Scarlet-Spider vs Jedi

[KK]

If you're going blind, and you say your senses are diminishing, which implies all your senses, then you're a moron and need to retake elementary school English.

No, he doesn't.

If you're going blind, your senses *ARE* diminishing. 4 out of 5 < 5 out of 5.

[KK]

And we'll insist on using Firelord-stomping, Spider-Man, which means Spider-Man's punches are more powerful than the forces generated by blackholes, which doesn't even phase Firelord.

Exactly. I used only average feats for Spidey, and they bitched that I was unfairly using his upper level feats.

If you guys want to dig up the best feats you can from the EU, then don't complain when you'll have to beat a guy whos punches are far greater than black holes.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Their use of the Force includes forseeing the future. If I'm going blind and I said my senses have been diminished, does that mean my other four senses are gone.

If you're going blind, and you say your senses are diminishing, which implies all your senses, then you're a moron and need to retake elementary school English.

Observer, you piece of shit, when the Jedi lose any aspect of their powers, their ability to use the Force diminishes. That doesn't mean they lose all of their Force powers. And you haven't explain why no one noticed the Jedis going from planet-juggling to helpless pansies in a period of ten years.

[Dillon]

If you're going blind, and you say your senses are diminishing, which implies all your senses, then you're a moron and need to retake elementary school English.

No, he doesn't.

If you're going blind, your senses *ARE* diminishing. 4 out of 5 < 5 out of 5.

Jesus Christ, I think I just suffered brain damage reading that. Vision is one of your senses, obviously you have trouble with plurals, you should join Crossover Maniac in his much needed English tutoring.

[Crossover_Maniac]

And we'll insist on using Firelord-stomping, Spider-Man, which means Spider-Man's punches are more powerful than the forces generated by blackholes, which doesn't even phase Firelord.

Exactly. I used only average feats for Spidey, and they bitched that I was unfairly using his upper level feats.

If you guys want to dig up the best feats you can from the EU, then don't complain when you'll have to beat a guy whos punches are far greater than black holes.

Let's not forget that Spider-Man took punches from the Hulk, and the Hulk can produce thunderclaps powerful enough to rip through the entire cosmos.

[KK]

Let's not forget that Spider-Man took punches from the Hulk, and the Hulk can produce thunderclaps powerful enough to rip through the entire cosmos.

Speaking of Hulk's Thunderclaps, which have deflected universal level attacks, been compared to nukes, and have dwarfed the greatest hurricanes in history.

[Crossover_Maniac]

If you're going blind, and you say your senses are diminishing, which implies all your senses, then you're a moron and need to retake elementary school English.

No, he doesn't.

If you're going blind, your senses *ARE* diminishing. 4 out of 5 < 5 out of 5.

Jesus Christ, I think I just suffered brain damage reading that. Vision is one of your senses, obviously you have trouble with plurals, you should join Crossover Maniac in his much needed English tutoring.

Stop bitching about sematics and prove the Jedi went from planet-juggling to pansies due to Darth Sideous's Dark Side powers.

[KK]

Jesus Christ, I think I just suffered brain damage reading that. Vision is one of your senses, obviously you have trouble with plurals, you should join Crossover Maniac in his much needed English tutoring.

If you lose one of your senses, your senses as a whole are diminished. This isn't that complicated.

[KK]

Stop bitching about sematics and prove the Jedi went from planet-juggling to pansies due to Darth Sideous's Dark Side powers.

Even back in TPM, supposedly when the Jedi were uber, it was stated that the Jedi couldn't fight a war. Fighting wars has never been their point.

[Dillon]

Their use of the Force includes forseeing the future. If I'm going blind and I said my senses have been diminished, does that mean my other four senses are gone.

If you're going blind, and you say your senses are diminishing, which implies all your senses, then you're a moron and need to retake elementary school English.

Observer, you piece of shit, when the Jedi lose any aspect of their powers, their ability to use the Force diminishes. That doesn't mean they lose all of their Force powers. And you haven't explain why no one noticed the Jedis going from planet-juggling to helpless pansies in a period of ten years.

First of all, I never claimed Jedi were capable of juggling planets.

Second, the Jedi's diminishing control over the force was gradual, and the council probably did notice it. And what makes you think they didn't notice that the Jedi were getting weaker?

[Dillon]

Stop bitching about sematics and prove the Jedi went from planet-juggling to pansies due to Darth Sideous's Dark Side powers.

Even back in TPM, supposedly when the Jedi were uber, it was stated that the Jedi couldn't fight a war. Fighting wars has never been their point.

You're an idiot.

They couldn't fight in the war because there were only two of them, and the opposition consisted of thousands of battle droids, and dozens of tanks, even Jedi have their limits.

[Crown]

You must be smoking crack.

Better than smoking Wong's cock.

If I am smoking Wong's cock when I am in Melbourne Australia, and he is in Canada, then Wong is hung like a ... well there really isn't an equivalent is there? Damn Mike! You da man!

And be more relevant.

You are claiming that the quote 'Size matters not' is pure rhetoric (which is wrong, but more on that later). And I am asking you to explain to me as to when Yoda said 'That is why you fail' after he demostrated his 'rhetoric' to Luke, to tell me whether or not that was rhetoric or a statement of fact, much like the quote you claim to be a statement of fact 'A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack'.

rhetoric 1. the art of using speech or writing to persuade or influence 2. speech that pretends to significance but lacks true meaning

So we have the following from TESB;

Luke's X-Wing sinks in the swamp, Luke laments that he'll never get it out now, Yoda replies 'So certain are you?' (::hint for the moron:: that was a rhetorical question). Luke argues that moving rocks around is one thing, but moving a 10 tonne (very conservative estimate) odd object is something else entirely. Yoda reprimands him, and tells him 'Size matters not', which you are right in that if you stopped right there it would indeed be rhetoric since he was using language to influence Luke to think more openly, if only Yoda didn't do the following; Prove to Luke that moving an X-Wing was no different than moving rocks!

Rhetoric is defined not only as persuasive language, but also as lacking in substance. Yoda's statement couldn't be rhetoric since he demostrated the truth of it. Do you get it now moron?

And as to the quote 'That is why you fail', it follows after Yoda moved the X-Wing, Luke looks at him un-believing and says 'I don't believe it!' to which Yoda replies 'That is why you fail'. Ergo motherfucker, it wasn't rhetoric, but a statement of Fact!

[Crown]

Since you love using all of these examples out of the EU, then you wouldn't mind using the rest of the EU canon and concede that a Jedi can't Force-choke. And we'll insist on using Firelord-stomping, Spider-Man, which means Spider-Man's punches are more powerful than the forces generated by blackholes, which doesn't even phase Firelord.

Then since we are using the EU, then you won't mind conceeding the arguement based on a post I made 5 pages ago!

EDIT:: 7 pages ago;

And yet Spidey team has gone from reflexes to Webbing to reflexes all the while nitpicking Dark/Light.

my main argument has been, and remains, that a light side jedi would not force choke an opponent

Fine.

Karrde nodded, the last mestery of the beckon call lying abandoned in the Dagobah swamp suddenly falling into plac. "And so you went back to Yoda and asked for help."
"Asked?" Car'das gave a short, self-deprecating laugh. "Not asked, Talon. Demanded."
He shook his head at the memory. "It must have looked quite absurd, really. There I stood, towering over him with a blaster in one hand and my beckon call in the other, threatening to bring my ship and all its awesome weaponry to bear on this short, wizened creature leaning on a staff in front of me. Of courese, I was the single-handed creator of the greatest smuggling organization of all time, while he was nothing but a simple little Jedi Master." He shook his head again.
"I'm suprised he didn't kill you on the spot," Shada said.
"At the time, I almost wished he had," Car'das said ruefully. "It would have been far less humiliating. Instead, he simply took the beckon call and blaster away from me and sent them spinning off into the swamp, then held me suspended a few centimeters above the ground and let me scream and flail to my heart's content.
"And when I finally ran out of strength and breath, he told me I was going to die."

So there we have it. A Jedi wins by default. From the cartoons Spiderman's web slinging isn't a part of him, but rather a tool which he has to re-fill and strap on, ergo, the Jedi can rip them off him with TK ala Darth Vader in bespin, Yoda from the above quote. And then hold Spiderman up with TK. Now Spiderman at this point has lost the fight simply because he can't do anything, where as the Jedi can walk around and do some shopping (all be it with a hovering Spiderman struggling behind him).

Should Spiderman's web be apart of him (like in the movie), then the Jedi pulls a Magneto from (X-Men 1) and forces Spiderman to cross his arms (and thus his webbing 'outlet') accross his own chest, thus stopping Spiderman from using them on anything but himself.

Game. Set. Match.

This thread should have been over 7 pages ago.

[KK]

if only Yoda didn't do the following; Prove to Luke that moving an X-Wing was no different than moving rocks!

Since it did take more effort to lift an X-Wing than to lift rocks, your point is invalidated.

By the way, using the word "moron" all the fucking time just makes you look like a prick.

[KK]

Then since we are using the EU, then you won't mind conceeding the arguement based on a post I made 5 pages ago!

EDIT:: 7 pages ago;

my main argument has been, and remains, that a light side jedi would not force choke an opponent

Fine.

Karrde nodded, the last mestery of the beckon call lying abandoned in the Dagobah swamp suddenly falling into plac. "And so you went back to Yoda and asked for help."
"Asked?" Car'das gave a short, self-deprecating laugh. "Not asked, Talon. Demanded."
He shook his head at the memory. "It must have looked quite absurd, really. There I stood, towering over him with a blaster in one hand and my beckon call in the other, threatening to bring my ship and all its awesome weaponry to bear on this short, wizened creature leaning on a staff in front of me. Of courese, I was the single-handed creator of the greatest smuggling organization of all time, while he was nothing but a simple little Jedi Master." He shook his head again.
"I'm suprised he didn't kill you on the spot," Shada said.
"At the time, I almost wished he had," Car'das said ruefully. "It would have been far less humiliating. Instead, he simply took the beckon call and blaster away from me and sent them spinning off into the swamp, then held me suspended a few centimeters above the ground and let me scream and flail to my heart's content.
"And when I finally ran out of strength and breath, he told me I was going to die."

So there we have it. A Jedi wins by default. From the cartoons Spiderman's web slinging isn't a part of him, but rather a tool which he has to re-fill and strap on, ergo, the Jedi can rip them off him with TK ala Darth Vader in bespin, Yoda from the above quote. And then hold Spiderman up with TK. Now Spiderman at this point has lost the fight simply because he can't do anything, where as the Jedi can walk around and do some shopping (all be it with a hovering Spiderman struggling behind him).

Should Spiderman's web be apart of him (like in the movie), then the Jedi pulls a Magneto from (X-Men 1) and forces Spiderman to cross his arms (and thus his webbing 'outlet') accross his own chest, thus stopping Spiderman from using them on anything but himself.

Game. Set. Match.

This thread should have been over 7 pages ago.

You think WAAAAAAY too highly of yourself if you honestly think that worthless little argument is a brilliant debate-ender.

You have to actually take Spider-Man's abilities into consideration for an argument to be worth a shit.

[Crown]

if only Yoda didn't do the following; Prove to Luke that moving an X-Wing was no different than moving rocks!

Since it did take more effort to lift an X-Wing than to lift rocks, your point is invalidated.

Bullshit. It proves that it wasn't rhetoric, ergo my point was very much validated. Also did you see Yoda moving rocks about in TESB, because I sure as hell didn't. Do we somehow ignore that he is close to fucking death?

By the way, using the word "moron" all the fucking time just makes you look like a prick.

Ohhh, poor baby. Do you want a tissue?

You think WAAAAAAY too highly of yourself if you honestly think that worthless little argument is a brilliant debate-ender.

You have to actually take Spider-Man's abilities into consideration for an argument to be worth a shit.

And the rebutle in all that grand standing was, where exactly?

[KK]

Bullshit. It proves that it wasn't rhetoric, ergo my point was very much validated. Also did you see Yoda moving rocks about in TESB, because I sure as hell didn't. Do we somehow ignore that he is close to fucking death?

We saw Luke moving rocks, and he did it with considerably less effort than it took for Yoda to lift the X-Wing. Near dead or not, Yoda puts Luke to shame at this point.

In AOTC, Anakin floats balls and fruit around like absolutely nothing, Yoda had to exert some effort to stop rocks, and he damn near popped an artery straining to stop the pillar.

I fail to see how you could possibly support that size doesn't actually matter.

Ohhh, poor baby. Do you want a tissue?

You hurl insults around, and I'm the childish one.

It's not even the insults. It's the arrogance. I could handle you spouting off "moron" and "dumbass" all the time if you earned the right to do so. You count your ducks before they hatch. Case in point, this shit where you assume that Crown entering the topic with one tiny point is going to make the other side instantly concede the entire debate.

And the rebutle in all that grand standing was, where exactly?

Aside from the dozen or more times it's already been shot down, you mean?

1. You don't take Spider-Man's speed into account. At all. Any argument woth a fuck would at least acknowledge the other character. You make it seem like this is a Jedi vs. Spider-Man naked and tied to a tree. Before you can claim victory by giving ways for the Jedi to win, you have to prove they'd get a chance to pull any of those stunts off.

2. You assume that the Jedi would know to remove the webshooters before it is too late. You give no reason to assume that.

3. Force TK has always been displayed as the Force-user needing to get a bead on the target or object. They seem to reach out and grab with their minds, same as they would their hand. If the Jedi couldn't get a bead on Spider-Man, it's quite possible he wouldn't be able to grip him with TK.

4. Even if the Jedi pulled this off, Ben could whip out his spider-stingers, which although possibly not powerful enough to be a serious threat, could break the Jedi's concentration enough to lose his TK hold.

Your argument was "Yoda pulled a gun from a guy's hand and levitated him, therefore this debate is over." Sorry, but that's barely worthy of a response.

[Vympel]

1. You don't take Spider-Man's speed into account. At all. Any argument woth a fuck would at least acknowledge the other character. You make it seem like this is a Jedi vs. Spider-Man naked and tied to a tree. Before you can claim victory by giving ways for the Jedi to win, you have to prove they'd get a chance to pull any of those stunts off.

Ah, so Spiderman is going to move so incredibly fast the Jedi with precognition good enough to deflect blasterbolts is going to be utterly incapable of defending himself

2. You assume that the Jedi would know to remove the webshooters before it is too late. You give no reason to assume that.

Who needs to remove them? Simply deflecting them with his lightsabre will suffice just fine, dumbass. After which he can remove them if he finds them annoying. Unless you think that spiderweb shit can somehow cling to a lightsabre blade.

3. Force TK has always been displayed as the Force-user needing to get a bead on the target or object. They seem to reach out and grab with their minds, same as they would their hand. If the Jedi couldn't get a bead on Spider-Man, it's quite possible he wouldn't be able to grip him with TK.

Ah yes, because Spiderman moves SO fast that you practically can't ever see him! Right ......

4. Even if the Jedi pulled this off, Ben could whip out his spider-stingers, which although possibly not powerful enough to be a serious threat, could break the Jedi's concentration enough to lose his TK hold.

Your argument was "Yoda pulled a gun from a guy's hand and levitated him, therefore this debate is over." Sorry, but that's barely worthy of a response.

You can't respond to it- never mind 'barely' respond, you moron fanboy.

[Crown]

Bullshit. It proves that it wasn't rhetoric, ergo my point was very much validated. Also did you see Yoda moving rocks about in TESB, because I sure as hell didn't. Do we somehow ignore that he is close to fucking death?

We saw Luke moving rocks, and he did it with considerably less effort than it took for Yoda to lift the X-Wing. Near dead or not, Yoda puts Luke to shame at this point.

In AOTC, Anakin floats balls and fruit around like absolutely nothing, Yoda had to exert some effort to stop rocks, and he damn near popped an artery straining to stop the pillar.

I fail to see how you could possibly support that size doesn't actually matter.

Yes because Yoda certainly do anything exerting or tasking prior to floating the piller, sure, whatever you say pal... *backs away slowly*

Ohhh, poor baby. Do you want a tissue?

You hurl insults around, and I'm the childish one.

It's not even the insults. It's the arrogance. I could handle you spouting off "moron" and "dumbass" all the time if you earned the right to do so. You count your ducks before they hatch. Case in point, this shit where you assume that Crown entering the topic with one tiny point is going to make the other side instantly concede the entire debate.

ROTFL!

And yet, we have you. Who presents evidence that is shreded to pieces and that ends up hurting your arguments, and then say's we shouldn't over analyse things. Priceless.

And the rebutle in all that grand standing was, where exactly?

Aside from the dozen or more times it's already been shot down, you mean?

Utterly ignored would have been a more accurate response.

1. You don't take Spider-Man's speed into account. At all. Any argument woth a fuck would at least acknowledge the other character. You make it seem like this is a Jedi vs. Spider-Man naked and tied to a tree. Before you can claim victory by giving ways for the Jedi to win, you have to prove they'd get a chance to pull any of those stunts off.

What part of 'Sees things before they happen' don't you understand? What part of TESB where A)Vader Force choked someone over a view screen, B) ripped machine components off a friekin wall (some of which were behind him, i.e. he couldn't see), didn't you comprihend. What was so hard to understand about Luke training on the Falcon with the blast shield down and saying to Obi-Wan 'I could see the droid', or Luke levitating rocks and Yoda raising the X-Wing with their eyes closed?

They don't need to 'see' their targets, they just need a general idea of where they are, the force shows them and obeys their commands. So Yoda thinks 'Raise X-Wing' and the Force does it!

Also in Shadow's of the Empire Luke fights Yuri (spell) Xizor's assasin droid, since she wanted to test herself against a Jedi (she moves too fast for the human eye), during the battle Luke sees her moving 'like she is fighting in mud', giving him ample time to move out of the way.

2. You assume that the Jedi would know to remove the webshooters before it is too late. You give no reason to assume that.

Three points. One, which should be basically obvious to any fool, is that during a vs debate is a general accepted premise that both sides know about their opponents abilites. Othewise it becomes one side claiming X would do this (since Y doesn't know about it), and Y side saying, but, but...

Two, say it with me, PRECOGNITION. A Jedi sees things before they happen. They can sense an assasin droid in a Senator's room even though she is blissfully an-aware.

And, three (this actually validates point one), turn the question around, how is Spiderman going to know about TK before it's too late? Moron.

3. Force TK has always been displayed as the Force-user needing to get a bead on the target or object. They seem to reach out and grab with their minds, same as they would their hand. If the Jedi couldn't get a bead on Spider-Man, it's quite possible he wouldn't be able to grip him with TK.

See previous points. A Jedi needs to 'see' the object inside his/her mind. They need to visualise it, and then they go from there. They visualise the object ripping off a wall, it does so. They visualise an object floating out of the water it does so.

4. Even if the Jedi pulled this off, Ben could whip out his spider-stingers, which although possibly not powerful enough to be a serious threat, could break the Jedi's concentration enough to lose his TK hold.

Again, if he is restrained, how does he accomplish this? I don't know how Ben 'whips out his spider-stingers' so you'll have to enlighten me. Does he command them mentally? If so, they could very well be a threat, does he actually have to physically have to grab and throw them?

Your argument was "Yoda pulled a gun from a guy's hand and levitated him, therefore this debate is over." Sorry, but that's barely worthy of a response.

Errr, actually it is. Since you all were all like 'No force chokes' this is the light side equivalent. See you.

[keflex]

It doesn't matter, Spider-Man can have a reaction speed of 0.000000000000000001 seconds, and it still won't matter, he still sees an attack coming AFTER it has been launched, where as the whole idea of precog is that the Jedi can see the attack BEFORE it has been launced.

Why do you have so much trouble comprehending this simple concept?

Please refer to my "Precog and Reflexes" topic.

[keflex]

It doesn't matter, Spider-Man can have a reaction speed of 0.000000000000000001 seconds, and it still won't matter, he still sees an attack coming AFTER it has been launched, where as the whole idea of precog is that the Jedi can see the attack BEFORE it has been launced.

Why do you have so much trouble comprehending this simple concept?

Please refer to my "Precog and Reflexes" topic.

Hate to quote myself, but also refer to my last post under the "Darth Vader vs Arthas" thread which clarifies the preceding post.

[Crazedwraith]

What part of 'Sees things before they happen' don't you understand? What part of TESB where A)Vader Force choked someone over a view screen, B) ripped machine components off a friekin wall (some of which were behind him, i.e. he couldn't see), didn't you comprihend. What was so hard to understand about Luke training on the Falcon with the blast shield down and saying to Obi-Wan 'I could see the droid', or Luke levitating rocks and Yoda raising the X-Wing with their eyes closed?

What part of "spider-mans sees things before they happenAND has faster reflexs." do you not understand?
Luke didn't say he could see the droid he said he could "almost see the remote"

[Vympel]

What part of "spider-mans sees things before they happenAND has faster reflexs." do you not understand?

Spider sense is NOT precognition idiot. It alerts him to a VAGUE sense of danger, it cannot be used to see the future, which depending on level of skill can be seconds ahead (untrained Anakin) or at least hours/days (Yoda).

Luke didn't say he could see the droid he said he could "almost see the remote"

And this hurts Crown's argument ... how? He was being trained for approximately oh .... a few hours, and he could ALREADY sense where the remote was going to shoot! Fuck me dead, nitpicking dumbasses- Crown raised a plethora of examples, including Vader hurling objects at Luke he *couldn't even see* in the middle of a lightsabre fight.

[Crazedwraith]

What part of "spider-mans sees things before they happenAND has faster reflexs." do you not understand?

Spider sense is NOT precognition idiot. It alerts him to a VAGUE sense of danger, it cannot be used to see the future, which depending on level of skill can be seconds ahead (untrained Anakin) or at least hours/days (Yoda).

Incorrect.

Not only can he sense the exact danger of an impending threat, but his spider-sense immediety triggers his amazing reflexes to help him avoid injury. He often avoids blows before they are actually thrown [/qoute]
Emphasis mine.

Luke didn't say he could see the droid he said he could "almost see the remote"

And this hurts Crown's argument ... how? .

conceded[/quote]

[Vympel]

Incorrect.

Not only can he sense the exact danger of an impending threat, but his spider-sense immediety triggers his amazing reflexes to help him avoid injury. He often avoids blows before they are actually thrown [/qoute]
Emphasis mine.

"Blows". As in fisticuffs. Not exactly a tranquiliser dart is it?

And, how will he be able to trigger his incredible reflexes to avoid an attack by a Jedi when said Jedi throws up a solid wall of force to block his escape- like Anakin did to Dooku in the canon AOTC novelization?