What if Batman was poor?

[ray245]

Granted, however the MO would likely have been similar enough. The main difference is Bruce is probably more intelligent and capable of figuring out how to live a relatively normal civilian life while engaging in vigilante justice.

Or a lifetime in Gotham's shitty neighbourhoods, as opposed to stately Wayne Manor, gives him a different outlook on things and he becomes more like The Punisher.

At which point he ceases to be Batman but just another character.

[Gandalf]

Indeed. I guess it's easy to be the morally unbreakable Batman when you can retreat to stately Wayne Manor each night.

[Crazedwraith]

IIRC Stan Lee's Batman re-imagination of Batman was a poor black dude, an ex-con and a boxer. I forget where the bats came into it.

eta: Considering every other Elseword is batman related, I bet there's a semi-canonical take on a poor Bruce Wayne somewhere.

[Elheru Aran]

Granted, however the MO would likely have been similar enough. The main difference is Bruce is probably more intelligent and capable of figuring out how to live a relatively normal civilian life while engaging in vigilante justice.

Or a lifetime in Gotham's shitty neighbourhoods, as opposed to stately Wayne Manor, gives him a different outlook on things and he becomes more like The Punisher.

At which point he ceases to be Batman but just another character.

Depends on how you define Batman. If it's all the toys and gadgets, then that's one thing. But if it's more about the character of Bruce Wayne, the various qualities that build and define him, then he could be Batman with or without money. The main question is how much not having money would affect those specific qualities.

[ray245]

Depends on how you define Batman. If it's all the toys and gadgets, then that's one thing. But if it's more about the character of Bruce Wayne, the various qualities that build and define him, then he could be Batman with or without money. The main question is how much not having money would affect those specific qualities.

If it is the character of Bruce Wayne that can remain utterly incorruptible in the face of those odds, and he is able to acquire the same set of skills ( technological, martial and social-networking skills) then he will acquire those gadgets anyway.

It's not like it's legal for him to drive his company's war machines around Gotham anyway, and he will probably stole some stuff from Lex Luthor instead.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, as I understand it the specific issue they're discussing is a hypothetical more ruthless Bruce, akin to the Punisher. Is that character Batman, or just a run of the mill action hero who happens to dress like a Bat? Of course, you could also ask whether some of the film Batmen are Batmen, by that standard.

I would argue that the core characteristics of Batman (besides being a guy who likes bat cosplaying) are:

1. Superhuman resolve.

2. Commitment to preserving life, reluctance to kill or use guns (some adaptations dispense with this one).

3. Use of fear to intimidate his opponents; psychological warfare.

4. Domineering/controlling personality; poor team player (at least in modern incarnations).

5. His focus is primarily local- while he may take on larger crises, his primary focus is Gotham City.

One might or might not be affected by a more difficult upbringing. It might harden his resolve- or break him.

Two is going to be harder to keep to with fewer resources and options.

Three is still viable, but may require him to adopt more brutal methods to compensate from reduced gimmickry.

Four is the big question. He'll need to be more of a team player in this scenario, I think, but might end up even more isolated by circumstances.

5. Would remain unchanged, or even be increased.

[Elheru Aran]

IIRC Stan Lee's Batman re-imagination of Batman was a poor black dude, an ex-con and a boxer. I forget where the bats came into it.

eta: Considering every other Elseword is batman related, I bet there's a semi-canonical take on a poor Bruce Wayne somewhere.

Red Son Batman was Russian and broke, IIRC. He wore a Russian looking outfit and an ushanka hat with bat ears. His shtick was basically annoying Red Son Superman and coming up with a plan involving capturing Wonder Woman and trying to use her as bait in a plan to kill Superman using red-sun radiation. Something like that.

[Solauren]

Red Son Batman was backed by a resistance, and probably receiving support from the USA

[Raw Shark]

It'd take me about twenty minutes.

[Gandalf]

If it is the character of Bruce Wayne that can remain utterly incorruptible in the face of those odds, and he is able to acquire the same set of skills ( technological, martial and social-networking skills) then he will acquire those gadgets anyway.

A lot of those skills take time to develop. Rich Bruce Wayne has lots of free time. Poor Bruce Wayne has to go to work in order to not die. Also, I question how uncorruptible Bruce Wayne is, given that with all of his professed skills and absurd resourcing, he... beats up muggers one by one. The guy is into violence, but conveniently he's got an outlet.

It'd take me about twenty minutes.

?

[madd0ct0r]

Where has this brain bug that batman is unsocial and therefore incapable of teamwork come from?

The robins, nightwing, batwoman, batgirl, oracle, birds of prey, then he is also member of justice league.


He has far far more allies and team members then most heros. Irl thats a function of age and marketing importance but in comic (as with people in irl) being charming is not needed to attract lotal friends.

Being reliable is. And bats is reliable.

[Jub]

I think a homeless Batman unable to fit into normal society due to the trauma he suffered at a young age who spends his efforts on fighting crime and staying in shape instead of working could be interesting too. He learned to fight in foster homes and on the streets, he's smart but self taught because he was expelled from school for beating up a bully who went after the new kid. His social skills are, at least at first, a mask and underneath he's little better than some of the criminals he catches. The difference is that he has a cause.

His cave is whichever shelter or alley he ends up in each day which makes him hard to track. He bends the law and sometimes steals from rich mafia owned businesses to get by. The mainly fights whatever crimes he comes across but eventually gets caught up in something bigger than he could have anticipated. As the series goes on he works odd jobs at machine and mechanics shops and eventually gets a bat van and some simple weapons and armor.

His exploits and instance on not killing and avoiding guns get him noticed and while a lot of his arrests are catch and release due to the nature of his crusade the police start to respect the lone bat. Much later in this run maybe a 'real' hero notices him and with their resources, we slowly see that Batman we know emerges as a member of the JLA.

[Raw Shark]

It'd take me about twenty minutes.

?

I make friends everywhere I go and can be homeless because I've been homeless. I'm not a bat, I'm an Eagle. Until I die.

[ray245]

A lot of those skills take time to develop. Rich Bruce Wayne has lots of free time. Poor Bruce Wayne has to go to work in order to not die. Also, I question how uncorruptible Bruce Wayne is, given that with all of his professed skills and absurd resourcing, he... beats up muggers one by one. The guy is into violence, but conveniently he's got an outlet.

It's not like all those skills are acquired via money alone? In Nolan's version of Batman, he pretty much lived the life of a guy with no resources.

And how intelligent is poor Bruce Wayne at 10? Could he benefit from some scholarship along the way? He certainly has the will and the skills to become a top athlete in nearly whatever sports he put his mind to. Sports is an avenue which he can exploit to gain more wealth and influences.

[Gandalf]

It's not like all those skills are acquired via money alone? In Nolan's version of Batman, he pretty much lived the life of a guy with no resources.

Well no, he lives as rich Bruce Wayne up until he decides to just walk off into the night as an adult.

And how intelligent is poor Bruce Wayne at 10? Could he benefit from some scholarship along the way? He certainly has the will and the skills to become a top athlete in nearly whatever sports he put his mind to. Sports is an avenue which he can exploit to gain more wealth and influences.

That's still an incredible time sink, and a fragile one at that. From everything I've seen of US sport scholarship programs, he's not getting much out of it except the promise that he might one day be able to play professionally.

[The Romulan Republic]

If it is the character of Bruce Wayne that can remain utterly incorruptible in the face of those odds, and he is able to acquire the same set of skills ( technological, martial and social-networking skills) then he will acquire those gadgets anyway.

A lot of those skills take time to develop. Rich Bruce Wayne has lots of free time. Poor Bruce Wayne has to go to work in order to not die. Also, I question how uncorruptible Bruce Wayne is, given that with all of his professed skills and absurd resourcing, he... beats up muggers one by one. The guy is into violence, but conveniently he's got an outlet.

This is a stereotype of Batman, more than the actual reality of him (though I daresay it depends somewhat on the version). "Hur hur, he's just a rich guy who likes to beat up poor people instead of using his money to solve the problems." Except... he doesn't. Sure, he goes on patrols, and he'll intervene if he catches someone in the act, rich or poor. But his real targets are higher up the food chain. Take Year One- he starts out going after the low-level guys on the street, then works his way up- the real targets are the elite of Gotham, the mob bosses and crooked cops and politicians who the police can't touch, not the random schmucks they're only too happy to rough up. Later on, of course, he spends a lot of his time dealing with Supervillains, who's threat level tends to range from "serial thief or killer with a gimmick" up to cosmic threats.

He also invests a lot of money in charitable endeavors, as well as his war on crime.

Fair point about rich Bruce having more free time to hone his skills, though.

[Batman]

How much of those skills to hone would even be accessible to poor Bruce? Ra's/Lady Shiva/insert random martial arts master of choice may not care about getting paid, but you still have to get to them, and before that, figure out where to find them. Reasonably easy when you have the Wayne Fortune (and likely family connections). Poor street kid Bruce...not so much