being published, there was an almost absolute rule that there be no crossover between Vertigo and "mainstream" DC, because they didn't want to deal with "the kiddies" picking up a Vertigo book and finding it was full of sex and swearing.

(John Constantine got kinda grandfathered in despite being a Vertigo book).



All this said, the Preacher TV series is likely to have about as much to do with the original source material as this version of Lucifer does.

[Elheru Aran]

IIRC, Swamp Thing, Sandman and Hellblazer were the big three of Vertigo's start; Animal Man was folded into it as well. And then there were all kinds of wonky independent comics like Invisibles, Transmetropolitan, and so forth. I kinda miss Vertigo, honestly. Some good stuff came out of that.

[Tsyroc]

The penultimate episode had everyone in it (still not enough Trixie though).

Nods to the comic.

"You're supposed to be blonde". "I get that a lot".

Mike Carey is the name of one of the dead people in this episode.


Lucifer being Lucifer:

"Detective Douche and Detective Stache".

[LadyTevar]

And Detective Stache killed the preacher. Lovely.

Great fight with Amenandiel, loved Maze's reaction to it as well.

[Tsyroc]

Final episode of the season was good.

I really liked the scene where Lucifer called Dan by his actual name.

It looks like there could be all sorts of interesting things next season.

What we saw of Hell was interesting. Kind of looked like a labyrinth made of basalt with ashes falling like a very light snow.

Speculation on "Mother":

Ashera - The mostly erased from history "wife of god"?

Lilith - aka the mother of all demons.

Lilith would fit better with the source material since she is Maze's mother in the comics but I am not strongly confident one way or another.


I'm curious if there will be any changes in Lucifer after his "talk" with "Dad". Did he get a full on reset back to his winged self, or just back to where he was before he got shot?

Will there be any changes in Amenadiel or Maze after she used the feather from Lucifer's wings to save him?

If Dan is in jail maybe we'll get to see a bit more of Lucifer and Trixie next season.

I'm suspecting that we'll get a bit more of Amenadiel and Lucifer begrudgingly working together. I also look forward to more of them and Dr. Linda. I'm really waiting for her to find out that Lucifer is not speaking in metaphors during his sessions.

[LadyTevar]

For Lucifer to call her "Mum", she can't be Lilith. The angels (by all bibical mythos) were already alive and fighting before Adam and Lilith were created.
That is, if Adam's First Wife *was* created by God at the same time, and wasn't the Mother of Demons in the first place. If we go by Lilith Mother of Demons as existing before Adam, and deciding to have a little fun with God's pet project, then that theory holds water. Hell, she could have even been the Serpent in the Garden, getting a little payback at both God and Adam by giving her replacement a nice shiny bite of the Fruit of Knowledge. Which would have been a very nice reason for her own comfy cell in Hell, as we know God was pretty pissed about that.

Still --- very nice to see Lucifer and Amenandiel cut loose and get a little frustration out on the thugs. Det. Dan repents and pays for his crime(s), and Det. Porn-tache gets sent back to Hell. Hopefully with some new punishments, as I *really* wanted Lucifer to go full Demon on his ass after he hurt Trixie. I think Lucifer was even glad to see Trixie... and if she'd not been there, we'd have seen a full on romantic moment between Lucy and Chloe.

My Predictions for Next Season:
Maze will be the first to find Mum, and that's where she'll be working out her feeling for Amenandiel.
Amenandiel will also have to deal with not just being Hell's Guardian, but his feelings for Maze. He's taken the first step by admitting he was wrong, and being sorry for fucking up. Now, where will he go?
More Lucifer/Trixie moments, as Lucifer comes to terms with his feelings for Chloe, and more exploration of just why Chloe is his weakness. My bet is God tweaked the "Adam's Rib" rule (that one perfect person that makes a human's life complete) so Lucifer really does get to have the Mortal Life Experience.
Mum Herself will (hopefully) be handled as an over-reaching arc, playing out in the background, gaining more influence as the season ages. It worked **VERY WELL** for this season, so they shouldn't mess with success. Whatever name they give her, I hope they don't copy "THE DARKNESS" from Supernatural too closely. Even if she's got the same reason for Revenge (locked up since Creation?)

[Tsyroc]

The reason I mentioned Lilith is because of the comics and maybe that when Lucifer calls her "Mum" it is more of a nickname for the person that the angels have gone along with even though she has no hand in their creation. If she's "Mum" the same way that "Dad" is dad then I think she has to be more significant than Lilith. That's why I tend to lean towards Ashera or someone similar. I'm just not sure how far they are willing to go away from the Bible.

Lilith is not included in any official Christian dogma that I know of but there are stories of her. Ashera (or God having a "wife") is something that comes up because archaeologists have found evidence of such on sites that are supposed to be for the Hebrew god.

[LadyTevar]

You're right, Biblical was the wrong term. Kabbalistic might be the better term.

You are also right that Lilith is better known than Ashera, both in mysticism and modern culture. Hell, for all we know, Lilith may have been invented by Jewish rabbi to explain why there were remains of a Female Counterpart. Didn't some of the stories of Lilith have her "seducing" God after Adam rejected her?

[General Zod]

For Lucifer to call her "Mum", she can't be Lilith. The angels (by all bibical mythos) were already alive and fighting before Adam and Lilith were created.
That is, if Adam's First Wife *was* created by God at the same time, and wasn't the Mother of Demons in the first place. If we go by Lilith Mother of Demons as existing before Adam, and deciding to have a little fun with God's pet project, then that theory holds water. Hell, she could have even been the Serpent in the Garden, getting a little payback at both God and Adam by giving her replacement a nice shiny bite of the Fruit of Knowledge. Which would have been a very nice reason for her own comfy cell in Hell, as we know God was pretty pissed about that.

Still --- very nice to see Lucifer and Amenandiel cut loose and get a little frustration out on the thugs. Det. Dan repents and pays for his crime(s), and Det. Porn-tache gets sent back to Hell. Hopefully with some new punishments, as I *really* wanted Lucifer to go full Demon on his ass after he hurt Trixie. I think Lucifer was even glad to see Trixie... and if she'd not been there, we'd have seen a full on romantic moment between Lucy and Chloe.

My Predictions for Next Season:
Maze will be the first to find Mum, and that's where she'll be working out her feeling for Amenandiel.
Amenandiel will also have to deal with not just being Hell's Guardian, but his feelings for Maze. He's taken the first step by admitting he was wrong, and being sorry for fucking up. Now, where will he go?
More Lucifer/Trixie moments, as Lucifer comes to terms with his feelings for Chloe, and more exploration of just why Chloe is his weakness. My bet is God tweaked the "Adam's Rib" rule (that one perfect person that makes a human's life complete) so Lucifer really does get to have the Mortal Life Experience.
Mum Herself will (hopefully) be handled as an over-reaching arc, playing out in the background, gaining more influence as the season ages. It worked **VERY WELL** for this season, so they shouldn't mess with success. Whatever name they give her, I hope they don't copy "THE DARKNESS" from Supernatural too closely. Even if she's got the same reason for Revenge (locked up since Creation?)

Maybe they could tie it in with Constantine's brujeria. Since they're both set in the same universe.